G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Forum » Quick Board » Archives » Archive through November 16, 2010 » India? is nothing sacred anymore? » Archive through November 13, 2010 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Superdavetfft
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 02:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

can you believe this sh*t?

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2010/11/02/harle y-davidson-will-build-assembly-plant-in-india/

Harley Davidson Will Build Assembly Plant in India
by PAUL CROWE - "THE KNEESLIDER" on 11/2/2010
in MOTORCYCLE BUSINESS
As reported in July, Harley Davidson was considering building an assembly plant in India and they have now confirmed that they will be opening a factory there in the first half of 2011.

Harley-Davidson India has been importing completely assembled motorcycles from the Company’s U.S. final assembly plants. Once the Indian CKD assembly facility in the Indian State of Haryana is operational, Harley-Davidson India will import CKD kits for select current models, consisting of components produced by Harley-Davidson’s U.S. plants in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Missouri and by the company’s suppliers. Indian employees at the Haryana facility will then assemble the components into finished motorcycles. Other models will continue to be imported as completely built motorcycles for now.

The announcement is absolutely no surprise due to the very high import tariffs in India, along with a growing market for the big bikes. Harley expects the lower prices resulting from assembling the bikes there will stimulate demand even further. The Indian plant will be Harley's second outside the U.S., Harley Davidson has had an assembly plant in Brazil since 1999.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firebolt020283
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 02:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I heard talk of this before but those bikes will only be for India not the U.S.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sayitaintso
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 02:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not a big surprise....build 'em where you're gonna sell 'em.

They seem to think that there is huge demand for HDs in India. Time will tell if they're right or not. I'm just glad none of my money is being used to fund that gamble. I'd be more likely to gamble on China than I would on India.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Swordsman
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"I heard talk of this before but those bikes will only be for India not the U.S."

For now. Sounds to me like the first step toward India-built Harleys being imported, which would help H-D's financial hemorrhaging. They won't advertise when it happens, of course. It'll be hush-hush top secret.

Or maybe they'll come right out and admit that all Sportsters will be made in India, so you'd better buy a Street Glide instead.

~SM

(Message edited by Swordsman on November 02, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Aeholton
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 02:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I heard talk of this before but those bikes will only be for India not the U.S.

Until Harley goes under like Royal Enfield, then they will only be made in India.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Swordsman
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ha, great minds, Mr. Holton, great minds....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Superdavetfft
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 02:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

IMHO I view it as a first step... get an assembly foothold in place to get things started. Then they can address expanding it to a full manufacturing facility later on down the road at their leisure.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Firebolt020283
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 02:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think if that does happen it will be the nail in the coffin as far as Harley goes. I mean that is their motorcycles only selling point here in the states to me is that they are American made. Start building them else were and they will have a lot of die hards jumping ship for something else like a victory, Thus causing them to loose not only their core buyers but also the younger crowd they can't seem to sucker in right now.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rainman
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 03:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Didn't Triumph do that with the Bonneville? I think the engine and the bikes are made in Indonesia.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pwnzor
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ho hum...

Buy Victory motorcycles.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Swordsman
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Buy Victory motorcycles.

My thoughts exactly. I'm already trying to figure out some finances. Do money trees do well in a southern climate?

~SM
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hootowl
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

HD has two choices:

1. Build bikes in the US and have the retail price of their motorcycles well out of reach of the vast majority of their Indian customers because of the high import tariffs.

2. Do the final assembly in India and sell more motorcycles.

No brainer.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Greg_e
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The cow (water buffalo, etc.) is still sacred in India. So yes there still are a few sacred things in this world.

(Message edited by Greg_E on November 02, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brumbear
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 08:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

look deeply into my eyes your getting sleepy ....
Load a crap H-D is NO more I was wrong though I have been saying Madrass India for 3 years now.
SEE THEE NOW!!! I AM REVENGED AND YEE SHALL PERSISH!!!!!!
from the Buell scripture EB 1:1
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

46champ
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 08:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think H-D is going to assemble bikes in India for the same reason they assemble bikes in Brazil, import tariffs are high enough to warrant such action. Triumph's plant is in Thailand.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 09:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>import tariffs are high enough to warrant such action

There's a lot going on here . . . What if Harley-Davidson motorcycles were traded for Mangoes in exchange for relief from import tariffs and a significant easing of tough Indian emissions requirements.

How many Mangoes would that be worth?


quote:

Global automobile companies have lined up Indian roads taking advantage of the economic prosperity of the country. Harley-Davidson, the most iconic US motorcycle manufacturer is a prospective entrant into the Indian market. Earlier, Harley-Davidson bikes were restrained from entering India due to stringent emission norms and high import duties. The emission norms were relaxed as part of a trade agreement between the US and India on April 13th 2007. However, the large bikes are haunted by high import tariffs in India that double the original price of the bikes. Further Harley-Davidson bikes also face competition from its Japanese counterparts who already have businesses in India. Although the Indian government offers different market entry options for foreign firms, Harley-Davidson has announced that it will enter India only through the import route. How and when Harley-Davidson will enter India is to be seen.





quote:

Harley-Davidson uses mangoes to finally ride into India

Iconic US motorcycle manufacturer Harley-Davidson is finally riding, none too easily, into India ending almost five years of vacillation where even mango exports to the US were used as sweeteners to the deal.

