| Author | Message | ||
     Swordsman |
Sure, I get 50mpg on average, which is great, but after hearing some of the predictions on the news this morning about the future cost of gasoline, it got me thinking. There are several maps available for more power, so can a map be fashioned for better economy? It'd be great to load up the thrifty-map for daily commuting, then load the fun map for weekends. I'm not really sure how it all works, so I thought I'd ask some of you ECM-mapping gurus out there. Thanks! ~SM | ||
| Mnbueller |
I just wanted to pop in and say I also would be interested in an economy map. Sounds like a great Idea. My thought is though, even if there is one, or someone would take the time to develope one, it probably isn't going to improve that much, maybe 2-3 mpg. Which you could also get by, losing weight, hunkering down on the fuel take to elimintate some wind drag. Add more air in your tires to reduce rolling resistance (Note this will also decrease traction). Ride at a slower speed (I'd say around 50-55 mph will give you the best MPG. | ||
| Swordsman |
Agreed. There are several things one could do to increase mpg. However, if Buells are anything like most cars, the factory fuel map is the best "compromise" between power and fuel economy. That would lead one to believe that there was some wiggle room in BOTH directions in terms of tuning. ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on April 28, 2008) | ||
| Xl1200r |
It doesn't quite work like that... at least as far as I know... You need to have the right amount of gasonline for the given amount of air entering the engine, otherwise you're either going to be lean or rich, neither of which is very good. To get better MPG, you'd be leaning towards lean which is the worse of the two, and lead to a lot more and more serious problems. To better fuel economy, you need to limit the amount of air entering the engine, and with it the gas will be less as well. Accelerate slowly, keep your speed down, etc. Unless you want to swap out throttle bodies, there isn't much you're going to be able to do engine/ECM wise I don't think. Someone may prove me wrong, so let's see... | ||
| Punkid8888 |
How about a map for 87 octane? I bet its possible, but probably require adding more fuel, and eliminating some timing. In the end it would be interesting to see if the end result would be worth it. I know Hypertech has a plug-in reflasher for gasoline trucks that maximizes power and fuel economy while still using 87 octane. | ||
| Dmhines |
I agree ... an 87 octane tune would be nice ... less power but cheaper gas ... | ||
| Xl1200r |
Not sure about that either - what octane an engine needs is controlled as much by the timing as it is by the compression ratio. I'd be willing to bet that adjusting the timing to the extent needed to run 87 octane in our engine for all conditions (read: high temps) would result in an even less effecient engine. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Throttle. Stop. They use them on race bikes to limit HP; I'm sure something similar would be usable on street bikes to "lock out" that last 1/4 of throttle position or so. | ||
| Mnbueller |
87 Octane price vs MPG and efficiency Minnesota 87 = 3.38 @ 50mpg = 0.0676 cents per mile @ 48mpg = 0.0704 cents per mile @ 47mpg = 0.0719 cents per mile 92 = 3.58 @ 50mpg = 0.0716 cents per mile At a 20 cent price difference in fuel, if you could get the same MPG, you would save 74 cents per tank. Which if you drove 4000 miles in a year you'd save around $20 in fuel costs for the year.....Starts to not really sound worth it to me... | ||
| Jayvee |
The 87 octane is cheaper, but before I had cooling problem on my car, if I ran premium or even Mid-grade the temp guage was like 1/8" lower temperature. Later I read that Premium really does run cooler. So if it's a really hot day, I don't think I'd want to run 87 octane in my Buell. I'd rather run it cooler. Easiest way to save gas is just slow down, shift early, keep the revs low. You could always put on a 28 front sprocket too. BDL brand makes them in aluminum. | ||
| Swordsman |
Locally, there's a 15 cent difference between grades, so Premium is 30 cents higher than regular per gallon. That's with gas prices averaging $3.55 per gallon for Regular. Within the next 4 years, the projected price of Regular in the USA is $7 per gallon. Considering the price nearly doubled just in the past 12 months, this seemingly ridiculous projection might very well become a reality, and all too soon. I won't care what fuel grade will be required, so long as I can squeeze every penny out of it. THAT'S the reason I'm curious about this stuff, and looking for ideas. Reducing the intake and adjusting the fuel accordingly sounds like it would probably have the greatest impact. I like the sprocket idea too... I may look into that. ~SM | ||
| Xl1200r |
If this is big concern of yours for your bike, I'd consider getting something other than a Buell. Buells already get astronomical mileage rates, especially for their engine size. But if you need better, consider a Vespa, lol. In all seriousness, you're talking about making MARGINAL gains at best. Is re-engineering the engine worth saving $130 a year? (7,000 miles a year, $4 gal, going from 50 mpg to 65mpg = savings of $130/year) | ||
| No_rice |
i just told the gf the other day that we shouldnt have sold her 01 blast when we got her the 04. then i could have ridden that as my work bike at 70mpg instead of my 9 at MAYBE 45mpg or my 1125 at 24 mpg. if she isnt riding her 04 some days this summer i am sure i will probably ride it. not the same fun factor, but still fun non the less. | ||
| Hogs |
Just drop the Morning Coffee, Then ya just save 1.25 a day for 365 days== 456.25 dollars savings.. and enjoy Your buell as is and you are in Money and better for your Health,...!  | ||
| Nik |
