| Author | Message | ||
     Tll130 |
Idk if anyone is in the market for a rear shock for there bike but I came across this one and figured I'd throw it up looks like its pretty cheap if anyone is interested it's only up for 4 days http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav= SEARCH&itemId=330965083830 | ||
| Lynrd |
That's a pre-recall WP shock from an S2 or other early tuber. They are reputed to be lightly sprung (set up for a 160 lb rider)and a few failed completely, which lead to them being recalled and replaced with Showa shocks, which may work better but are ugly in comparison IMO. Probably best left for someone trying to do a "correct" restoration on an S2. I imagine the bidding may go up somewhat as they are pretty rare due to the recall... | ||
| Basti |
Hi sorry this is not for an S2 , this is in fact for the first M2 as this shock has no extra reservoir ( sorry Im no native so cant explain it better) as the ones for the S1 . And you can distinguish the S1 WP shock from the S2 WP Shock, as the S1 shock has cheap pressed steel clamps for the spring ( the same as the cheaper M2 shock ) and the S2 shock has cast ally clamps for the spring. Ouh that was hard for me as a non native speaker to explain , hope I did well Best wishes Basti | ||
| Kc_zombie |
Well said Basti and correct too. | ||
| Coxster |
since you guys commented on appearance - has anyone ever "un-canned" a Showa shock?? BTW it is great to have so much knowledge available from so many that are willing to share it | ||
| Trojan |
since you guys commented on appearance - has anyone ever "un-canned" a Showa shock?? You can't 'uncan' the Showa shock (although Suzi Quattro reckons you can 'Can the Can'), as the 'can' acts as part of the compression system (The spring acts against the can to compress it). If you remove it you are just left with a pile of wobbly bits that don't work  | ||
| S1owner |
I would not say cant. With a mill and some ingenuity you could would be expensive and time consuming but cant is not the right word. | ||
| Lynrd |
Thanks, Basti - I picked up a valuable piece of info there. | ||
| 46champ |
Basti I noticed by your profile you are missing a RR1000. I am sure you have checked what is the going rate of a RR1000. No don't get your hopes up I don't have one. | ||
| Trojan |
He said that Buell recalled all the coil-over shocks at the customer's convenience That is a H-D salesman response if there ever was one! Customers convenience really translates as.... recalled and removed before it broke and threw you off the bike into the nearest hedge! I would NOT buy this shock if it was one penny (unless it was for a museum piece that would not be ridden) See other thread regarding the dubious legallity of even using this on the road | ||
| Onespeedpaul |
The shock went for $330-something....HA, I should have listed mine on ebay too!! @trojan, please provide proof (links, documents, whatever) that it is of "dubious legality" to use a pre or non-recall item, for any vehicle really....IF that were truly the case, then any time you did ANY maintenance or changed ANY part on ANY vehicle using parts not supplied and installed by the manufacturer you could be liable...your claims are what sounds pretty dubious to me.... you live in england right? maybe Germany??? perhaps the recall system, vehicle inspection, and insuring programs all works different over there, but here in the states if you total a vehicle (car/bike/whatever) the insurance company doesn't dismantle the vehicle looking for flaws in engineering or recall items, that's just preposterous...they DO take possession of the vehicle to determine if the damage sustained would cost more to repair than the value of the vehicle itself, but that's it. I agree to disagree with you on the subject of recall shocks. you have your opinion and i have mine... | ||
| Kc_zombie |
Lots of talk about WP failures, but no real documented proof has been provided by anyone on any of the "WP Recall Shock" threads. Unless I am missing something... Another version or urban legend is an alleged falling out between WP and HD. Since Showa provides all or most of the suspension components for HD, well WP just did't fit into the overall scheme of things. Get the picture?? A convenient failing of a shock under hard racing conditions just provided fodder for the falling out and the eventual excuse to retrofit the HD/Buells with Showa components. A real windfall for Showa, I might add... I don't know what the real truth is, but I tend to believe the latter rather than the former. However, I am a cynic and believe all things corporate and political always boil down to money  | ||
| Onespeedpaul |
@KC, I don't think you're missing anything.... and to add to the general gist of what you're saying, there are loads of documented cases of the showa shocks failing both by puking their oil and coming apart the same as the WP is alleged to fail. it's really too bad Erik himself cannot settle all the rumours and conspiracies once and for all whatever the truth may be... | ||
| Hootowl |
