| Author | Message | ||
     Spatten1 |
I work in mergers and acquisitions and I can make one confident prediction: If the MV line is not a PRIMARY focus of this acquisition, it is unlikely to succeed. If this is truly done for the dealer network, the MV line will fall into disarray. Sometimes the true reason for acquisitions are not stated, but with Harley trying to please shareholders and analysts, they will be pressured to be successful at what they state they will do with the acquisition, which seems to be pushing more chrome in France. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I hope Harley does make MV some sort of priority because for the last seven years I've said that an MV F4 is at the top of my list if I win the lottery. | ||
| Azxb9r |
MV is sold at the local Ducati dealer, along with Aprilia. I think it would be very cool to add Buell to that bunch, maybe parts would be available too... or is that just asking too much? Thinking about it some more, if those four brands were under one roof I would never leave the store  | ||
| Glitch |
So a hog, Pegasus and an Elephant walk into a bar...  | ||
| Americanmadexb |
mmmm.. MV Jerky! | ||
| Glitch |
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| Gentleman_jon |
I was wondering what an MV Agusta was doing parked out in front of Hal's at Homecoming. Little did I know. Actually, this is just one of a long series of incredibly stupid moves that the Motor Company seems to specialize in. They should have bought in more of their stock. Might buy some myself in the mid thirties, yielding almost 4%. They will never get that kind of yield out of MV. They have more money than brains, and they have done this kind of thing many times before. Bottom line, my brothers: Makes no sense, going nowhere, typical Harley: stupid. Real Stupid. V Rod Stupid. Got it?  | ||
| Spatten1 |
Real Stupid. V Rod Stupid. LOL | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I think that it is more of their Europe only focus. I dont know that we will see the bikes here locally looking at the prices of them. btw, the Italians and the Germans, get Buell. So maybe it is a way to get more market toehold over there. There are alot of things that from the early 70s that are repeating themselves. Witness "gas crisis", unpopular war, muscle cars, stagflation, creaping communist tension, italian built bikes & HD in cahouts..... | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I've said that an MV F4 is at the top of my list if I win the lottery. Yea, that's the problem with MV - they appeal to the "jet set". I have to agree with Gentleman_jon on this one. I'm not feeling it. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Does anyone know where you can find production or sales numbers (worldwide)? I've just been hunting around and can't find anything, but I'm curious to see how production/sales numbers compare between the brands. Looking at the international Cagiva site they only have two models listed - the Raptor 125 and new Mito 525. I thought Cagiva still made dirt/dual purpose bikes? Scooters? And how big is MV Agusta in terms of sales? Their bikes are at the premium end of the market, I would have thought worldwide they sell less bikes than Buell, but not really sure... | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
I think I was thinking of Piaggio in terms of scooters, and it seems Cagiva stopped making off road bikes when they bought Husqvarna... Now they've sold Husqvarna... | ||
| Speedfreaks101 |
Jon nailed it. Idiotic. Why not invest the money in Buell. It is more consumer friendly (affordable) and has a strong following across the pond. Why not work to strengthen the brand in dealerships, quality, marketing and training. Then if they want to utilize a sportbike to put someone on a Harley then they can use the bike they already own. Think about this. You go looking for a top level repli-racer and you stumble in to a dealer and see a 850 lb of iron sitting there with that looks just like it did in 1950. Right then and there you are going to say "hey I gotta have that!" PLEASE SOMEONE TELL HARLEY (beat it into their head with a 2x4) THAT SPORTBIKES DON'T SELL CRUISERS AND CRUISERS DON'T SELL SPORTBIKES, THEY ARE DIFFERENT MARKETS FOR DIFFERENT RIDERS!!!! If they could grasp this concept then they could greatly improve an existing product line and pull market share from some other brands. | ||
| Teddagreek |
I've been to a lot of big and small import dealers that have a good selection of both... They just sell bikes differently then HD does.. Don't get me started on all the Gawdy HD merchandise and chrome accessories on the walls... | ||
| Speedfreaks101 |
