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Bandm
Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2020 - 08:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://news.yahoo.com/fists-stones-clubs-china-in dias-brutal-high-altitude-143504194.html
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Tootal
Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2020 - 01:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I remember an episode of Worlds best shooter, or whatever it was called. One of the guys had glasses that just had a tiny hole on one side. This acts like a camera lens shut down real slow to gain depth of field. I've tried this with just a tiny hole in a piece of paper and it works. Everything is in focus. So if you're in a well lit range or outside you could use this method to save some money if you're just target shooting. It should help with muscle memory for when you're defending yourself.
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Tpehak
Posted on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What is the lightest gun with magazine money can buy?
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Zane
Posted on Friday, June 19, 2020 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Keltec P32 weighs in at 6.2 oz. Put it in a pocket holster in your front pocket and its like it like it isn't there.

Admittedly, a .32 caliber isn't much more than a poke in the face with a sharp stick but you asked for light, not powerful. I've had mine for over 20 years and it fires every time. I have maybe 1800 - 2000 rounds through it.
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Rick_a
Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 10:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

While we're on the topic of pocket guns, two I would not recommend are the Taurus TCP (if you happen to come across one) and S&W Bodyguard 380. The firing pin retaining pin has a habit of coming loose on the TCP and tying the gun up. On the Bodyguard 380, the trigger will eventually fail completely...and on occasion they're broken out of the box.

Kahr Arms and KelTecs are sometimes bad out of the box...but the respective companies will make good on 'em. Kahr's are fitted tightly enough to sometimes require some break-in.

Most often...as is the case with most recoil operated firearms...user error is generally the cause of functional problems in pocket autos. The above are some notable exceptions.
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Zac4mac
Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One of my EDCs is a Bodyguard .380 Crimson Trace.
The size is perfect, the trigger sucks b/c itís full time double action.
Getting my fingers trained to pull the trigger 3/4 of the way then a small pull to fire.

Trigger does seem to be overly complicated so I can see it being a failure point.

Backup is a NAA Wasp .22mag.
Each has its own pocket, no printing.
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Zane
Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Back when I first bought my Keltec, even before I brought it home, I had a gunsmith go through it and polish the innards. Also had the blued slide refinished in a dull nickel. After 20 years of carry, it doesn't have any blemishes on the slide.
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Ourdee
Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 05:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I found a Sig p938 can ride in all my pants pockets. I have a habit of avoiding bad spots now that I have a choice. Grey Man if I keep my mouth shut.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Sunday, June 21, 2020 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I may have to go look at this new Kimber K6DC...

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/the-kimber-k6-d eep-cover-the-snubnose-for-today/
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Tpehak
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 12:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is a problem with small guns though. If you take normal size gun you will likely not need to shoot out of it because of it might stop the attacker once he has noticed the gun in your hand. Small gun is not noticeable and attacker might not have a chance too see it in your hand, and even if he noticed it, the small size might not scare him and won't stop him, so once you pulled out the small gun you likely have to shoot out of it to protect yourself.
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 07:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That's a false reasoning problem. Guns are not magic wands you wave around and solve conflict.

Partly because criminals are poor judges of risk/reward.

You might have noticed the riots and agitprop using the excuse that police kill criminals, when career poor choice jerks fight police for their guns. That's a guy or gal in uniform with a big, ( not easy to conceal ) gun. Wimpy civilian you, without the aura of authority, is even more likely to have your threat be misjudged.

That said, the running joke for over a century, has been that it's foolish to carry a .25 pistol. Because you might have to shoot someone and it would make them angry.

In real life, not movies, even a .44 Magnum doesn't stop violent criminals any better than a .32 ACP, psychologically. Poor judgment, remember? There may be a huge difference in terminal ballistics ( physical damage potential ) but that happens after the bad choices have been made and it's too late to prevent having to use violence to defend your life.

Don't believe the badly written fiction you see on tv in police dramas. Like soap opera, they compress lifetimes of bad choices into one episode for dramatic effect.

The procedures in those shows are usually massive violation of rights and laws, that would guarantee a criminal would walk away from prosecution. And the cops that break the rules to arrest criminals, preferring violence over intimidation, expedience over proper procedure, in any sane departments are given boring desk jobs to keep them from starting riots with their idiot cowboy actions. When they aren't fired and prosecuted first.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 08:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

First, if you have ever carried or owned or fired a handgun, you know that you never "show it to someone" to try and stop a crime.

That's called "brandishing", and in most states it is illegal. In ALL states, it is stupid. It makes you target number one.

If you are a gun owner, and you carry a gun on a regular basis, you understand that the first time another person sees your gun, is after you have ALREADY made the decision to fire that weapon. It simply does not come out in the open, until it is time to fire it.

If you think the sight of a gun is enough to stop a criminal, you need to never own one and never rely on one. Many times, BULLETS from that gun - center mass - fail to stop criminals who are high on meth, fentynyl, or any number of substances. Adrenaline simply keeps them going until their central nervous system, or their circulatory system, is stopped.