I'm pretty sure Court dispelled the WP shock failure myth a while back. I can't remember exactly what he said, something about it being sprung too soft for two-up riding (the horror!), but it convinced me that I should find an original shock for my S2, which I have done. | ||
| Onespeedpaul |
too funny...same here for my S1...  (Message edited by onespeedpaul on August 08, 2013) | ||
| Beardo |
Has anyone really rode two-up on an S1 anyhow? I mean without being triple-dog-dared!!! | ||
| Onespeedpaul |
haha, too right. I cut my passenger pegs off the first day.... | ||
| Kc_zombie |
Ahhh, but with a twin tail...  I had mine worked over by racetech with a spring set up for my weight + the occasional passenger (my wife) and she weighs in at about a buck. | ||
| Tll130 |
I ride my lady on my x1 all the time not very comfortable but she loves it. I got permission to buy the new 1190 and a cruiser as long as she gets to ride with me on the long trips lol so I'm not putting as much money into my x1 anymore | ||
| Beardo |
X1 passenger seat is just a tad different than the S1s, well, the S1s ENTIRE seat... | ||
| Tll130 |
X1 is one solid seat aswell. Probably why it is a little uncomfortable but I am gonna be experimenting in reupolstering it. I'm thinking maybe some kind of memory foam or something I'm not sure yet | ||
| Trojan |
@trojan, please provide proof (links, documents, whatever) that it is of "dubious legality" to use a pre or non-recall item, for any vehicle really....IF that were truly the case, then any time you did ANY maintenance or changed ANY part on ANY vehicle using parts not supplied and installed by the manufacturer you could be liable...your claims are what sounds pretty dubious to me.... I don't know the law in the US, but over here (UK) I do. Using a part that has been removed as part of an official DOT recall because it is potentially dangerous (why else would they be recalled and removed in the first place?) could invalidate your insurance and would certainly result in an insurance company failing to pay out if they knew about the fitment. Knowingly fitting/using a part that has been officially recalled could lead to prosectuion for a dangerous vehicle. That is completely different from doing work or fitting aftermarket parts that have NOT been recalled on safety grounds. Over here it is quite common to be prosectued for loud/Non E marked exhausts, small number plates etc, so this would be a no brainer (I speak as an ex traffic police officer). I'm pretty sure Court dispelled the WP shock failure myth a while back. I can't remember exactly what he said, something about it being sprung too soft for two-up riding (the horror!), Not true. I know at least one person who had a WP shock break while riding. Also, if it was just a spring issue they would have just changed the springs rather than having to manufacturer a completely new shock. That would also have been a service bulletin rather than an official. The S3 models were sprung too soft for 2 up use with luggage (check the original specs and weight limits) but that is NOT why the WP shocks were recalled. Think about it  Check the details of the original recall if you can find them. However, if you wish to ride with one who I am to stop you  Good luck. | ||
| Beardo |
TII130, it's a joke. You haven't ridden an S1. If you did, then you would understand the joke. As it is, buddy of mine has a select seat on his X1 and it is very comfortable! | ||
| Onespeedpaul |
@trojan, have you ever heard of the Chevrolet/GMC trucks of the 80s that would spontaneously burn to the ground and how Chevrolet/GMC willfully covered up evidence of this? Besides that one specific example, manufacturers fight against all contrary evidence to avoid recalls all the time, and if you think the inverse isn't true where a manufacturer would recall an item to spite another company, you must live in a perfect world..... | ||
| Kc_zombie |
I knew a guy, who knew another another guy and he said his father's, cousin's former roommate's brother in law had a WP shock he bought on the black market break on him... | ||
| Trojan |
manufacturers fight against all contrary evidence to avoid recalls all the time, and if you think the inverse isn't true where a manufacturer would recall an item to spite another company, you must live in a perfect world..... Be that as it may....Buell did not try to cover it up, and were subject to an offical recall procedure regarding the WP shocks (not a namby pamby voluntary recall or 'service bulletin' like later showa shock troubles were). I was an owner of an S1 and S3 at the time and received my letter from H-D telling me NOT TO RIDE until the shock was changed under the terms of the recall as the shock could break with serious consequences. Would they send this scaremongering style letter if they thought they wanted to cover it up? Maybe you didn't own your Buell at the time of the recalls and have some misty eyed vision that Buell changed the shocks at huge expense and with almost fatal public/press reaction just because they liked the look of the Showa 'bean cans' better? I knew a guy, who knew another another guy and he said his father's, cousin's former roommate's brother in law had a WP shock he bought on the black market break on him... You can say what you like. Having seen the result of the shock breaking and the subframe collapsing onto the rear tyre (luckily for him on a straight level piece of road)I wouldn't be joking about it. | ||
