| Author | Message | ||
     Hootowl |
The only solution I see is to have one or two dealers per state (large states like Montana, Alaska, California, Texas would have more) that ONLY sell Buells, staffed by Buell owners. There is a great deal of money involved in keeping inventory around that you may or may not sell that year. If these dealers didn't have to pay for the inventory (think "remote BMC warehouses" instead of dealer inventory) until they sold them, there would be no incentive to keep inventory low. BMC would just maintain their parts inventory in a distributed environment. If a part was needed somewhere else, it would be shipped from the closest dealer's BMC "bonded warehouse" as it were. Fewer dealers farther away would mean there would need to be more mail order parts business. How often do you buy a new bike? Is driving 2-4 hours to the dealer to obtain one such a big deal? I don't think so. As far as service goes, would you rather take your bike a few hours away to get the job done right, or be screwed (as we all have) by the HD dealer right down the street? Jeff | ||
| Daves |
"If I ask the guy behind the parts counter how many teeth are on the rear pulley of an S3 - he should know, not only the American spec, but the European spec, and then he should explain all the different possible ratio's with the different front and rear pulleys, and offer to sell me the pulleys and a recalibration module for my speedo -- all of which he has in-stock in 2 different finishes." If that is really what you expect, you will never be happy. Why would any dealer stock a European pulley for a 5 year old bike? They have probably NEVER had anyone even ask for one. Let's not set the expectations so over the top. | ||
| Nutsnbolt |
no kidding | ||
| Naustin |
They have probably NEVER had anyone even ask for one. They never have anyone ask for anything, because most buell owners avoid dealerships like the plague. I though this was the problem we're trying to solve? If they did stock parts, and parts guys were aware that the Euro spec pulleys are different, maybe people would buy them... Also, I resent the suggestion that a 5 year old bike is too old to bother with. What does that attitude suggest about Buell and its service? I'm shocked it comes from you, Dave. Do I have to buy a Brand new bike every 18 months to be worthy of good service? Is it too much to expect that Buell will have parts for my bike when its 5 years old? Or, should I have used it up and thrown it away by then? | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
"If I ask the guy behind the parts counter how many teeth are on the rear pulley of an S3 - he should know, not only the American spec, but the European spec, and then he should explain all the different possible ratio's with the different front and rear pulleys, and offer to sell me the pulleys and a recalibration module for my speedo -- all of which he has in-stock in 2 different finishes." Parts guys do not need the ability to help you re-engineer your bike - That is what BadWeb is for! ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) They should be able to find those pulley part numbers (customer provided) in their system, get them in a reasonable period of time, not mark the price up, and ask "Is there anything else I can help you with today?" with a smile.... (Message edited by scott_in_nh on November 01, 2006) | ||
| Court |
Settle down. . . I'm riding an 11 year old Buell and have only an inkling of an urge to buy a new one. I would not expect anyone at Liberty to stock nor be fluent in Euro specs. But, I would expect to be listened to and be able to get parts without delay. | ||
| Daves |
Naustin, you are taking the 5 year old bike comment the wrong way. I am sorry if it offended you. I didn't mean it the way you took it. You are telling dealers that they need to stock parts that, and trust me on this, never(ok almost never) get asked for. I have never had anyone ask for a Euro pulley that I can remember. That expectation is over the top and no dealer is going to do it. They would be crazy to do that. We are trying to improve customer service here. Yes, they should listen to your requests, look up the info if they do not know. Offer to order up the parts, call you when they get in,not jack up the price on you because it was "special order" and then, thank you for your business. (Message edited by daves on November 01, 2006) | ||
| No_rice |
i am a buell nut, and a parts guy at an HD and Buell shop. however, i dont know, and never will know EVERY spec on every buell ever made. it is not feasable. the only problem i see with that is i may not know the answer on the spot, but i will make damn sure that i do all i can to get the right answers for the question i get asked. i am all about learning more about the buells i love. just like the rest of you it is not the ONLY thing in my life. i have a daughter that also has to take up my usable memory storage. i honestly doubt even Erik himself would be able to give you every spec without a little checking on it once in awhile, as even he has things more important than buell. also, use your own knowledge to help out the sales or parts people. just because they dont know doesnt always mean they dont care to. maybe the question you ask or the part you want has never been asked for that they know of. i do agree with needing some way to keep a few more parts in the shops. as i myself know how hard it is to get a stock pile built up because it doesnt look good on the books with so many rarely selling parts sitting around. it's like pulling teeth to convince someone to order in parts for the buells just so they can sit on the shelf and wait to be sold hopefully. one of the things i would like to see, that would help me out as a parts person is a SPECIFIC buell section when calling spoc. i only have one person or so that i will usually deal with when calling with a problem there. most of the people have no helpful knowledge of buells in general. when the person that is supposed to be answering my question in the buell help section doesnt even know what an M2 and has to ask me who makes it, it really makes it hard to get any info. couldnt there be a buell section, thats only buell and not HD? i'm done rambling for a bit... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
My bike, ahem, "fell down". As a result, I needed new shifter linkage. I called five local dealerships. No one had one, AND no one thought they could get one in less than a couple weeks. I called Dave's dealership and had them sent to me. They were here in 3 days, from Wisconsin. Explain why XB shifter linkage would not be available. Have the XB platforms not been around since 03? Am I the first person in TN to have lost a shift linkage? There should be a minimum package of parts. Obviously, I don't expect them to have the ability to build a complete bike from spare parts in the back, but there are definitely parts that having a complete set or two would be helpful. When a part from the stock list is used, it is replaced. | ||
| Wsplrll |
Court - I have been following this thread ( and as you know have had some positive contact with you lately that has given me some positive feelings ). I have been on both ends of this topic and currently work in a client oriented industry. I agree that the 5 essential elements of Customer Service when executed will produce a high rate of satisfaction and problem resolution. The 5 elements overlap to varying degrees depending on the specific situation - the combination of high ticket, mechanical consumer item makes it especially challenging. In any event - I think that there is a difference between "customer service " which I am interpreting as help with warranty items and other problems as opposed to some kind of Technical Help desk type of thing. The latter obviously requires a higher level of answering a complex specific question at point of call. That being said - I think the Accessibility/ Accountability pieces are the most critical of the equation. If I can't reach you without frustration then all other elements will not take place and Accessibility sets the tone for the entire relationship. A recorded message telling me my call is important you the company tells me that it is anything but.....my time is worthless is the impression I get along with the fact that they cannot manage the call volume. Accountability and Responsibility are closely related. I have always found that a professional and efficient representative impresses me ( also my Clients ) and goes a long way in making me feel that a person who is WILLING to help me and CARES to do a job well makes me feel like I am going to have a better chance at a resolution. As they say - the key interface with the Client sets the tone for your perception of the company. I always am impressed when I call the insurance co. ( in Wisc ) and talking to a friendly and helpful person makes an impression on me every time ( I am from the East Coast after all ). I think that an immediate resolution is desirable ( Buck Stops Here ) but harder to deliver in this type of industry. Therefore a greater emphasis on the other aspects is all the more crucial. I think most customers understand that fixing a problem with a motorcycle is not as easy as adjusting an entry to a credit card or bank account. I think that understanding the customer is also very important - and the hardest to deliver on consistently. If all the representatives where, say Buell owners or Brag members ( as an example) that were trained to effectively deal with customers their enthusiasm would be much easier to impart to their Clients. The challenge is then to motivate representatives and make them feel an essential part of the entire Buell organization and delivery of that essential piece to the customers. Sort of the inside out approach. If Erik's enthusiasm is any indication that should be a great start as an effective leadership personality is a critical part of any organization. I can tell you that my conversations with you and meeting Erik and attending Buell events are a major aspect to making me feel that Buell is different, they "get" me as a customer and there is a fraternal feeling that you can't get with other brands. This is the piece that can translate to the Understand me piece. A major challenge in today's business environment is typically an economic one - other than the bureaucratic ones that you alluded to - staffing the customer service position with persons that are competent, able and professional as well as highly motivated - ultimately can come down to whether you are able to compensate the talent you need to attract. In my ideal model you have a person who might be the coordinator who handles a "case" and follows it through to the conclusion as an Account Representative does. In contrast to the call center model where you get the next available person.The assembly line approach to Customer Service usually serves the bottom line but no one else. If you look at this board as an example - how many come here for help with an issue or problem? Not because they know that they will get accountability or immediate solution necessarily - but I think because for the most part ( some exceptions ) they will be communicating with those that care, share the same enthusiasm and do understand the importance of the problem they face. I hope you enjoy your trip. I hope to hear all the details. Ultimately if you were the impart your enthusiasm to the customer service team that would be a great start. | ||