The reason for this five-year delay is India’s protectionist strategy of charging 60 per cent import duty plus 30 per cent local taxes for luxury vehicles such as Harleys. With other sundries, this more than doubles the price of a high-quality product and Harley-Davidson has effectively failed to get this tariff removed, even by using highly imaginative methods.

In 2007, US Trade Representative Susan Schwab met her Indian counterpart Kamal Nath who agreed to give access to Harley-Davidson to the Indian market in exchange for the export of Indian mangoes to the US, but still refused to back down on import duty.

Even so, the company has now appointed five dealers in Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Chandigarh and Hyderabad, and is taking orders later this month for delivery in June. Total import duties will be 110 per cent of the cost price as the bikes will arrive as Completely Built Units (CBUs) and the company seems confident there is a market here for its bikes.

This is because the Indian motorbike market is in utter overdrive and is driven by Harley’s superbike competitors Suzuki and Hero Honda. India represents the world’s second-largest motorcycle market behind China, and motorcycle sales in India for 2009 reached 8.78 million units (up 19 per cent compared to 2008).

Harley-Davidson will be expecting top Bollywood stars to snap up its full range of bikes including the Fat Boy and the Electra Glide, the latter even has a reverse gear, that with import duty will cost in the region of $80,000.

But there may be a different story to this deal. Once barriers to market such as high import duties are overcome, that’s where the real bargaining starts… and this time it won’t be mangoes.

To this point, India’s most famous motorcycle brand has been the Royal Enfield, an absolutely beautiful design classic that has seen its market share dwindle as younger and affluent bikers prefer more sporty models such as those continually advertised on TV by Suzuki and Hero Honda, the latter being a company that is split between India’s Hero and Japan’s Honda.

As the initial batch of Harleys that are coming to India as the aforesaid CBUs and have attracted such onerous import duties, the answer may lie in the delightfully named Complete Knock Down (CKD) policy, which means Harley may decide to import the par by Royal Enfield, bringing the import duty down to 60 per cent instead of 110 per cent.

For Royal Enfield this is a business opportunity it may not be able to turn down, but for Royal Enfield enthusiasts also known as Enfieldwallahs this may be a hard turn to bank, but it may be inevitable for everybody involved. An Enfield Harley just doesn’t sound right though, or perhaps they should just call it the Harley Mango.




By the way . . there is MUCH more to this and to really appreciate the dynamics you need to know quite a bit about both Susan Schwab and Kamal Nath. How many $80,000 bikes they will sell remains to be seen and . . in my personal opinion, import tariffs and emissions are the least of their problems.

(Message edited by court on November 02, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kc10_fe
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 09:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

India can afford Harleys thanks to Americans jobs being shipped there. When can I expect the dirka dirka model APU1999XLSlurpee
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Danger_dave
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Electra Glides have reverse gear?

My friend Chris has been Auckland's sole Enfield dealer for about 9 months now.

I think he's yet to sell one.

Deus Ex Machina stole that market with funky old skool custom bikes.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 10:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>>Deus Ex Machina stole that market with funky old skool custom bikes.

I think that HD has underestimated Hero Honda

Be mindful that Honda Japan makes more bikes in a week than HD makes in a year and announced they intend to vigorously defend the Indian market.

Could be a bloodbath.

In Keith We Trust
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gregtonn
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 10:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Electra Glides have reverse gear?"

Yes Dave they do but you have to go back several decades to find one.

G
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Cityxslicker
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

for 80K and a box of mangos, I would sell them my sporty ; )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blk_uly
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Then they'll have another new model to sell
They'll call it "THE INDIAN"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Iamarchangel
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I believe the Royal Enfield distributor here went bankrupt fixing the warranty issues.

Maybe not a good indicator but one I'd keep in mind if I was going to buy one.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Nik
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - 10:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Didn't Triumph do that with the Bonneville? I think the engine and the bikes are made in Indonesia.

Thailand. Street triple too. Basically once a model has all the production bugs worked out of it they send it to their Thai factories. A lot of the raw engine components (castings/forgings) come from there too.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fahren
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - 11:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They will still have that distinctive, air-cooled, v-twin sound, though - you know the one: "papadam-papadam".....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Prof_stack
Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2010 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The sound of an Indian Harley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyle2CuDgIo
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Prof_stack
Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2010 - 12:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"I believe the Royal Enfield distributor here went bankrupt fixing the warranty issues..."

Nope, very much alive and thumping: http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/

2010 Enfield Bullet Classic
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2010 - 10:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>> India can afford Harleys thanks to Americans jobs being shipped there.

Are you kidding me? Any idea what pay the customer support operators in India earn? Or the software folks?

Guess. I dare ya.

Remember when Buells were being assembled in Brazil? Was that because of American jobs being shipped to Brazil?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Roadcouch98
Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2010 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe Our Illustrious Leader is going on vacation to India to buy a New Harley.

And for what the cost to the American Taxpayer is looking like, he could buy several Dealerships as well as Manufacturing Plants for the cost of the 'tips' alone.

Just a thought.

(Message edited by roadcouch98 on November 04, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Danger_dave
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2010 - 12:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Some holes in this report (100 year company) - however:

http://sify.com/finance/uks-triumph-motorcycle-con siders-india-entry-news-equity-klnclCcdjcg.html
« Previous Next »

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration