| Author | Message | ||
     Ezblast |
Message sent. There is nothing hidden - but check carefully that you have remove everything - then slowly, carefully pry apart - once drained - lol GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Swampy |
The clutch adjustment screw? Also don't forget to get all the bolts out of the cover, is there not one in the center of the cover? Its's been a while since I have been outside(Did I tell you its snowing?) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
"just used my fingers until the bolt touched the bottom of the shoe and then backed out a half turn."You didnt just let the cat out of the bag on someones super secret primary adjustment method did you? | ||
| Buellistic |
Hammer,chizel,and pry bar - wrong tools !!! secret still safe !!! | ||
| Luckyduck |
GH: No, there is the more thoughtful way to do it, and that cat is still bagged. That was my "it is 32 outside and 40 in the garage and I am tired" method. Perhaps over the weekend I will do 4 or so methods of primary adjusting and measure the adjuster bolt sticking out to look at the differences. It is supposed to ice an inch and then snow 6 tonight and tomorrow, so I will have some home time. My 4 methods will be: 1. 24"lb and 4 flats out. 2. 24"lb and 8 flats out. 3. Fingers to touching and 1/2 turn out with engine warm and running. 4. The bagged cat method. Measurements will be done with calipers to nearest .001". Should be fun. I will try to get some pictures of my primary chain shoes to turn out to show what 24" lb and 7 flats out does. It wore the bottom shoe thru almost to the ribs in 2500 miles. Paul | ||
| Luckyduck |
Ok, I got all excited thinking about this and decided that I can make shoes tonight, but playing with the primary is easier in the day light. Here is a picture of a primary shoe after 4k miles. 1500 with the factory spacer and 2500 at 24 in-lb plus 7 flats out. A new one does not have the grooves. The grooves are .095" deep. The rough spots are where it is worn down to the webbing and chunks were pulled off.  SO, with that in mind here are the results. I did each adjustment 3 times and averaged my answers. The distances are between the bottom of the tight lock nut and the top of the bolt head. 1. 24 in-lb and 4 flats out: 0.190" gap 2. 24 in-lb and 8 flats out: 0.238" gap 3. Engine warm and running. Finger tight nut up to where you feel it touch the primary chain. Back off 1/2 turn to get 0.297". One full turn gives 0.320". 4. The cat in the bag method gives 0.345" To point out, a .05" difference in the primary adjustment can make a huge difference in shifting and noise. For the curious, I ended up putting it at .320" out to split the difference between the methods. The weather is ugly and getting worse, so I did not ride each combo. From experience 1 and 2 are bad. 3 at 1/2 turn is pretty good, but may still be a hair tight. Paul | ||
| Buellistic |
TOO TIGHT it was !!! | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
"Bagged Cat Method"  Thats a keeper! Great 'lab' work. Thanks for your contribution. | ||
| Ezblast |
It is preserved!  | ||
| Buellistic |
that is an +1/8" inch from the tight spot!! | ||
| Myrtleblast |
I have a question about adjusting the primary chain. I've been having some rough shifts into first and from first to second so i decided that a primary chain adjustment was in order. I got the spacer out (over 3k miles now)and tightened it but heard no change in idle. I loosened it approx. 3 flats and took it for a spin. I now have a little more torque and the shift from first to second is still just a little "rattley". By the way, is the bolt i'm supposed to loosen the one farthest away from the engine? is this okay or did i do something wrong? | ||
| Swampy |
Well if you took the spacer out you were on the right bolt. Did you have the engine running while you were adjusting the chain? You can back the bolt way off listen to it idle, then start tightening it till you can gear the primary making a different noise. You will hear a whirring noise when you get it too tight and the idle shoud start to slow. At that point you can back it off a bit(Depending how you feel about it, read the sections above) Also make sure the engine is warmed up enough so that it is off the fast idle but not so hot as the primary is hot also. | ||
| Reuel |
You should start from 9 flats away from tightened. | ||
| Robi |
Being lazy right now. Waiting to eat. Not searching. Can you adjust the primary chain with the back wheel off? (bearing setting in JB Weld) | ||
| Reuel |
Yup! | ||
| Robi |
I bought a inch/pound torque wrench. But I can't get a socket onto the limiting screw because of the exhaust. Do I need to remove the exhaust? Loosen the exhaust, and wedge it until there is room? Or are there torque wrenches shaped like flat combination wrenches (I'm not sure if that's the correct terminology, but I think it is. What I mean are the regular wrenches with an open end and a closed end). | ||
