| Author | Message | ||
     Toniportray |
I hope someone can clear this up for me because it's really driving me crazy. I'm certain I haven't lost any parts anywhere, but I can't understand how the ramp assembly (connects to the clutch basket) has any grip with the clutch whatsoever. After trying to put the primary back together, I can't get the clutch to work. The adjusting screw assembly goes into the clutch basket and the little tabs line up to fit into the slot in the clutch. The retaining ring goes in and holds that part in place. Then, the ramp assembly (after putting the primary cover back on, goes over the adjusting screw assembly and ??? The only thing that holds the ramp assembly against the adjusting screw is a nut that threads onto the adjusting screw. So how does the movement of the clutch cable get transferred to the clutch? Is the only contact force between the ramp and the adjusting screw assembly the force of friction between the two pieces? That seems really stupid.. What's to keep the two pieces from just sliding alongside each other? I've noticed that when I pull the clutch lever now, the ramp won't move. It's like it's too tight or stuck somehow. If I loosen up the hex screw at all, then there isn't enough friction to keep these two peices together and the ramp assembly is just loose, and doesn't do it's job. A few times when I've pulled the clutch in, it just scrapes between the two pieces and now there are scratch marks on the adjusting screw assembly. This just doesn't seem right to me. Is the only thing keeping the two pieces together friction? If so, I can't understand why this setup doesn't fail all the time, especially when oil is splashing around everywhere during normal operations. Maybe someone can clear this up for me. Either somethings wrong with my setup or this is a design flaw. Thanks ahead. | ||
| Ezblast |
Tony - are you following the manual? The hex screw is to be turned back 1/4 turn from very light bottom. Email me. EZ | ||
| Berkshire |
The ramp assembly is not supposed to have any "grip" with the clutch - there's no friction or mechanical connection between the ramp assy and the clutch. The clutch is spinning at primary drive speed during operation, whereas the inner ramp doesn't move. The clutch is disengaged by tightening - like tightening a nut on a bolt. Pulling the hand lever pulls the cable and then the tiny lever on the outer ramp. Twisting the outer ramp makes the ramp assembly "thicker". Since the nut on the adjusting screw holds it all together, the only place for the "extra" thickness to go is inward. This squeezes down on the center of the diaphram, which releases the clutch. | ||
| Gbaz |
hey i have a question on adjusting the primary... the adjustment screw is so tight that it turns the jam nut when i try to turn it. is this supposed to happen? i thought u loosend the jam nut then the adj screw should turn almost freely untill it was adjusting the chain, but i back off the jam nut and the thing will not turn by its self. i have the service manuel, but i think im missing something or just not looking at this the right way. as it is i have the wrong torque wrench so i cant do the adj untill i borrow one... | ||
| Buellistic |
the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL is not correct and the guess adjustments are not correct either !!! | ||
| Luckyduck |
Gbaz, It should not be tight. Spec is 24 INCH pounds and then out some number of flats. Once you back off the jam nut it should spin easy by hand. When I adjust, I back the lock nut all the way out so that the screw turns freely. Then thread it in with fingers until it just touches the chain and back it out 1/8" from there and lock it down. Some people back it off less, some more and some people use a different way to find when it is just touching the chain, and some use the torque value. The factory service manual is WAY off on how tight it should be. I followed it and had to replace the presser foot thing after 4000 miles. Now that I started that, lets talk oil and break in  Actually there are lots of posts about it and a little test that is in the archives. Comparing the different methods. Paul | ||
| Gbaz |
ok, so the fact that the adjustment screw will not turn by hand with the jam nut backed off is not normal... i back it off and then need to use a wrench to hold it to get the adj screw to turn. | ||
| Swampy |
No, the lock nut is interference fit on the adjusting bolt. You will need to have two wrenches one to hold the adjusting bolt head and one to turn the lock nut. Run the lock nut down the adjusting bolt towards the adjusting bolt head then back the adjusting bolt out. Make your adjustment. Then with the two wrenches, hold the adjusting bolt and tighten the lock nut. (Message edited by swampy on March 06, 2008) | ||
| Gbaz |
cool, thanks for the clarifacation. ill give it a try after work today. then try to decide which method to use. i was going to go 24 inch lbs and 9 flats. but without a torque wrench i may use the turn till u feel the chain method... lol | ||
