| Author | Message | ||
     Gearheaderiko |
"the primary chain adjuster is not a tension adjustment, but rather a limiter"True, but I'm not sure that was ever in question? The next statement was usually the recommendation to back the adjuster bolt all the way out (or to that effect) and let the spring do all the work, which is a bad idea. The spring was never meant as a stand alone tensioner. I'm not saying you recommend that, but thats where it usually went. | ||
| Ezblast |
Concur! | ||
| Fast1075 |
I bet if you put on a clear cover and filmed the action of the chain and gears at speed, under load...even WITH the tensioner set way too tight the chain flops around like a fish out of water. I would never suggest that the spring tension alone is enough...I have seen ultra hi speed film of timing chains in auto engines that were TIGHT, TIGHT with the engine off...that did all sorts of gyrations at high rpm...bad enough that at times the gear rotation relative to each other would go backwards a few degrees relative to each other....the same set of film showed pushrods that looked like swimming snakes....ever see vid of an arrow when it is fired?? My original post was to help clarify some of the mystery and myth I have seen on the web about our motors. | ||
| Berkshire |
I'm going to run it with the rear axle on stands and this cover off and watch it!   | ||
| Berkshire |
Lafayette said something a while back about 3/4" - I guess I need to go look in the XB forum and read up on adjustment technique... | ||
| Reuel |
Give us a video of it in motion! | ||
| Berkshire |
that will have to wait - here's a new pic: I stopped at a gas station after adjusting the primary and riding about 40 miles, and noticed the adjuster was sticking way down, with oil dripping...  The adjuster was very loose feeling, and a close look revealed aluminum filling in between the threads, which was the remains of the threads from the primary cover, which was obviously stripped out!  I headed straight home with whatever oil was left in the transmission, and tried to ride in a way that wouldn't make the chain slap around - tomorrow I will discover the full extent of the damage... | ||
| Berkshire |
oh yeah - I forgot the moral of the story: don't overtighten the locknut on your primary adjuster, or else you could strip out the primary cover!!! The funny thing is, when I was tightening up the locknut, I THOUGHT it felt like it was pulling the threads out of the cover, but since that would have been highly inconvenient, I just quit tightening it and hoped it was just my imagination. ...hey - I'm an optimist! this is a damaged XB cover that I got "as-is" on ebay. I knew the threaded boss for the XB shifter was FUBAR, but I hadn't planned on "invisible" damage - I think the threads were already starting to pull off from previous overtightening. I'm hoping a helicoil will fix it. ...hey - I'm an optimist! | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Both have been fixed with Heli-coils, so you'll be fine! | ||
| Robi |
I tried to tighten primary to spec using a crows foot at a right angle to an inch/pound torque. I had to loosen the jam nut all the way down to the bottom of the tightening nut. From the sense of touch, I got no feel until the jam nut hit the bottom of the engine. I swear all of the 24 inch pounds were from the jam nut pressing against the engine. 4 1/2 turns out created some space between the jam and adjusting nuts. Does this sound normal? 0.320" or 0.345". what's it comparable to? Or f' it and stick EZ's sound method? Why do I not feel any tension as I hand tighten? Stupid question, but is it at all possible that HD never put the shoe back in? Or something else? Thanks | ||
| Milt |
I've got the same thing, Robi. | ||
| Ezblast |
Do you hear any unusual sounds from the primary - when I adjust the toy to speck and then loosen to my sound method - I'm usually out only eight extra flats, but I'm listening closely for those changes, then I stop and tighten down while holding adjuster nut in place. Usually there is some sound when the shoe is not there - the gentle lapping of chain on bolt, etc. EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
0.320"-0.345" is the space between the jam nut and adjuster bolt head. 24 inch lbs is next to nothing. Try that torque on a random bolt on your engine and feel how much it is. Its barely finger tight. My guess (as its happened before) is that you missed the very faint "click" of the torque wrench hitting 24 inch lbs (which is 2 ft lbs). If its been overtorqued at some time, the shoe may be damaged to the point where there is no adjustment left (or the shoe is gone). Or your chain could be very loose/stretched, If you do any part of the sound method, like adjust it to factory specs, then back the adjuster bolt out, you will here an audible difference of the tension being released from the shoe with a "clack,clack,clack". I could even hear it over my loud exhaust! FWIW: 4 1/2 "flats" out, per the manual, would be too tight. | ||
| Robi |
about over torquing. My neighbor and I debated. He brought up that the crows foot threw off the torque because it added length. I told him that from this website I learned the crows foot was "as good as I'd get" considering the exhaust. Does the crows foot make for over torquing or under torquing? I'll mess around with another bolt as you suggested. Have the air box off and K&N off drying from last night. I'll try the sound method today. | ||
| Johnnymac |
The simple fact is that a crow's foot DOES throw off the torque. Just how much I can't say. With the sound method it seems like it would be a vague way to "get it close" but you will know exactly when the chain tightens up because you will hear the idle change when you hit that exact point. Back off the recommended amount of flats and tighten the jam nut. It's really simple. While you may "get it close" using a torque wrench with a crow's foot, you really need to remove the stock exhaust to use that method accurately. If you try finger tightening you may find that you can tighten it all the way and never feel any change in bolt tension. The # of inch pounds is so slight that to me that makes the torque method very inaccurate (especially with a crow's foot) and I doubt you would get the same bolt position each time if repeated. For me the sound method is not only quick and painless but also right the first time and every time. But like most things, your results and opinion may vary. | ||