| Onespeedpaul |
To add, consider the so-called 'clamshell device', and the following so-called 'short' shock....IF the first recall shocks were SO BAD as to require a "clamshell device", then PLEASE explain why the "short" recall shocks were not mandatory, but if you made enough complaints and got the right person on the right day they would change it out but sometimes (not always) charge you for it??? I stand by my opinion that the shock recall was a DEBACLE, and the so-called "flaw" is in the pull-shock design itself regardless whichever brand shock happens to be on it. I take my chances EVERY time I gear up to go for a ride on my bike, be it another texting or drunk driver not seeing me, my tires not warmed up enough, or the shock or swingarm or any number of other particular components of my motorcycle failing....and i'll continue to do so! | ||
| Trojan |
To add, consider the so-called 'clamshell device', and the following so-called 'short' shock....IF the first recall shocks were SO BAD as to require a "clamshell device", then PLEASE explain why the "short" recall shocks were not mandatory, but if you made enough complaints and got the right person on the right day they would change it out but sometimes (not always) charge you for it??? The first Showa replacement shocks has a narrow casting at the rear mounting eye. Some of these also broke or were found to be cracked, so BMC issued a 'service bulletin' that added a clamp device to teh body of the shock in order to strengthen this area. As far as I know there was never a complete catastrophic failure of these shocks so there was not a full official recall, as there was with the WP units. What SHOULD have happened was that the 'strengthened shocks' should have been replaced by the later type short shocks at service interval time by the servicing dealer. Thsi was done badly and wasn't checked up by H-D as far as I know, so some dealers did it and some didn't. Some fitted the wrongs shocks to the wrong models, others didn't fit them at all and left the 'clampers' in place. Please don't mistake the dabacle of the Showa shocks influence your thinking on the WP units. The WP units actually broke, prompting the full recall. The Showa units were found to be weak should have all been changed for the later model short shocks, but weren't because it was left to the dealers to implement the changes. This has lead to the situation we now have where there are still bikes running around with 'temporary' clamps around the back of the shocks that really should have been changed by dealers. I take my chances EVERY time I gear up to go for a ride on my bike, be it another texting or drunk driver not seeing me, my tires not warmed up enough, or the shock or swingarm or any number of other particular components of my motorcycle failing....and i'll continue to do so! All motorcyclists are vulnerable and take our chances every time we ride. However if you don't want to be as wello prepared as possible beefore you ride than you deserve to be vulnerable. Any component can possibly fail, but riding a bike with a shock that is proven to subject to a recall and far more likely to fail than other components is just asking for more trouble in my opinion. the so-called "flaw" is in the pull-shock design itself regardless whichever brand shock happens to be on it. Actually the design is flawed, but not in the way you think and is nothing to do with strength of the shock components. As the pull shock extends to the end of its travel it actually tries to bend under the force. This blows the shock seals in a very short time, and is what causes most of the failed Showa shocks I have seen. Even the best aftermarket shocks can suffer from this, although they have the distinct advantage of being rebuildable and fully serviceable, unlike the Showa units. | ||
| Beardo |
Those first Showa shocks broke at the eye. More so than the WPs. Hence the reason for the bolt on collar. The eye was going to break, but at least it wouldn't allow the bike to face plant you into the ground. Speaking of breaking parts, and crazy drivers. I have never experience a failure of any sort to cause me to hit the deck. I have however experienced the ravages of tarmac cause by cagers. I walk on a reminder of it every day. A once shattered left leg. Is this thread over yet? | ||
| Onespeedpaul |
Im not here to change your mind trojan, i was here to dispel the "could" and "might" and legalistic black and white that exists in a very grey world. The facts are that There were at least three maybe four variants of the WP shock, ALL WITH DIFFERENT SHOCK EYES. There was a blanket recall of all WP shocks. The Harley Davidson motor company cancelled all contracts with WP/KTM around this same time. How many known failures of WP SHOCKS WERE THERE? how many known Failures of the showa shocks were there? I choose to make my own judgement that my specific WP shock is safer than the other SIX Showa shocks i have had. Please kill this thread... |
