| Author | Message | ||
     Upthemaiden |
So I'm a little baffled at the moment. I just rebuilt by carb, but I'm starting to think I'm going crazy. The forcewinder intake bolts to the carb with three 6mmx1.25 bolts. None of my hex keys will fit into them. I tried metric and sae just for the fun of it. In theory they should take a 5mm hex key. They bolts aren't perfect but they certainly aren't mangled to the point that something wouldn't fit in them. Easy solution is to replace the bolts, but this one didn't even come out because of the curve of the tube. Am I missing something obvious here? I twisted the bolts out with vice grips originally, and could do the same to put them back on, but there weren't any teeth marks in them before that, which makes me wonder how the previous owner even got them in. He said he was a mechanic... The condition of this bike begs to differ... Options... Replace two bolts and vice group the third tight Sacrifice a hex key and file it down until it will fit Cut this bolt out, put 6mm studs in the carbs and tighten them on with nuts like a header attaches to the head Cut a slot out of the filter bracket so the one bolt can just slide in from the slide, similar to how the carb bracket slides onto the breather fitting on the rear cylinder. Thoughts?  (Message edited by Upthemaiden on October 02, 2016) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I probably still have mine in a drawer somewhere. | ||
| Harleyelf |
File? That will take hours and make your hands hurt like hell. Use a cut-off wheel on a 4" disc grinder. I remember the first time I wanted shortened hex key - I was about twelve, fixing a bicycle - and learned that a hacksaw blade will turn to mush before it will cut through a hex key. Grinding is the only way to go. | ||
| Dannybuell |
A cut down hex key is a Harley Owners Best Friend | ||
| Upthemaiden |
it's not the angle and length of the hex key that's the problem, it's the hole inside the head of the bolt that the wrench goes into. It's somewhere between 4 and 5mm and it didn't seem to be an sae size either. When I said about filing a hex key down, I meant I'd file each of the six sides down until the wrench was about 4.5-4.75mm. I do need to cut a 1/4" hex wrench shorter for the intake manifold bolts. Those are a tight fit. (Message edited by Upthemaiden on October 02, 2016) | ||
| Odd |
ball end | ||
| Ratbuell |
Get a 4.5mm. They're common enough. | ||
| Alfau |
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDMjl5O66BM | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Looks like this set comes with a 4.5mm, and they're cheap enough that I won't mind cutting a few of them down. http://www.harborfreight.com/36-piece-sae-metric-hex-key-set-94725.html Thanks for the video! I think the base of my socket was a little thicker than that and wasn't fitting as well as the one in the picture, but my garage time got cut short by a family dinner, so I'll see what I can sort out after work tomorrow. (Message edited by upthemaiden on October 02, 2016) | ||
| Reepicheep |
This kit has helped me often as well... http://www.harborfreight.com/100-pc-security-bit-s et-with-case-68457.html You can get a box end wrench on those bits instead of using a driver. They also work OK with this little guy: https://www.amazon.com/Chapman-Midget-Ratchet-ratc het-CM-13/dp/B00FVYLJ8W/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=147 5496583&sr=8-9&keywords=chapman+tools | ||
| Upthemaiden |
I'll take a look at that security bolt set at when I'm there tonight! Looks like there is some useful stuff in there. I think I have some security hex/torx bits somewhere, but those looks useful as they're all 1/4 fittings instead of 3/8 square sockets. I thought about grabbing a 1/4 screwdriver bit and just cutting the screwdriver ends off, and using a wrench on it. I have nowhere near as much clearance as that picture above, but I think that's because mine has a carb an that one looks like FI so the manifold is shaped differently. I also have a little flat ratchet/screwdriver like the second link you sent, but I feel like trying to undo bolts that size would probably snap the pawls in it, as I don't think it'd be able to handle that much torque being put on it. Either way, I appreciate all of the ideas! I'll get them off, it'll just take a little creative thinking. Knowing that they make 4.5mm hex keys will make that easier. I have 2.5 and 3.5mm laying around, but I thought the half sizes were only for smaller ones. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
As I recall, 4.5mm is used in the headlight area too. The first time I attempted to open it I was astounded that: #1 4.5mm is a real size #2 I actually had one in my set! | ||
| Zac4mac |
Bill - the Chapman stuff is top notch. I have a small kit, supposedly for gunsmithing that I have had for years. Kinda like this one - https://www.amazon.com/CHAPMAN-Piece-Assortment-Mi dget-Ratchet/dp/B0000WSYYW/ref=pd_rhf_se_s_cp_38?i e=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ABH4X688V8XGVHG4Z1YR | ||