If Harley starts selling in Europe then they will find out about the high performance, impact resistant do-rag helmets. Then before you know China will be making knockoffs and the do-rags will get a bad rap. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
OH holy craptastic ventures in a handbag ... You do one thing, you do it well, you do it better than everybody else, quit trying to pi$$ in other peoples pots of koolaide. And if you have the capital around to fart away like that, maybe it should have been reinvested in the company business that you have done for 105 years/25 years. This is not what they meant by diversify your portfolio! Hell I would have had them send the money to Buell, or even Roehr than Italy, at least he is using the parts and components from H-D (or was). Theres a flood a coming, gather your flock, keep your accounts close. Ye hath been warned. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Sorry, I'm not seeing the problem. I love my old Wide Glide for what she is. I can't stay off my 1125R. A 50 mph putt thru the fields in early summer is as essential to me as a flight thru the twisties in the Foothills on my Buell. Z | ||
| Edger |
"PLEASE SOMEONE TELL HARLEY (beat it into their head with a 2x4) THAT SPORTBIKES DON'T SELL CRUISERS AND CRUISERS DON'T SELL SPORTBIKES, THEY ARE DIFFERENT MARKETS FOR DIFFERENT RIDERS!!!! If they could grasp this concept then they could greatly improve an existing product line and pull market share from some other brands." I must be schizophrenic! I've got'em both! Is there a shrink in the house? | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
While I understand they only wanted the dealer penetration. What is going to happen when the MV people decided they would like to race? Already HD has tight purse strings when it come to racing, look at Buell's budgets. I see two angry cats, and one small fish. Another thing aren't buells nearly as exotic in Europe as an MV? As mentioned earlier this screams MerChrysler deal. | ||
| Elvis |
Actually, I think racing is one of the most interesting elements of this whole thing. Consider this quote: Q9: When will you go racing with MV? MV Agusta has a proud racing heritage and is very successful today in the Italian Superbike series. And as you know, Harley-Davidson also has a rich racing heritage. Racing also provides a great testing platform. So bottom line, we believe racing is important and we never comment on specific future racing plans. Never comment on specific future racing plans? Since when has Harley had any specific future racing plans? If they aren't planning any real factory racing and intend to have MV Augusta continue with their Italian racing (and I'm sure they wouldn't tell them to stop since that's part of the brand they bought) and continue a loosely co-ordinated privateer effort with Buell, why would they be reluctant to discuss that? It seems the only reason they would be reluctant to discuss racing plans is if they didn't want to tip the competition. Dealer moves and engineering cross-over will be long term projects, but racing could be much more immediate. Buell will be able to race in AMA Literbike, Moto-ST and AMA 600 Superbike next year. The latest rumor is that the AMA will also include a WSBK format - in which the MV Augusta should be able to compete. One good racing team racing both Buell and MV Augusta could share team management, techs, equipment, riders, etc. and run Buell and MV Augusta for much less money than it would require for two independant teams. As for the dealers, as much as many around here hate the Harley dealer network, that's the value Harley adds to the equation and that's why this deal makes a lot of sense. MV Augusta makes great bikes, but they're a tiny brand (as I mentioned, even smaller than Buell). Many of us would consider an MV Augusta, but a big problem is they're just not on our mind. There aren't any dealers around the corner and those that carry them have them as a minor brand - one of many other larger brands. The simple act of making MV Augustas available through the dealers who currently carry Buell would greatly improve their exposure and likely lead to dramatically improved sales. We could probably make a list of 20 cool, small brands (Binelli, Moto-Guzzi, Aprilia, MV Augusta etc.) that make good enough bikes to be a lot bigger if they could just get that "bump" that gets them into people's minds when they're considering a new bike. Harley can give them that "bump" and a big part of that bump is Harley's large deelar network. No matter how it all shakes out, I don't think there's any question that this is great news for Buell, because the big problem has always been that Buell has been too small to get much attention from Harley dealers. Now, with either broader sport bike lines at current dealers . . . or, ultimately stand alone Buell/MV dealers (many years from now when both Buell and MV have grown a good bit larger than they currently are) we should be on the verge of getting much better service. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Many of us would consider an MV Augusta, but a big problem is they're just not on our mind. Who is "us"? If you havent noticed MV's aren't exactly cheap. It's an uphill battle for any company to take on the Japs. Typically, the sportbike crowd is young and relatively poor compared to older established folk. Most dont have the financial means to purchase 20k+ bikes. Another thing to consider, MV was essentially bankrupt and this occurred during a global economic boom not in a recession. | ||
| Elvis |
"Us" is Buell riders. People who are interested in exotic, unique performance bikes that offer something unique over the Japanese bikes with something of a price premium. As Buell has gotten larger their prices have come down. If you bought a Buell 10 years ago, you likely would have paid relatively the same price as you would now for an MV Augusta (and MV Augusta has models available for less than $20,000). As MV gets bigger (and I have no doubt with Harley's support that they can grow beyond their 5800 units) the prices can come down . . . just like they did for Buell. They fit in perfectly above the Buell line. More expensive, more powerful, more exclusive. I hope to be able to afford one in the coming years and park it next to my Buell. | ||
| Ezblast |
From all I've ever read MV has always been considered TOL - quality and ability - just not affordable - perhaps HD can bring that around a bit. EZ | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Maybe we will get some of the Aermacchi type models back The Topper, The 250 Sprint, The SX250/350/500... You know the stuff Harley would never build Looks like I had a couple screens up and hit enter in the wrong text box Duh | ||
| Bob_thompson |
When Harley Davidson went for sales in Japan it went over tremendously which you would have never thought. Quite possibly HD wants to expand their sales in Europe and this gave them quite a few dealerships where they will not have to build or start shops from scratch. I would imagine they will carry both types of bikes at these "new" dealers. | ||
| Brumbear |
MV BUELL | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Hmmm... how sad will it be if HD takes over the MV dealerships only to banish them to a dark corner in the back with a couple of Buells, while chrome hogs and mountains of HD paraphernalia fill the prime floor space. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
When Harley Davidson went for sales in Japan it went over tremendously which you would have never thought. I would think the opposite. The Japanese suck up western culture like cocaine addicts | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I am hopeful in this merger. I can't imagine that MV was so desperate for cash that they would accept any offer from any buyer to save their bacon. They approved this merger. There had to be a reason they felt it was advantageous. I see many sourcing cost savings and access to HD's resources. Granted, MV will have to justify the use of that capital like Buell does, but they will have access to it just the same. I don't believe the line between cruiser and sport bike is as bright in Europe as it is here. Strangely, Honda, Yamaha, and Suzuki are able to sell cruisers IN THE US off the same floor. The question is whether HD is able to sell cruisers without pimping out all the lifestyle stuff with it. The problem is that the decision on the degree of "pimpery" may be, as it is here, up to the dealer owners rather than HD. Each dealer has the option to determine what is on their floor. Some chose to utilize the entire sales floor to sell clothing and accessories with their bikes out in the "bike barn". HD didn't require them to do this. The dealer owner made that decision. What control is exerted by the MV dealership owners in Europe? Might they chose to push their sport bikes back into the hallway next to the ladies restroom in order to make room for large, shiny American cruisers and leather jackets because they are selling? We shall see. I hope MV can maintain their individuality within the HD constellation. Buell has to a certain degree. It appears that Buells individuality is increasing rather than decreasing. How many common parts does the 1125R share with it's HD model brethren? Might be nice for MV and Buell to share more parts. RETURN OF THE TUBER! LONG LIVE THE TRELLIS FRAME! | ||
| Aeholton |
New model release:  |