| Henrik |
Court's list is excellent. Most important to me are the 3 middle ones. Nothing puts me over the edge like being given the "it's not my job" run-around. Responsibility absolutely takes the #1 spot. I have noticed customer service in other businesses taking more of a hand-holding approach lately - When you get passed on to next level support, the first person you spoke to will stay on the line until the next person picks up and you and your problem are introduced. A good start. About Naustin's request for knowledge; probably not realistic, and for my $$ I'd rather the dealers focus on getting Court's 5 basics right. Besides, someone once said that the smart person is not the one who knows everything, but the one who knows who and where to ask and get the correct answers  Inventory: the basic tip-over parts as well as other frequently replaced parts should be in stock everywhere. As for other parts, I think much could be gained if the dealers in general would just order the damn parts when they promise ... Henrik | ||
| Daves |
No Rice, Any time you can't get an answer from SPOC feel free to give me a shout. I can almost always get answers right away. I am more than willing to help. Ft_B There is a recommended minimum part order "kit" that comes out with every new model/generation Buell I found Appleton's up on the top shelf, where it had been sitting since 02. It has it's own part number, so nobody knew what it was, just a big box with a Buell part tag on it? Inside were shifters,turn signals, bulbs,levers,pegs, all the stuff any dealer should have on hand at all times. | ||
| Daves |
I fixed my post above to say "didn't" Thanks for catching that one Blake! | ||
| Nutsnbolt |
You know, where I live, in this area of North Carolina we have a huge RED ANT problem. Those of you familiar with them will attest that when you get near or even bump or heaven forbid, kick over an ant hill, those ants start swarming and attacking and going CRAZY. This is just what's happening here, and quite honestly, being a participator in this, could kind of see this coming. We have metaphorically kicked over the Ant Hill called Harley Davidson, and here come the soldiers to defend it's queen, and rightfully so. Not all the dealerships are USELESS. Not all the service areas at these places are a joke. But... there is obviously enough of a problem to warrant this amount of disgruntalment. I don't expect the parts counter to be that proficient as others are expecting. You know, my doctor, after seeing me about a recent back problem had to consult some literature on the correct method to handle my problem, and this guy is a back SPECIALIST. Now wait a minute, does that mean that MY DOCTOR has NO IDEA how to be a doctor? He had the nerve to look up the proper protocol!!?? Of course not! He can't be expected to remember EVERYTHING that he has had shoved down his throat in Med School. Quit baggin on the parts counter dude for not knowing EVERYTHING, even on a relatively new bike! Now, for every bad Dealership there is probably 4 good dealerships. But, that's just it. There are bad ones out there, and we are blaming this on Harley Davidson. Yea, they are to blame partly. But, a good part of the onus has to fall on Buell, as well. THIS IS THEIR PRODUCT. It has the Buell name on it, nowhere does it say Harley Davidson on it. That being said, yea, there bikes are sold at Harley shops/T-Shirt Boutique's, and yeah, these bikes are sometimes placed near the bathroom behind the 4x6 counter full of women's garments. Sure... there are marketing problems. But, you see these are the problems, not the parts counter knowing euro specs. How do you make Buell more attractive to prospective buyers? If their is no interest in a product, then THERE IS NO INTEREST IN A PRODUCT! It's not our fault, we bought their product. We like it. Something appeals to us about it. This is what we have to concentrate on. If Buell were to become as big a name as Honda this would be a non issue. But, it's not. I watched the Buell Commercial on line at their website (the commercial, not the videos, this is important later) and that commercial sucks. Now, I LIKE IT, don't get me wrong, but I'm a Buell Guy. I loved the quick little clips about mass cetralization and owning the corners. But, then I looked at the commercial again, telling myself to look at it like I had never owned or known much about a Buell before, and that's when it hit me, it sucked. Now the videos about the bikes with music and stuff... Those kicked butt!! That would be a great commercial. That had adrenaline, speed, it had a lot. Those videos would make great commercials!! You have to excite someone into impulse browsing and shopping. You can't relax them into it. I'm serious, take that test yourself. Try the commercial first, but look at it from a newbie point of view that doesn't really know much about Buell and