| Damnut |
Chapman sets rule! I have a few. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yup, I have that same set, plus a few extra kits of extra bits. Great for carbs, guns, and things you want to protect for forever. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Got a 4.5mm hex key last night! Back in business. I'll pull the tank off tonight and see if I can get everything back together. I was looking through the intake/carb gasket kit I got and was trying to figure out where everything goes. I know the two are cylinder gaskets and one is the seal between the carb and the manifold. Then there are 3 gaskets that all fit the opening of the carb. Opinions on which one is best where? I was going to put the skinnier one between the carb and the bracket(although the sticky side faces the carb, and after seeing how much work it was cleaning the old gaskets off of the mounting bracket, I hate the idea of sticking something to the carb due to the potential future cleanup without the help of a scraper/utility knife that would gouge up the aluminum), and the medium one between the bracket and the filter. Does that sound right? I also have two smaller O-rings and two quarter sized rubber pieces. I assumed these were meant for the breadbox filter? My only other assumption for the o-rings is that they're meant to go over the breather bolts, between the head and the carb bracket.    | ||
| Reepicheep |
Make sure that when you mount up the gaskets (and even the forcewinder itself) you don't block some tiny little hole of some kind that is someplace that I can't remember where it is. Sorry. I just remember that I had to cut a port into a gasket, and grind a little relief into my forcewinder, to make the carb see the right air pressure and run right. I do recall it was obvious that the gasket was blocking a hole on assembly. So if you don't see it, it isn't a problem. (It was a cheap salvage forcewinder grafted to my M2, so may very well have been the wrong part) | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Oh there was one more thing I just remembered with the forcewinder+car kits!! The little cutout for the float bowl breather has to be hogged out. If it's too small, the air rushing by makes a Bernoulli effect thing and jetting gets weird on the top end. Lemme find the old thread.... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/11192.html | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Thanks for the link! I actually have the same link open on my computer at home so I planned on trying to open that up a little more tonight. Mine definitely looks like the one on the right. It looks like all the holes on the gaskets match up with the carb and the bracket. The one thing I thought was odd, is if you look at that bigger gasket in on the right side of first picture, you can see 4 extra tiny little holes, no clue what those are for. Will my bike need rejetted after I grind out that air vent? It ran really well as is, even on the top end. I'd hate to mess that up. The only reason I pulled and cleaned everything is because when I ride at 2900-3000rpm, the bike will sputter sometimes. It ONLY does it in that one specific window, and usually just when I'm cruising at a steady speed. No problems if I'm accelerating past that engine speed. The sputter can be a bit unsettling when it does it as I'm leaned over in a turn, as you can imagine. Normally I'd putter around at 2000-2500 rpm, but I know I don't want to lug the engine and I worry about oil circulation if it's not spinning fast enough, so I try to keep it in the 2500-3500rpm range, and obviously the sputter is dead in the center of that rpm range. My choke also didn't work, so I'd have to turn up the idle to start, and turn it back down once it warmed up. Not a huge deal, but it'd certainly be nicer to pull out the choke, and pop it back in 30 seconds later. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Even if it does need rejetted, you are better off letting the carb work right then getting the jetting right. Carbs are a nonlinear system, so it's unlikely a screwed up one would ever be right everywhere. You have to have everything right to be right everywhere. And jetting on a tuber is easy peasy anyway. The right slow jet, the right fast jet, and you are good to go. Easiest bike I ever jetted, and I wish my Kawasaki parallel twin had one big carb like the tubers did. | ||
| Buellrobot |
For lower torque hard-to-reach applications (like tightening up those damn intake seal flanges), I have found ball-end allen bits and a flex driver to be suuuper helpful: https://smile.amazon.com/Wera-Kraftform-Flexible-B itholding-Screwdriver/dp/B003GDIT1U/ref=sr_1_26?ie =UTF8&qid=1475615597&sr=8-26&keywords=flex+driver A simple ball end allen (L shaped) wrench is pretty useful for the intake elbow – I have a very similar situation with my X1. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I just picked up a set of these - The short end has twice the flat of the long side for added torque. They are the shit on intakes!! https://store.snapon.com/Ball-Hex-inches-13-pc-SAE -Double-Ball-Hex-Key-Set-P873205.aspx | ||
