| Author | Message | ||
     Gearheaderiko |
No, I cant think of any specific Harley tools you'll need. Of course if you decide to pull the head apart yourself, you'll need a valve spring compressor (but its not HD or even motorcycle specific). There may be the odd socket or allen wrench you'll need, but nothing real special. Do not remove the "Do Not Remove" bracket until you get the head off and find it actually has to be removed. Its not a big deal to put it back on, but its one of those things thats best left untouched if possible. | ||
| Torqupine |
I took all the little stuff off (carb, airbox, exhaust, horn) but there doesn't seem to be enough clearance between the lower rocker cover and the frame to get the upper rocker cover out. What other stuff do I need to unbolt to get at this thing? I have a floor jack handy. I don't have a hoist, but i can string it up from the rafters if need be. I don't have an allen wrench large enough for the front isolator mount, but i think I know where to get one tomorrow. Also, in the manual, the head screws look like a special bolt, like a 14 point star or something,will i need a special socket for that? | ||
| Crackhead |
yes you need a 14pt socket, i can't remember the size but it is part of the craftsman kit. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
You dont need a hoist, just a floor jack and a ratcheting tie down if you need your floor jack for something else (or want to roll the bike around). Do not pull the isolator apart, its very difficult to get it back together properly. Just undo the two bolts that attach the isolator assembly to the frame. 9/16" (look for the ground strap). You must support the engine before you unbolt them. The upper (middle) tie bar needs to be unbolted from the head (or frame). The lower (front) engine tie bar needs to be only loosened at the engine. Then you can lower the engine to get to the upper rocker cover bolts. While a special tool is available for those allen bolts, a box ratchet (or wrench) and an allen bit works well. Or just an allen wrench or.......Some convert those bolts to standard hex bolts. *You will notice that if you do not support the engine and leave it resting on the frame, it will flex the frame quite a bit. Its not a wise idea to move the bike around or leave it like this. Support the engine. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Head bolts are 12 point and I think 1/2". Rocker cover bolts are 3/16" (which is a standard size for most of the allen bolts on the engine). | ||
| Crackhead |
I couldn't remember the pt count, but my dad had the set from when he bought his big craftsman tool kit years ago. | ||
| Torqupine |
Yeah, i counted again this morning when my vision had cleared and there were only 12 points on my 14 point bolt. Glad to hear that's normal. I'm out in south Texas, an hour from anywhere. I might be able to find that 12 pointer when i go to town tonight I got the rockers off. I don't know exactly what I'm looking for in here, but I don't see anything obvious that could have caused that exhaust valve to bend. The spring on the exhaust side seems a bit lower than on the intake side. Both gaskets were pretty shot so I'm glad I'm getting that taken care of. I won't be able to dig into the head until I get that socket, and the spring compressor (do I need two of those, for both springs?) Is there anything I should be looking for here before I proceed? | ||
| Torqupine |
here's a couple pics, they may tell you more than they tell me...    | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
The spring is shorter because the valve is stuck open. I dont see anything wrong yet from the pics and you wont need the spring compressor until you get the head off. The spring compressor (you only need one) that is available most commonly (Sears, Napa, Pep Boys etc.) is good enough for the Blast springs, but will have trouble with most performance springs (except maybe the 'Beehive' springs), if you decide to change them. Better spring compressors are available, but can be expensive and hard to find. Mark the pushrods as they are different lengths. | ||
| Torqupine |
Here is what I found when I removed the Head. It's pretty clear that the piston struck the valve. Now I just need to find out why. Any suggestions would be appreciated.  Bottom of head    close up of valves  View of exhaust valve through exhaust port  top of piston, there is a mark on the piston where it stuck the valve, but its hard to see due to the lighting. I need to remove the "do not remove" bracket in order to get my spring compressor onto the valve spring. The "do not remove" bolts would not turn at all. Any hints on getting those loose? | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
You'll need to put the head in a vice if on the floor with a breaker bar wont work (the torque on those bolts is 60ft lbs=tight!). I'd first try to use the valve spring compressor with the bracket on though. It can be done (depending on the spring compressor). Sometimes its just about finding the right angle to work on. Having it in a vice or held up on a work bench helps. (I'd hate for you to pull that bracket off and find it wasnt necessary). Gently tap the top of the valve/retainer to free them up. Otherwise the valve spring compressor wont work. Once you get the spring off you can see how badly the valve is bent and where its bent It looks from the picture that your piston is missing a piece. If so, thats very likely the cause of your bent valve. | ||
| Torqupine |
It looked to me like the damaged valve was missing a piece, like the end of it got smashed to bits, maybe. What do you think is missing form the piston? | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Looking at the picture of the piston, on the bottom part of the picture, on the piston, it looks as if there is a piece missing at the valve pocket. From the pictures I dont see anything wrong with the valve, just a scuff mark from hitting the piston. | ||
| Torqupine |
holy crap! There IS a big chunk (1/2 inch X 1/4 inch) missing out of the piston. do you think that piece got between the valve and piston, bending the valve? There is a powdery residue coating the top of the piston. Do I need a new piston? how tough is it to get that thing off?  The damaged valve (silvery area, left) is on the opposite side from the damage on the piston (right). The knucklehead that owned it before me ran it w/o the aircleaner "to get more power." Is that likely the root of the problem? Maybe a bit of gravel got in there or something? | ||
| Ezblast |
Nope - pretty sure thats from the damaged piston - you need both piston, and valve. EZ | ||
| Styxnpicks |
the piston is done.. valves probably bent, I bet the valve seat or guide dropped cause its not closing.... time to just go all out and upgrade | ||
| Torqupine |