In other words, until a bullet shuts down their brain, or a bullet(s) lets enough blood out of their body that it can no longer function.

Period.

"Showing it to them" to scare them into stopping? Is a great way to get yourself killed.
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Tpehak
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 08:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So if you have to shoot you have to shoot in the enemy's head to stop the enemy immediately.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 09:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That is the closest to a guarantee, yes.

It is also a much smaller target, and harder to hit in the heat of the moment.

Center-mass (torso) shots are much easier (although still not "easy") to get on-target, and can buy valuable seconds when it matters.

The only instant guarantee is to sever the spine at the base of the skull - an even MORE impossible shot in the heat of the moment.

And, all of this is why using a weapon is an absolute LAST resort. You don't wave it around hoping to scare them, you don't shoot to hurt someone. If the weapon comes out, it is for one reason and one reason only. You have decided the only way to preserve your life, is to end the life of the attacker.

If you're really interested in this, take a local concealed-carry course. It will go over not only the physical attributes (using a gun, live-fire testing, etc), but also the legal and tactical aspects. Learn from a qualified instructor, in person.
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Rick_a
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 10:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Seven out of nine people shot with a handgun survive. Some will continue to put up a fight while they exsanguinate.

I hear of people's brandishing stories often, and it always makes me cringe.
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Decades of training in multiple martial arts and weapons forms, from a 6" stick to a 12 ga. shotgun, inform me that if you want to intimidate your way out of a fight you'd better have a tiger trained to walk with you. A brown or polar bear might be as effective. Anything less, including a tank, won't stop drugged or psychotic violent folk.

A close friend, a RN, Just got a job at the local psychiatric facility, dealing with people who are considered incapable of living in society, and trained professionals know you can't safely turn your back on them. Every day, it's high risk of being assaulted with intent to kill.

Another works in the State corrections dept. He's a young, fit, highly cross trained martial artist, ( we've competed, he's excellent ) and carries the issue firearm. ( where permitted & required )

Both could assure you that showing a weapon to someone who intends you harm is no guarantee of compliance.

And in a civilian context, worse than useless.

As Ratbuell points out, brandishing is a CRIME in many States, including New York.

If I'm seen to have a weapon, even by a customer in a store, restaurant, etc. by accident, as, for example, my jacket is snagged on a chair, revealing my legal, permitted, holstered, weapon, the police probably will be summoned, and I may be arrested and prosecuted. Waving a pistol around like Harry Potter's wand practically guarantees arrest and loss of rights ( they pull your permit on ANY violation, even if there's no formal charges or trial ) and freedom. ( at least 48 hours in a holding cell even if no charges are pressed, to years in a maximum security prison. Not the country club facilitates politicians are vacationing at. No golf or tennis for me. )

The best defense is not to be where you are likely to have trouble.

Situational awareness is #2, maybe #1.

Showing someone a weapon to intimidate makes you a criminal. And highly increases your odds of being killed, by criminals AND police responding to the incident.

And absolutely, seriously, NEVER, EVER! follow the criminal advice of Joe Biden to shoot into the air to scare away anyone. It's potentially negligent homicide, and illegal. His advice to shoot blindly through your door with a shotgun when frightened is advocating Murder. You'd be properly charged with multiple crimes.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 10:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And absolutely, seriously, NEVER, EVER! follow the criminal advice of Joe Biden to shoot into the air to scare away anyone. It's potentially negligent homicide, and illegal. His advice to shoot blindly through your door with a shotgun when frightened is advocating Murder. You'd be properly charged with multiple crimes.

Not only because you don't have the right to shoot until AFTER someone has crossed the threshold into your home.

Shooting people in your yard is a big NO-NO. And, legally-speaking, "through the closed front door" counts the same as "in your yard". If there's a locked, closed door between you and the perceived threat...you have no legal right to use deadly force.

But, that attitude accurately reflects the (mentally inadequate) thought process of a Liberal, when it comes to guns in general.



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Blake
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 11:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That said, something like 2 million people a year deter crime by merely brandishing. I don't think it's as loony as some might think, at least in some circumstances. Just not in all circumstances.

Pulling a gun in response to a threat is not criminal brandishing just because the threat flees the scene.

Who the heck is going to report that anyway?
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Ourdee
Posted on Monday, June 22, 2020 - 11:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Who the heck is going to report that anyway?"
The 350 pound guy with a tire iron I stopped from beating the guy next to me in Indianapolis. It wasn't fair that I had a gun. IPD officer told him to pound sand.
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Rick_a
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 02:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Pulling a gun in response to a threat is not criminal brandishing just because the threat flees the scene.



Yes, but most of the brandishing stories I hear are merely a mean person or scary stranger, not a credible threat...the gun owner being scared at that moment isn't reason enough.
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Court
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 07:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Brandishing also provides another, your adversary or any bystander, perfect legal justification to end your life.

Opinions, understandably, vary.

I have one Iíve followed since June 16, 1970.