| Swampy |
You probably won't feel the chain but you will hear the chain. Also, has the spacer been previously removed? As something to point out, from the factory the primary chain adjuster has a spacer in it to prevent too tight of an adjustment until the first service. If you notice how far out the adjuster is before the spacer is removed and then again after the spacer is removed, there is a big difference. They come very loose from the factory and will operate very nicely when adjusted on the almost too loose side of the adjustment. If you are going to adjust it wrong, adjust it too loose, as adjusting it too tight will cause you all sorts of operating problems and cause premature wear on the primary drive train components. | ||
| Gbaz |
nope, no spacer. so it was adjusted at some point. i wonder if they changed the fluid at the same time. i already have the pegs off so im changin it again any way. | ||
| Xgecko |
Honestly the best way I've done it was tuning by ear...you really can hear when it's in the right placejust by putting the bike in Neutral and adjusting the bolt...loose makes lots of noise and tight changes RPM's | ||
| Buellistic |
knowledge is what we all strive for, "BUT" there are those in control ... | ||
| Ezblast |
Question - always trying to figure stuff out - its what I'm famous for - your primary adjustment - that you mention in your profile - the question is - especially with you being a mechanic - is the adjustment/measurement done inside the case or from the outside? From your profile - for a tuber (note - tuber and Blast tranny are almost the same except for the trap door - which we miss!)  1) Adjust primary chain 3/4" cold(on tight spot) Is this what you are talking about? EZ | ||
| Swampy |
I whould think that is what Buellistic is talking about because I think he put the XB primary cover on his Blast. | ||
| Ezblast |
Thats just it - we don't know - thats why the innuendos are old - a simple explanation would be enough - but do we get it - no - just insults - as I said - its old now - like a 3 year old repeating every thing you say type of thing - lol - EZ | ||
| Buellistic |
have tried to tell how to !!! it is some where in the ARCHIVES ??? maybe that is one of my posts that you "DELEAT'ED", "NOT KNOWING what "i" was talking about!!! | ||
| Ezblast |
When too tight it causes heat, premature failure of stator, premature wear on Primary/Motor Sprocket Bearing/Clutch Bearing/Trans. Mainshaft components ... The BLAST has a idiot proof/bullet proof Primary setup, "BUT" not Harley-Davidson technician proof ... The screw/locknut is not an adjuster, but an shoe stop adjuster ... It has a Spring Tension set up which is very good ... If the Spring is in the hole fartherest it will hold the chain too tight ... If in the hole closest to the chain it will be closer to correct ... The best way(NOT THE SERVICE MANUAL WAY) to adjust is to screw the Shoe Stop in untill finger tight and measue its lenght ... NOW back out unitl it is 3/4 inch longer ... The reason "i" say do it this way is there is not way to find the TIGHT SPOT in the CHAIN as there is "NO" chain inspection cover ... There is a Plastic Piece in the Primary Cover that keeps the Primary Chain from hitting the cases if the Primary Chain Shoe Stop adjuster is incorrectly adjusted ... This Plastic Piece should be removed and discarded as it will eventually brake and fall into the chain ... "i" bypassed all the above "BUELLschitte" by simpley putting on an XB Primary Cover and chain adjuster assembly so "i" could adjust my chain to 3/4 inch on the tight spot throught inspection cover ... In BLASTing LaFayette Is this what you are talking about - in the Alternative View section. EZ | ||
| Buellistic |
you are "INFAMUS"(is what I'm famous for) on this one as you have not "FIGURED IT OUT YET" !!! | ||
| Ezblast |
Sigh - so far nothing that helps - pass on, pass on... | ||
| Buellistic |
the primary chain adjustment on a OEM Primary Cover BLAST is so simple a CAVEMAN could do it the correct way ... | ||
| Ezblast |
So please - you have center stage - tell us your method. EZ | ||
| Reuel |
If he doesn't answer, can we delete him?  | ||
| Buellistic |
"i" wore BROWN SHOES !!! | ||
| Reuel |
And my wife is hot! This isn't getting us anywhere. | ||
| Buellistic |
that just means you do not know how to adjust the BLAST Primary Chain correctly either ??? | ||
| Ezblast |
Please folks - no feeding the Trolls! lol EZ | ||
| Luckyduck |