So what caused the damage to the piston in the first place? If I swap out the valve and piston and replace all the gaskets and such, is that the end of it, or is it gonna fall apart again next month? "All out upgrade" sounds like fun, what exactly does that mean? I'm running low on cash 'cause it costs an extra $200 a month to take the toyota to work rather than the bike. I'm tempted to just take the head in to the Harley dealership next time I'm in town and ask them to replace the valve for me, it's just taking me to long to get it done myself and I need my bike back. Can i just pick up a spare piston while I'm there? Also, how do you get the old one off? | ||
| Ezblast |
No - just get better valve guides and you should be good to go. EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Nooooooo....dont take it to the stealership. Thats truly your last and most expensive resort. A machine shop that specializes in engine/head work is a better choice. I'm sure there's one around thats done a bunch of Harleys. Also check our sponsor list for a candidate. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/171 43/17143.html (unless your local dealer is a sponsor-mention Badweb and tell them what you need) It might be faster just to get an exchange head from Revolution Performance if they'll sell you a stage 1 head. Your problem I suspect is from running lean. You'll need to rejet the carb after you get it back together. Regrettably, stock parts may not be readily available for the Blast, but you wont know until you call the dealer. You may need just a valve, valve and guide or valve, guide and seat. You'll need an oversize piston and will need to get the cylinder bored & honed (same shop that does your valve). Usually getting it back together fast costs $$$. Its a catch 22. Save money getting it back together and spend money buying gas for the car. You wont know until you make the calls and order the parts (or check parts availability). Following the manual, you'll need to 'press' the piston pin out. This takes another special tool or some threaded rod and spacers/washers from the local hardware store. Some people say they just tap the pin out. I've never found that to be the case with any engine thats been abused or has any miles on it. You also risk damaging very expensive engine parts. You'll also need a ring compressor for the piston rings. When you add it all together it seems quite the undertaking. Its not really (but then again, when you have all the tools....) Repair or replace head. New piston (comes with rings) Bore and hone cylinder (you'll need the oversize piston first. Piston and cylinder is also available as a set for about $200. Or $350? for the 515 kit.) Top end gasket kit. (XB, Blast and Sportster all use the same gaskets-usually supplied with the 515 kit). Ring compressor. Torque wrench. Piston pin puller. Have I forgotten anything? | ||
| Crackhead |
torque wrench If you are careful you don't need the ring compressor. since we only have 1 piston you can use a little piece of wood and slowly compress the rings and rock the cylinder down into place. A CLEAN rag will help stabilize the piston. FYI: 1. cover the cylinder studs with something so they don't get damaged. 2. stuff a clean rag around the rod to protect the rod and to stop thing from falling into the cases. 3. since you have the exhaust off pull the allen key drain plug and flush the oil sump. You can use a magnet to help pull the shaving out. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
But DO NOT overtighten that allen case drain plug if you remove it. You wouldnt be the first person to ruin an engine case cracking it by overtightening  Drain that and you'll find out where the rest of the oil is in the 2.25 qt capacity! | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Actually, if you're not going to use a ring compressor, it would be easier to put the piston in the cylinder on the work bench. That would eliminate many problems of the piston and cylinder flopping around on installation. You also wont need the piston pin puller/installer to put it back together. On a new piston it slides right in. "stuff a clean rag around the rod to protect the rod and to stop things from falling into the cases." very important! There is also a better head torque procedure that doesnt use "turn the bolt an additional X degrees". Pretty sure I've listed it elsewhere on Badweb. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
FWIW: I really appreciate the input from others on this. Its been a long time since I did this for the first time. I really dont remember what I had trouble with. I'm also up for an upgrade, but I cant just ever let "well enough" be. | ||
| Ezblast |
So whispers the Dark side! LOL EZ | ||
| Crackhead |
"But DO NOT overtighten" That is what the TQ wrench is for. do every bolt and nut to spec. Alumin is very soft and the threads can stretch. You will need an allen socket set. I found it easier to out the piston on the rod, with a lot of rags stuffed evenly around the cylinder hole (to stabalize and stop the piston from going to far down) then rotate the crank to lower the piston to the top of the cases. With a lot of rags between the piston and the cases, the piston is held in place but can be adjusted. The cylinder has some slop between the studs and the holes, so you can adjust that as well. A scrap piece of wood will allow you to push the rings in, but will not scratch the rings. (Message edited by crackhead on September 17, 2010) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
I've never found a torque spec for the allen plug (but I know how tight it goes). He can use either method to get the piston in. I just wanted to state an option (but my opinion did get in there!). I prefer the bench method. Easier to me and I can keep the gaskets free of assembly oil. The bench method doesnt work well with a used piston when you have to press the pin back in. I'd go to Pep Boys and buy a $15 ring compressor though. | ||
| Torqupine |
I can't tell you all how much i appreciate the help here. I think I have a handle on the piston/cylinder replacement. I'm still working on getting the valve fixed. The site sponsor HD dealer in Austin quoted $650 parts and labor to replace the exhaust valve(but the guy I talked to didn't sound like he knew what he was talking about). The dealer in Laredo quoted $250-300. I was able to get the names of two local machine shops, but they won't be open again until Monday. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again. | ||
| Swampy |
But wait! This is the time to upgrade to an XB head and piston! | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Was that on or off the bike? Seems outrageous if you just bring them the head. If they are going to put your bike back together, well then maybe thats fair. An exchange performance head is $300-$600 (depending on the extent of modifications). | ||
| Torqupine |
yeah, that was off the bike, me dropping off the head and picking it up later. Stealership is right. Is there anyone i should ask for at revolution? also, would a rebuilt valve from a machine shop be better than an exchange head from revolution? |