isn't looking to jump out and buy american but interested in getting a motorcycle. Then, look at the videos. Which excites you more? Which would work better for you? The answer is obvious. This is a multi faceted project involving marketing, product follow-through (product knowledge in sales, and parts counters), service, and customer service. Now, most of these issues are controlled by the Dealerships that are selling their bread and butter... Harleys!! While treating the Buells as cranberry sauce. To carry this metaphor further, instead of cranberry sauce, they would do better treating them like jam. Everyone loves jam! Not everyone loves cranberry sauce. That's all i got for now, I have parent/teacher conferences to go to. Keep the focus on what this is about. Mark | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Dave, Although I was glad to get a chance to buy from your shop, I shouldn't have had to. I know the desire to respect the individuality of the dealership owner, but when that individuality hurts the delivery of service and product, there is a problem. Do all the dealerships know about the stock package? | ||
| Wsplrll |
My examples were primarily focused on the corporate model of customer service as opposed to the Dealership model. Sales and revenue drive that one. Harleys and Harley apparel specifically. Until they lose sales as a result ( or perception) there is not going to be a major shift in the philosophy in many of the cases. | ||
| No_rice |
thanks Dave, i know you are more than willing to help. and at some point i'm sure i will give you a call again. you are a VERY busy guy though and i figure what they hey, i'll try spoc, thats what its for! | ||
| Naustin |
Dave... I apologize for taking your comment the wrong way. I admit the euro pulley is a poor example. I think everyone knows what I was getting at though, and that a critical component of customer service is having the parts and accessories people want and need available on the spot and in stock, especially maintenance items. It was mentioned and overlooked a few posts back (1st post on this page) that Buell should have its own stand alone dealers. I would like to see the conversation go in that direction. | ||
| Daves |
it's ok Naustin, on the web it's easy to take things the wrong way. I agree, every dealer should have minimum essential parts on hand. I just sold a shift lever to a rider several states away since his dealer didn't have one. A freakin shift lever! Of course I don't mind  Stand alone dealers, I don't see that happening. There's only a few people in the country that would be able to make that business plan work. | ||
| Borrowedbike |
Naustin... I'll bite on that. I also liked Hootowls suggestions (But then again he is the one I "Borrowed" the bike from...) Anyhow what is it we want when we go to a dealership? A free ride. Face it, so were back to demo bikes. BMC could centrally locate the new inventory and require each dealer to have at least one demo bike of each model. Free test rides, rentals for about $100/day. Sell them next year as used and let the sales force take them home. This builds the dealer passion we want our dealers to have, gives us a chance to ride the new bike, and exposes the public to them. This ends my rant on sales of new bikes. On to Courts requested topic. Customer service. I can summarize good customer service in two simple traits. 1) A sense of urgency. It is my opinion that any good customer service agent works quickly to solve a problem, these people are treating the problem as if it were there own. This appears to the customer as a person downright desperate to solve there issue. 2) Follow up. Extend that sense of urgency back to the customer, call and give frequent updates. Apologize when you can't meet a commitment before you miss a deadline. Own the issue, or as Court said, make the buck stop here. The intimate knowledge of how many teeth are on the euro pulley, that'll come on it's own. It will be learned because A)It's your job to look it up yourself, and B)enough people have asked, and you've had to look it up enough times that you remember it. One more thing to add to Courts list, actually hitchhiking on his idea. BMC has a great web page, what about an owners section? Log in wit a vin # and password, no names. Allow a log (edited of course by BMC) of history on the bike. Think of the power of having the reliability data of these bikes, submitted by the owners, at your fingertips... | ||
| Jlnance |
Some thoughts on parts availability. Keeping inventory is expensive, thats why dealers are hesitant to stock parts. You have to pay interest on the cost of the parts while they sit on the shelves, and you have to pay for the cost of space in the building they are taking up. It is nice to be able to run down to the dealership at 4:00 on a Saturday afternoon and pick up something on the spur of the moment. However, that is an expensive privledge, and I can see a dealer not wanting to provide it, at least not at a cost people are willing to pay. But we can get close, with only minor changes to the existing system. You can Fedex or UPS things and get them there the next day. Currently, when I call up Dave, my parts go from Buell to him, and he ships them to me. If dealers could order parts and have them shipped directly to the customer, with a next day option, I think folks would be a lot happier. | ||
| Court |
Let me get it right....you'd like it if, just for instance, you could . . .