Know yours and follow it.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 09:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"through the closed front door" counts the same as "in your yard". If there's a locked, closed door between you and the perceived threat...you have no legal right to use deadly force.

It's negligent homicide. Depraved indifference to taking a life. A whole pile of books they'll throw at you. And should!

A weapon pulled in defense stops thousands of crimes every year. That's only brandishing if a lefty scum attorney tries to declare it so.

Brandishing also provides another, your adversary or any bystander, perfect legal justification to end your life.

Yep! Reasonable fear for my life and other's.
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Tootal
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I feel like this is Deja Vu all over again! Didn't we just discuss this a couple of pages back? If I remember we decided that waving a gun around to scare someone was brandishing but pulling it out to use it, but the perps run away, was fortunate for all involved. As I mentioned back then, a friend has pulled his weapon twice when threatened and both times the bad guys ran away. In Missouri there is Constitutional carry. My friend has a permit and lived on a farm so he's very good with guns. Like Chris Rock said, "I like guns. If you have a gun you don't have to work out!"
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The simplest things often need repeating when there is ignorant foolishness.

Sometimes I'm the ignorant fool. ; )
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Court
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>>A weapon pulled in defense stops thousands of crimes every year.

Doubtless and, oft times, effectively stopping a crime.

But the "Eggshell Skull" doctrine stands and a person pulling such a weapon is always at risk of producing it in the presence of someone who's been on the receiving end a couple times and sees someone pulling and pointing a handgun as "being placed in jeopardy and having a reasonable fear for their life".

The very production of that weapon, in certain circumstances, would virtually guarantee that a person who responded by shooting and killing that person was perfectly justified.

Like I say . . . we all determine our individual level of acceptable risk and our individual responses.

I have mine. You have yours and hopefully everyone has, based on their experience, knowledge and needs, given careful and deliberate planning.

Some people . . .having experienced unspeakable violence . . . may respond differently to facing a handgun. 100% of that responsibility of what follows lies with the person producing the handgun.

I have "RUN" high on my personal list . . . and "hold a gun on someone holding a gun on me" rather low on the list.

Different folks . . . . as with everything in politics, abortion, elections or lemonade recipes, or EFI or carburetor . . . will have their own opinion.

I'm really cool . . in my sunset year . . with that.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Tuesday, June 23, 2020 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have "RUN" high on my personal list . . . and "hold a gun on someone holding a gun on me" rather low on the list.

The Existential Debate, should anything bad befall anyone here.

Counter that with Sheepdog instinct, to protect the sheep from wolves (in my situation, to potentially protect band and audience members from an active, mass-shooter), and it is a difficult balance to reach based on the situation.

One of my instructions to my band members and friends, is: should anything ever go down and require my weapon being visible/exposed, GET OUT AND CALL THE COPS. As soon as you do that, GIVE THEM
MY DESCRIPTION - I want Law Enforcement to know that I, the lanky cleancut guy in the black shirt, am a GOOD GUY. I don't want to be mistooken for the baddie, when they show up and see me (possibly) holding a handgun.

Personally, my training is to use it, then holster it the hell up while waiting for Law Enforcement...but who's to say when the LEOs will walk in?

Hopefully I'll never find out.
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The number of lawful folks who've drawn guns to thwart crime but who then have been shot by other good guys is a statistical zero, isn't it? There was the relatively recent case of the man holding the criminal at gunpoint when police arrived, and the moronic policeman shot and killed him. Yes, the lawful man with the gun was a black man. Hmmm...

Have your gun holstered when police arrive is a good rule.
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Ourdee
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've been in standoffs with m-16s where I had to talk the guy down. Ever try to talk calmly with the adrenaline pumping. A scared kid in a fox hole in the middle of the night is still a good guy. Sometimes not shooting is the right thing to do. And sometimes not shooting is the hardest thing to do. Thinking is your greatest weapon. I have tried to plan ahead by running through scenarios in my mind. It is best to determine your actions when you are not emotional. Train train and train some more. I train to not open the door late at night. I always go out another door when someone comes to my house.
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Tootal
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://fox2now.com/news/protester-in-florissant-a ccidentally-shoots-himself/

What the news leaves out is that 2 police officers went into the crowd to help him get to the hospital. I heard this on the radio this morning but nothing in print. Go figure!
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Mnscrounger
Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2020 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think Ourdee is dead on about in head scenario exercises. It builds a subconscious flow chart of " if then" reactions, which leaves your conscious brain free to process things like exit options, innocent bystanders, and shoot don't shoot.
To the comment who's going to report a "de-escalation by brandishing", I would remind that in many states the definition of the lowest form of assualt is causing a person to have reasonable fear for their safety. Reasonable fear is up to the courts to prove, and at lowest level it rarely gets charged. But if you felt enough fear to need to draw, you are a victim of a crime. The police at minimum need to know, YOU ARE THE VICTIM, in any contact regarding the matter. Once safe, you should immediately report it with as many facts as you can recall, so the thug you feared doesn't call them on you, with his three buddies to back up his "story".
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