| Upthemaiden |
I gave it my best with a cut off hex key, no luck. I could get the wrench in just fine, but now I can't really move it without it hitting the cylinder head(might work better if I heat and bend it). Think I'll try taking the mini 1/4 ratcheting wrench and use the grinder on a normal 1/4 screwdriver bit, or else I'll decide between ordering one of these... Purpose built sportster manifold wrench: http://www.hdforums.com/forum/attachments/evo-clas sic-models/118320d1274657718-is-this-manifold-wren ch-worth-buying-hd-manifold-wrench-ds-196090.jpg Or some shorter ball sockets. I only have long ones and they're not fitting in there: http://m.homedepot.com/p/Powerbuilt-Ball-End-Hex-B it-Socket-Set-8-Piece-642403/204505188 And either way I'm thinking it might be worth replacing them with normal bolts for next time around. I'll have to look at them and see how much clearance there is in there. As of now I just put the new carb/manifold seal on and the new filter gaskets and put the bike back together. I'll save the two manifold/cylinder gaskets for another weekend. These days are to valuable, winter will be here before I know it. | ||
| Zac4mac |
This set is only 50 bucks...  | ||
| Upthemaiden |
That sounds way less crazy if you think of it as $3.85 per wrench. Otherwise I don't think "only" belongs in that sentence haha. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
So I appear to have just made things worse. The bike went from having an occasional sputter/cough when I'd keep the bike at 2800-3000rpm, to doing it pretty consistently in that range, and also doing it occasionally anywhere from about 2200-3100rpm. About 50% of my focus on the ride to work this morning was on trying to keep my bike over 3k rpm so it'd ride normal. It used to also start right away(with the idle turned up when it's cold since the choke didn't do anything), but now it's being a pain to start too. I'm hoping after I get time to replace the two manifold gaskets it'll be a little better. I tried spraying some starter fluid around them when it was running and didn't notice any leaks, but what do I know. The carb mounting bracket also wasn't lining up perfectly, and there's not much I can do about that until I get the manifold loose so I can get it in exactly the right position, so maybe it's not sealing well with the gasket between the carb and the manifold. I'd think if that was a problem now, it would've been a problem before too, so it's hard to say. | ||
| Jim2 |
Is there any chance that your choke is stuck partially on? You should fix your choke, it should be easy to fix. Are you fully warming up your engine before riding? | ||
| Upthemaiden |
I'd love to fix my choke. It was 50% of the reason that I pulled the carb in the first place. I cleaned in there pretty thoroughly but it's still not working much better. I don't let it warm up fully. I start it long enough to put my jacket and helmet on, and then just take it easy for a mile or two until it's warmed up. I used to always let my bike sit until it was all the way warmed up thinking that was best for the engine, but it seems like anymore people say it's best to just let it go for a minute or two, then take it easy on the engine till it's warm. Plus I have a few neighbors with harleys and I know how obnoxious it is when they're looping around the neighborhood seeking attention, so I try to make as little noise as possible with an already loud bike. | ||
| Jayvee |
Did you change the intake seals as part of this? I didn't notice it being mentioned. | ||
| S1owner |
There should be a gasket between every joint on mine I have 3 I believe. One between the carb and spacer, one between the spacer and carb mount and one between the carb mount and airfilter mount. Also make sure to use slide lube on the rubber that the carb slides into it really helps. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
So far I've changed all the gaskets with the exception of the two tapered manifold gaskets that seal the manifold to the heads. Just need to get some better ball hex sockets first. S1owner: not sure which spacer you're talking about. Mine has the manifold, rubber boot, carb, gasket, mounting bracket, gasket, air filter. Maybe that's what this extra one was... Is this supposed to go between the carb and mounting bracket with the spacer? Or am I missing a piece?  | ||
| S1owner |
Should have stated mine is a diffrent set up the soacer is custom. I was just getting at all intersections get a gasket. | ||
| Jayvee |
For intake manifold flange bolts, a cut-down Allen wrench is very useful, as well as a long ball end one (like 8" long, or more.) That $25 'bent' allen wrench specialty tool was not helpful to me at all. Eventually I replaced the Allen bolts on the 'outside' with hex head bolts, well might have been hex flange bolts, very easy now. ( I love McMaster-Carr ) |