Buells already get astronomical mileage rates, especially for their engine size. But if you need better, consider a Vespa, lol. My Buell gets the same or slightly better gas milage than my vintage Vespa.. and it takes premium too. Needless to say its not getting much use right now. Most people I know with new ones report mid 50 mpg figures with typical use. "Vespanomics"..pfft BUEconomicaLL | ||
| Swordsman |
"In all seriousness, you're talking about making MARGINAL gains at best. Is re-engineering the engine worth saving $130 a year? " Actually, using your numbers, it'd be ~$230 a year, calculated for $7/gallon "future" gas. Which again is the whole reason I'm looking. Modifying what I have will be cheaper than trading in or selling/buying. You always lose money that way. This was all just for curiosity's sake... 50 mpg is FANTASTIC. I was just wondering how much I could milk it.  ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on April 28, 2008) | ||
| Beachbuell |
Yes, its called stock. Keep your bike in its factory/oem setup. | ||
| Odinbueller |
The OEM mapping is quite efficient, attempting to achieve 14.6 to 1 air/fuel ratio in closed loop operation. I wouldn't mess with that at all, as to go leaner means things heat up more, and then things begin to fail or melt. An air cooled higher compression motor, such as the XB motor, NEEDS 91 octane minimum, as lower octane rating may lead to pre-ignition, and again, premature component failure in your power train. If your motor is running 8 to 1 compression, then 87 octane is absolutely sufficient. 10 to 1 needs a gas that can tolerate more squeeze, especially at the higher engine temps we run. If you keep it stock, you should have no problems. Chris | ||
| Teddagreek |
Have you guys seen some of these new liter bikes have selection from three power modes... I don't know enough about them to know if the lower power mode gives you better MPG but it would be cool.. | ||
| Jcbikes |
When I cruise at 75 or 80, a bit lower RPM might help with gas mileage. Is it possible to gear a 04 xb12s a little bit higher other than going to chain? | ||
| Xl1200r |
Jc - I've read reports by some on here that actually using 4th gear on the highway nets better mileage. I don't like running the engine that high, so I haven't tried it yet, but it's worth a shot. The same would be true for putting 9 gearing in a 12. | ||
| Swordsman |
"I've read reports by some on here that actually using 4th gear on the highway nets better mileage. " That would seem to defy all logic.....?  John, Jayvee mentioned an aluminum front sprocket from BDL that would help lower RPMs. The stock transmission pulley for the 12's is a 27-tooth. BDL offers a 28, 29, and 30 tooth replacement. Found it here: http://www.beltdrives.com/tp.htm ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on April 28, 2008) (Message edited by Swordsman on April 28, 2008) | ||
| Xbswede |
The Buell MAP will adjust itself to run 14.7:1. So even if you tune it lean for cruising the system will adjust itself to run 14.7:1 until it runs out of adjustment in closed loop. If someone is getting better mileage in 4th it could be that their open loop is too Lean.  I think the Fuell consumption on the XB is about as good as it's going to get without risking engine damage over time. If timing is off (low)it could cause your consumption to be higher. Playing with timing adjustment may help within ECM SPY to get a more thorough fuel burn. | ||
| Hogs |
Swordsman, Do you mean from these guys? http://www.beltdrives.com/tp.htm Just wonder IF they will work on the Xb`s and also IF ya can still use the stock rear belts? btw.. How many teeth on the stock Trans pulley if anyone knows off hand? (Message edited by hogs on April 28, 2008) | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
I once ran a tank non-stop through my bike in 5th gear at 55 mph in stock trim. It got 64 mpg. Now I'm modded out to the max (without going into the engine or gearing - see profile) and when duplicating this trip, she still gets about 60 mpg. The way I normally ride it at 75-80 mph, she still gets mid 50's. If I flog the crap out of her in the twisties (up and down the rpms all day), she gets about 45 mpg. Looks to me like she's pretty responsive to how the bike is ridden and can deliver an acceptable amount of economy if the rider wants. I'm happy with that, considering my alternative is a Chevy 4x4 that gets about 18 mpg on the highway running down hill with a tail wind. I don't even want to talk about what kind of mileage she gets running around town playing grocery-getter. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
What!? I run 75-80mph in 5th and get 38-40mpg.....man.......... i was tricked! (Message edited by spacecapsule1 on April 28, 2008) | ||
| Hogs |
Subject: The price of gasoline, and how to savor it. FYI... From someone who lives in California and works in the gasoline industry: I learned some new things...and as much as we all drive I thought this would be helpful. TIPS ON PUMPING GAS I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline.... but here in California we are also paying higher, up to $3.50 per gallon. But my line of work is in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some tricks to get more of your money's worth for every gallon.. Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose , CA we deliver about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the pipeline. One day is diesel the next day is jet fuel, and gasoline, regular and premium grades. We have 34-storage tanks here with a total capacity of 16,800,000 gallons. Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations have their storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays an important role. A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps. When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast mode If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3)stages: low, middle, and high. In slow mode you should be pumping on low speed, thereby minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some other liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less worth for your money. One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF FULL or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have in your tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster than you can imagine Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, here where I work, every truck that we load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is actually the exact amount. Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the storage tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOT fill up--most likely the gasoline is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up some f the dirt that normally settles on the bottom. Hope this will help you get the most value for your money. DO SHARE THESE TIPS WITH OTHERS! WHERE TO BUY USA GAS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. READ ON Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it. It might even be good for us! The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We should return the favor. An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS. Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis. Nothing is more frustrating than the feelin g that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family, and my friends. I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern oil. These companies import Middle Eastern oil: Shell.......................... 205,742,000 barrels Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels Exxon /Mobil.............. 130,082,000 barrels Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels Amoco...........................62,231,000 barrels Citgo gas is from South America, from a Dictator who hates Americans. If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION! (oil is now $90 - $100 a barrel Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil: Sunoco..................0 barrels Conoco..................0 barrels Sinclair................0 barrels B P/Phillips............0 barrels Hess.......................0 barrels ARC0....................0 barrels If you go to Sunoco.com<http://sunoco.com/>;, you will get a list of the station locations near you. All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas buyers. It's really simple to do. Now, don't wimp out at this point.... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!! I'm sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)...and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) .. and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers !!!!!!! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it ..... THREE HUND RED MILLION PEOPLE!!! Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people How long would all that take? Judith Sparrow Director American Health Information Community (AHIC) Office of the National Coordinator for HIT 330 C Street, SW, Suite 4090 Washington, DC 20201 | ||
| Sparky |
I can't speak for the economy of doing the following, but I've ran a tank of 87 in my XB9 a couple of times. For the most part, like when just cruising, I couldn't tell the difference from 91. But when taking off from a stop or when asking for more oomph at lower rpms, I had to be careful and listen for pinging noise and then back off slightly. Well, maybe this backing off slightly just might have a positive effect on mileage. That's hard to figure but consider this: if you're not opening the throttle as much because of fear of pinging, would there be better mileage overall because of altering driving habits? Altering driving habits brings to mind an article in Reader's Digest about Hypermilers, those nerds who can wring 150 mpg out of basically stock autos. They drive like there's an egg between foot and gas pedal. There are many more techniques to achieving high mpg, but I certainly would not ride a motorcycle (or car) like that for fear of being punted off the road. But, being totally impressed and humbled by GM's fuel management engineering capabilities built into a certain LeMans Blue Corvette C6 (mine), that allows one to do dumb things like running 87 in a Corvette without harm, just a little less power and response mind you, I feel that in order to make running on less than 91 octane with an otherwise mechanically stock Buell, a knock sensor would have to be incorporated into the engine control algorithm. This is not a trivial nor cheap endeavor. But I would suggest to those who might consider running less that 91 consistency, to retard their timing by a couple of degrees and see how it goes. Just don't lug it and don't ask for max power. | ||
| Retrittion |
Last tank of gas: 47mpg, avg. rpm 3800-4000. If that is as "bad" as the mileage will get then I am not worried at all. If, as some predict, the price of gas goes above $5 a gallon in the US we will have bigger problems coming down the line. If it gets to $7 a gallon you will not need to worry about paying for gas because nobody will be able to afford it unless that price increase comes almost completely from inflation reducing the value of the US dollar, in which case we are sill buggered pretty good. I would suggest you plan for alternate fuel sources and engine types rather than ultra-efficient Buell engines. Either way, should be an interesting next few years. | ||
| Mtg |
The easiest and cheapest (free) method to increase mpg is just to change your riding style. Accelerate more gently Roll a little more speed through corners (so you don't have to accelerate as much back up to speed) Upshift earlier When you get to a canyon or backroad, all you have to do is twist the throttle more and you're instantly back into "power" mode. You'd be surprised at how much of a different riding style can make with mpg. Going from ripping canyon mode to high mpg riding style can give you 10 mpg difference. As proof, when I'm at a trackday I get mpg in the 20's, and recently commuting (last several tanks) I have been averaging 62 mpg. Those are the extremes, but definitely shows that riding style has a large impact on mpg. |