Comments? | ||
| Nutsnbolt |
Yeah, but then you have the issue if it comes to you wrong or a flaw on it, or whatever. There's nothing more irritating than having something arrive at your door being the wrong thing or having a scratch or tear in it and then you have to ship it back and blah blah blah. Atleast when it hits the dealer they can open it and ensure that it is as it should be and kind of double check it before it makes it's way to you. In a perfect world, we shouldn't have to go through Dave. Though I have before, we shouldn't have to. But, I still say use your local dealer when possible. But, we don't live in a perfect world. Atleast those of us that don't live near Dave. The shipping thing sounds good in theory, but I just see what mistakes that could be made and that might be enough to really fire up some people. Think of how that would go over... Like a Fart in a Space Helmet. mark | ||
| Nutsnbolt |
wow Court, I have to admit, that sounds like a great deal. Sounds like someone has ordered from Sears.com before. I would love that, if that could actually happen. I like the pick up at dealer option after you have ordered it. mark | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
On parts, I don't mind waiting for the weird parts. If I decided I wanted the diamond etched rear belt sprocket, I'm ok waiting for that to come in. I just don't want to have to wait several days for commonly broken parts. Why would an XB Shifter/Clutch lever not be in stock ALL the time? Why would a frame puck not be in stock ALL the time? Or a shifter package? I like your idea for upgrade parts or parts that I can wait for. I had a lay down. Very minor. I was 300 miles from home. There were two dealers within 70 miles. Neither of them had the shifter parts in stock. My day was done. I rode the 300 miles home in 5th gear. Had they had the parts in stock, I would have ridden 50 miles to the dealer, spent 15 minutes fitting the new parts, and been on my way. The kiosk would not have helped me in that circumstance. Dealer parts support is worthless if they don't have simple replacement parts while I'm out and about. One solution is to always carry shifter and brake levers and linkage. If I were riding the ALCAN, I would say that's prudent. When you ride within minutes of a dealership, you shouldn't have to. | ||
| Court |
>>>Reach down and pull your detailed receipt (showing ETA, back ordered, vendor direct, obsolete, pick up at counter; it's waiting or whatever) DREAM WITH ME. . . . tell me what's possible. I already have a list of impossible things. | ||
| Naustin |
In regard to the Kiosk. If I have to go through that rigamarol, don't make me haul my butt all the way to the dealership to do it. I should be able to do THAT online from my workbench on the Buell website! If I go to the dealership for a part, its because I'm not sure about something, and I want to talk to a person who ought to have the expertise to answer my question and give me a little friendly advise. For example: "I'm ordering X-part , do I also need Y-part or is "Y" reusable?" And parts guy says: "Yeah you need to replace Y-part too, and don't forget to do "this or that" while you're at it - you'll need one of these too." Those are tough conversations to have with a Computer Kiosk, or a HD parts guy that doesn't know Buells, for that matter. Why do you need a Kiosk if you have a Parts guy? It merely takes responsibility away from the parts guy so he continues to be uneducated on Buells. Awesome Idea for the Buell website though... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If it's waiting at the counter, hell yeah, I'm in!!!!!!!!!!! While you're dreaming, could it include a listing of American Sport Bike or Trojan parts as well? You have to remember, I live 6 miles from the former Service Merchandise headquarters. So kiosks don't necessarily impress me. Buell's version of Silent Sam would need to be impressive. I like the idea! | ||
| Mainstreamer |
Court, I like the Kiosk idea. Let's take it one step further and link it to the service department scheduling tool. Pick open date and schedule installation and or routine service with out requiring Service Dept concurrence. Why not an on-line site in addition to the kiosk? I frequently make a lot of purchases over the phone and using the internet. Rarely has there been a problem with the product. When there has been a problem usually it was my fault, wrong size, wrong PN, etc.. I believe the convenience of ordering from home 24/7 far out weights the inconvenience of an occasional return. | ||
| Court |
Hmmmmm. . . . once, while conducting a similar exercise in Cambridge, MA, I had to stop the process and do a 1-hour course on dreaming. I'm thinking our group here may need a remedial Bryce Courtenay lesson. Dream big, think "what if", pretend you are a Buell future products engineer, let go the constraints of the last poor dealer experience, don't think "how to fix", think "what's best". . . . think, plagiarizing from Stephen Covey, "with the end in mind". Try something. Try to find 3 minutes (ONLY 3 MINUTES) at home this evening. Sit down, close your eyes and see, if only for 3 minutes, it you can clear your mind of experiential based bias and think "what would, using some of the existing structure and resources, an "excellent Buell experience" look like. We, as Buell owners, have an opportunity you'll likely never have with any other manufacturer, be it motorcycles or toasters, to play a role in charting our future experience. There are a lot of good thing...tell me what GREAT looks like. |