Ok, be nice everyone. Back when I was having all my primary issues, this is the "bagged cat" method I got from Lafeyette to try. Measurements on how different methods vary is on a post of mine in the archives somewhere from last fall.Sorry for publishing it, but it had to be done. My comments are in quotes and have PdO after them to distinguish my editorial from the original instructions. The Blast has a built in chain tensioner, ie: SPRING,chain tensioner PN 24349-00Y which keeps a slight tension on the when going forward, BUT when backing off it lets it loosen to its maximum play ... The early SHOE,chain adjuster PN39946-00Y had two holes for aditional tension of Spring,chain adjuster PN24349-00Y and in one of the holes it made the SHOE "TOO TIGHT" and the later ones had only one spring hole as the FACTORY some how figured this out ... >>>>>>>> The only way to prove that your primary adjustment is too tight is to take the PRIMARY COVER PN 25521-00Y off and look at the SHOE,chain adjuster PN 39946-00Y and look at where the chain rubs on it ... If the chain has or is wearing into the SHOE,chain adjuster, it has or is being adjusted TOO TIGHT ...(Mine was tightened to Buell manual specs and worn thru to the webbing in 4k miles. PdO) >>>>>>>> The CHAIN GUIDE PN 39934-00Y in time will deteriorate and fall into the primary chain(the XBRR as a chain guide also and this PART should be removed) ... Left mine out !!! ( I kept mine. PdO) >>>>>>>> Now lets get to the task at hand, adjusting the primary chain as CORRECTLY (or most precisely. PdO) as possible with this system !!! >>>>>>>> 01) Get the rear wheel off the ground(as in standing the bike straight up) .... (I used a rod thru the axle and 2 milk crates. PdO) >>>>>>>>> 02) Remove the SPARK PLUG, this is so the engine can be turned over with the rear wheel ... >>>>>>>>> 03) Rocking the transmission gears with the rear wheel, put the transmission in 5th gear(as not to damage the transmission) ..(This makes sense when you do it. PdO) >>>>>>>> 04) Back off NUT 7/8"(lock), chain adjustment bolt PN 7804 all the way out to the end of the threads of the BOLT,chain adjustment PN3301Y holding the BOLT with a 1/4"allen... (or a wrench. PdO) >>>>>>>> 05) Now to find the Primary Chain tight spot ... >>>>>>>> 06) Back out(counter clock wise) the BOLT,chain adjustment PN 3301Y(to take all tension off the Primary chain ... >>>>>>>> 07) NOW slowly turn(clock wise) the BOLT,chain adjuster with a 1/4" allen PN 3301Y and ease it in to take the tension out(finger tight) of the Primary Chain ... (if you use your fingers, you can feel the bolt contact the bottom of the shoe. PdO) >>>>>>>> 08) Measure the length of the of the BOLT,chain adjuster from Primary Case PN 25521-00Y to the end of BOLT,chain adjuster with a small machinists ruler or just a ruler that the measurement can be made with and write the measurement down ... (you want at 1mm divisions at the largest, .01" is better yet. PdO) >>>>>>>>> 09) Back off out(counter clock wise) BOLT,chain adjuster PN 25521-00Y to take tension off Primary Chain ... (about a full turn works good. PdO) >>>>>>>>> 10) Turn engine over with rear wheel and REPEAT NUMBERS 06 thru 10 until(10 times is good enough) you get the longest measurement of BOLT, chain adjustment ... Use the rear wheel valve stem as a reference and rotate one turn each time to get proper length of adjusted bolt ... (a statistical sample size of 10 with one wheel rotation giving a different spot on the primary chain for each measurement. It is likely that this will get you the actual tightest spot. They do actually vary quite a bit. PdO) >>>>>>>>> 11) When you have done this the longest measurement is where the BOLT is at IT'S longest, you have now found the TRUE TIGHT SPOT of the PRIMARY CHAIN ... >>>>>>>> 12) NOW BACK OUT(counter clock wise) the BOLT, chain adjuster PN 25521-00Y from its longest length (as found in step 11) and add an additional 1/8 inch which will give you 3/4 inch chain play in reality ... >>>>>>>> 13) Hold the BOLT,chain adjuster PN 25521-00Y in place with the 1/4" allen and tighten the NUT 7/8"(lock),chain adjuster PN 7804 ... >>>>>>>> 14) Put it back together as you are done with this adjustment ... >>>>>>>> NOW THIS IS A LITTLE TIME CONSUMING, "BUT" YOU GET A "ABSOLUTE CORRECT" ADJUSTMENT !!! >>>>>>>> (In doing this, it comes out as the bolt head is farther out than the "by ear" method. It is pretty close (.02", or 1 flat) from having the bike warmed up, backing the lock nut all the way out and then finger tighten to where you can just feel the chain follower shoe banging against the top of the bolt. Then back it out 1/8") There, now it is part of the public domain and I don't have to keep my part of the secret any more. Paul | ||
| Ezblast |
Thank you Paul - much appreciated - well Buellistic there is the magic method. Yet to most folks, perhaps this method is good enough - In doing this, it comes out as the bolt head is farther out than the "by ear" method. It is pretty close - .02", or 1 flat - from having the bike warmed up, backing the lock nut all the way out and then finger tighten to where you can just feel the chain follower shoe banging against the top of the bolt. Then back it out 1/8" - EZ | ||
| Gbaz |
just got the new exaust on and the primary adjusted. i backed the bolt out and screwed it in untill i felt it touch the chain then backed it out 1/2 a turn. test drove it and it feels fine, but still kind of sounds like a box of rocks bangin around in there. too loose too tight or just right? o and thanks for all the help on this. |