| Reuel |
There's an attachment called a crow's foot. Otherwise, drop the exhaust until you can get it in. | ||
| Ezblast |
Easiest way - sans torque wrench - ride bike around 1/2 hour till warmed up, and then idling on level ground - so wont roll and fall off kick stand, loosen primary till you hear a difference in sound then tighten till sound heard disappears, then keeping adjuster in that position - tighten locking nut. Your done. EZ | ||
| Robi |
I'll try that. To clarify, I will need to loosen the locking nut in order to loosen the primary, correct? Or does loosening the primary loosen the locking nut at the same time? | ||
| Swampy |
Robi, it is necessary to use two wrenches. One to hold the adjusting nut, the other to loosen the lock nut a few turns. The Lock nut is a Nylock(self-locking) and will interferr with the adjustment proceedings. Once you get the lock nut backed off a few turns you will have room to make the adjustment(probably with you fingers) then when you get it correct, hold the adjuster with one wrench to hold its position and tighten the lock nut with the other wrench. Good luck, report your progress. | ||
| Robi |
Will do. Any specific torque on the lock nut? Or because of the self locking property, is torque irrelevant? | ||
| Swampy |
There is a torque setting in the manual I am sure, but it just needs to be snug. | ||
| Robi |
I see only the torque specs for the chain limiting screw in the service manual, but I'll go by "snug." Berkshire provided a detailed explanation of the role the inner spacer played http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?20164/36619. I was wondering if the same could be presented for the primary chain. I have no idea what it does. I saw the pictures Themagster had on her website, and that gave me a better understanding of what is actually being "adjusted." But I'd like to know why I'm adjusting it and how the adjustment works. What happens when too loose, or too tight? I can then correlate the explanation to Themagster's pictures (great pictures by the way). http://www.whereismaggiemae.com/apps/photos/album. jsp?albumID=1600262 Thank you. | ||
| Reuel |
Too tight: Tension is increased against the shoe, causing increased wear and early failure of the shoe, as well as loss of power. Too loose: Chain flops around freely. I'm not sure what it'll cause. | ||
| Robi |
Thanks. | ||
| Robi |
OK. I hear nothing different as I loosen and tighten, except the rattle of the muffler. It sounds like the bike idles differently, but I can't really tell. How loose is loose? I see fluid coming from the hole. Please advise. Thanks | ||
| Ezblast |
Put your foot against the muffler so it can't rattle, then listen, keep listening till you hear any new noise, then tighten till noise disappears, then lock down - I can do it with the Force exhaust, so I know you can do it. EZ | ||
| Swampy |
you will get a whirring sound. Also you can change the idle as you tighten it up. | ||
| Robi |
OK, after the frustration of last night, I decided I needed to do a little reading through the forum. Including these two links: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/201 64/20737.html?1180218447 http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=20164&post=161370#POST161370 My current understanding is that as the adjustment screw is tightened, it pushes the shoe up against the chain and this causes the whirring noise. As it is loosened, this causes the box of rocks noise. I understand the primary chain to be what converts the power of the engine to the movement of the gears. Is this correct? I do not have an understanding yet of what the shoe does (besides touching or not touching the chain). I understand the technique of additionally backing the screw off after first touching the shoe, or in between the box of rocks noise and the whirring noise. However, last night I had a few problems: (1) noise of the muffler, but as noted above, I will try to quiet it with my foot. I was wondering if you suggest sliding a jack under there. (2) though I read people can do it, I was not able to adjust the primary screw with my hand. However, I may be misunderstanding this. Am I supposed to be able to hand adjust it while holding the locking nut in place? Or am turning both the primary screw and the locking nut with my hand? (3) I was working with 2 crappy/sloppy crescent wrenches, because my combination wrenches are too small. I’m waiting to see if my neighbor has larger ones I can borrower. (4) throughout this, I don’t remember being able to “feel” the screw touching the shoe, but maybe this will be resolved once I understand what I should be able to adjust by hand. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- Swampy: What do you mean by "you can change the idle as you tighten it up?" -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- Is the Crow’s foot used with the torque wrench? How does the torque of the ratchet accurately measured with the extra piece? Is a Crow's foot being used in Figure 1-23 on page 25 of the PDF Service Manual? (Also Figure 6-6 Page 256 of PDF) -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- Page 255 of PDF Service Manual, Figure 6-3: They call #2 in the diagram a "Chain Adjusting Nut," and #3 the "Chain Limiting Screw." Is the "Chain Adjusting Nut" the same thing as the Locking Nut? To verify, the Jam Nut = Locking Nut, which then = Chain Adjusting Nut (per above)? -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- Buellistic mentioned putting an XB Primary Cover on the Blast See: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/201 64/298901.html?1175187496 What’s the benefits of this? Is it as simple as a swap? Or are there additional modifications required? -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------- Ezblast said: "Loosen the jam nut all the way to the adjustment bolt head without turning the adjustment bolt . . ." I'm getting fluid "seeping" out as I loosen the jam nut. Does this mean I’m loosening the jam nut way too much? Also, in 2004 you recommended “cold” adjustment. Is this now superceded by the ½ hour warm adjustment? Are there times when cold is still recommended? Is it possible to have the bike too warm for adjustment? -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------- I had the bike up on a rear stand. I had it running after a ~ 12 mile ride home (in rush hour traffic), so it was definitely warm. Should I be able to shift through the gears (with clutch pulled in)? I think it's called "block shifting" in one of my books. I am having a hard time hitting the gears last night (though I was rushing my work). Or do I need to be actually riding to be able to block shift through all the gears? -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ Gearheaderiko says: "First gear should clunk (unfortunately). A long grind indicates incorrect clutch adjustment . . . " Does this include a "grind" when down shifting coming to a stop? I thought it was a good idea to shift to first as I came to a stop in case I had to get out of the way of something. However, as I get a grind when shifting into 1st coming to a stop, I am now leaving it in 2nd, stopping, then shifting to 1st. Is this grind an indication of needing to adjust the clutch? Or is it normal and I should not be shifting down to 1st until completely stopped? | ||
| Reuel |
Way too many questions at once! 1. Give it a try, but be careful as you increase the risk of tipping your Blast over. 2. The Jam Nut should be moved far enough away from the transmission so you can easily turn the bolt. All the way down is best, but not required, as long as the nut doesn't reach the transmission while you're turning the bolt. 3. Ok. 4. Try it with the engine off. Turn the bolt all the way in until you feel it get hard to turn while the jam nut isn't in the way. Go max 2-finger tight, then back it off 1.5 turns. That's a good starting point for using the sound method, or for some a good ending point for those who don't have a torque wrench and just don't want to bother that much to get it right. Crow's Foot: The torque wrench measures how many pounds are delivered one inch away from the center of rotation. If the crow's foot's center of rotation is 1 inch away from the center of rotation of the torque wrench, then you're at 2 inches. Therefore, if it's set for 24, you'll get 24 2-inch pounds, or 48 inch pounds. The best thing to do to keep the measurement accurate without having to worry about math is to put the crow's foot on the torque wrench at a 90 degree angle. It's not exact, but it's probably less of a change than the tolerance of your torque wrench. Every nut reference is to the same nut. Every screw/bolt reference is to the part with the threads that goes into the transmission.  Ya gotta ask Buellistic about the XB stuff. Send him a PM and ask for details, and come back here with stuff you don't understand. His modification includes a better set of adjusters inside, but I can't remember details. I've never had fluid seepage. It goes away when you jam the nut, right? If it says warm, warm is probably better than cold. No, it can't get too warm under normal operation for adjustment. Are you trying to shift while it's sitting still? You may have problems. With the clutch out, move the tire, then pull the clutch and shift while moving the tire. That should be easy if you have 3 hands. You grind when coming to a stop? I usually do fine if I shift to 1st under 20 MPH. It used to grind when it was new. Did you switch to the 20W50/15W50 synthetic oil in your transmission yet? If you need to get out of the way and you're still in 2nd, just throttle it and ease the clutch up. It'll go. It's a Buell, after all. I've started from 5th gear before! |