| Robi |
I agree. I ended up doing it by ear and believe it's there. I hear the idle and change in sound. I bought the torque from HF, and now try to get each bolt according to spec. I agree, especially with this primary chain adjustment, as directed, stick to the ear, and two crescent wrenches. be done with it. | ||
| Milt |
I cracked open my primary case today to investigate why the adjusting bolt seems to have no effect at all on my primary chain. (See my post and Robi's above). I found that even without any support from the adjusting screw, the chain seemed quite tight. It takes quite a bit of force to push the bottom part of the chain (and shoe) down. I'm not sure how to quantify this observation. This being the first time I've ever seen a primary chain, I need some advice: Is there anything remarkable happening here, or is this completely normal? It seems like changing the shoe would be really hard, considering how tight the spring is holding it. | ||
| Fast1075 |
The thing to remember is unlike an XB, Tuber or Sportster...the "adjuster" on a Blast is not an "adjuster"...it is a limiter...(on the other engines, the adjuster is set with the engine off to a specific amount of deflection of the chain as measured with the chain in the tight spot) On a Blast the spring on the shoe takes up the slack in the chain...the bolt limits how far down the shoe can move...the trick is to set the limiter bolt at the right spot so that under load, the shoe will not be deflected enough to allow the chain to slap around....yet not have it too tight.. You must be one with the chain...before I adjust mine, I sit in the lotus position and chant the matra....OHHHHHMMMMMMMMMM!!!! | ||
| Milt |
Thanks for the explanation, Fast. Now that you've put my mind at ease, it's time to put it all together again. So here comes another question: Do I install the gasket dry, or is it better to have a very thing coat of oil in the edge of the primary cover and crank case? My personal mantra lately has been "Doh!". I'm thinking of starting a thread of really, really dumb stuff I've done in the garage. It will be good for laughs, and besides - it may keep some other would-be mechanic from making the same mistakes! | ||
| Reuel |
Post it in the Blasters Are We section. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
NO oil on the gasket...but I may be too late. Usually only O-rings or rubber (or fiber) seals will get oil, rarely gaskets (certainly none that I can think of on the Blast). | ||
| Milt |
It's not too late! Thanks, Erik. | ||
| Ezblast |
 | ||
| Reuel |
Shall we have a section in the Blasters are We section titled "Really dumb stuff I've done"? | ||
| Milt |
Yes ! This site is wonderful at passing on the collective wisdom of the Blast community. Part of wisdom is recognizing what's dumb, and such a section might help others avoid mistakes and to improvise when things don't work out like the shop manual says they should. | ||
| Waterman53 |
At 56 I just got my first bike, a 2002 blast with about 7200 miles on it. From what I have read it should be a good bike to learn on. I am concerned though that things may not be quite right on it. I was assured when I bought it that all maintenance had been done, but just noticed the spacer was still on the primary chain adjuster. I just got a service manual for the bike and see it should have been adjusted a couple of times by 7500 miles. I have put about 300 miles on it in the past month or so and things just don't "feel" quite right. I have noticed you all being very helpful about what to do, and I am wondering what should I be doing to ensure I have a good experience with my first bike. So far I have found it to be very entertaining, everyone asks about the bike wherever I go. It has been de-badged and doesn't really say what it is. I am very open to suggestions as far as what to do. I have worked on cars all my life, but this is my first bike. | ||
| Ezblast |
Give it a total fluid change and filter, adjust clutch and then adjust clutch at cable then adjust primary - then ride the heck out of it and check oil very regularly, and your good to go! EZ | ||
| Waterman53 |
I had intended to change the oil and filter and had already picked up 4 quarts of amsoil 20w-50 v-twin oil. I see I can also use it for the transmission. I will pick up a filter and try to make the adjustments you recommended before the weekend. The bike has not had a single oil leak or used any oil since I got it, it is one reason I opted to get a bike with a few miles on it. I figured any major problem should have surfaced by now. Thanks for the advice! | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Reuel; as you wish: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/201 64/416324.html?1244691116 Waterman53: Many bikes have had all their services done and yet the spacer is still there.  It often gets overlooked and one reason we have very little faith in "the dealer" when it comes to Blast repair and maintenance. | ||
| Johnnymac |
Erik, if the spacer is still there then the bike hasn't had ALL it's services done. Fluids likely but not primary chain adjustment. Spacer = no primary chain adjustment. If primary chain was not adjusted then it is not safe to assume that all the other scheduled tasks have been done either. I would assume that it is safe to say only that if a dealer serviced a scheduled maintenance, then they changed the fluids and oil filter, nothing more. I don't understand how some dealers can sleep at night after bilking customers for shoddy service work The only way to be sure maintenance is done correctly is to do it yourself. Trusting that a dealer has performed all services when the spacer is still there is like trusting your child to the hands of a pedophile for a week in a secluded cabin deep in the woods. (Message edited by johnnymac on June 11, 2009) |
