| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Is this a government that you can support? Oregon Fire Chief Catches FBI Agents Posing as Militia – Quits His Job in Protest
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| Sifo |
Some clarification on the above report, but from US News & World Report. Glad to see some traditional media is reporting on this. FBI Agents Weren't Posing as Militia, Ex-Fire Chief Clarifies
I think the last line kind of sums up the entire situation though. It's really the crux of the issue.
And that's just the problem. When the government wants what you have, it's only a matter of time before they strong arm you into an offer you "can't refuse". Organized crime has NOTHING on our government! | ||
| Pwnzor |
Pure satire. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? | ||
| Macbuell |
This is all going to blow up some day. Maybe not now and with this issue but someday. | ||
| Fb1 |
Are any of the REAL militia members posing out there with shirts that say 'I'm militia'?? | ||
| Sifo |
This is all going to blow up some day. Maybe not now and with this issue but someday. Exactly. The breaking point may wind up being something seemingly unrelated, but will become the catalyst for things to happen. | ||
| Aesquire |
World War One started with an assassination of a nothing Arch Duke by a guy who wanted his country free. That's not what happened next. You really don't know what is going to happen when you start a fire. | ||
| Sifo |
So what's the difference between Occupy Wall Street and the group in the wildlife refuge? So far, 1 dead and 1 wounded. I've been hoping some facts would come out on this fairly quickly. Both sides have had a say in what happened by now, and they seem to describe two unconnected events. I saw the FBI giving a press conference, and they were calling it a "traffic stop". That's my first clue that it's a load of crap. Since when does the FBI do traffic stops. They also claim to have only fired 3 rounds. Wouldn't comment on if they were fired upon. I'm sure that if they only fired three rounds, they would damn well know if a fourth round was fired at them, and they would make it known. They also kept using the term "suicide by cop". Suicide by cop is seldom initiated by the police stopping a vehicle in a traffic stop. Witnesses from the other side describe a road block/ambush situation with snipers stationed off in the trees. The claim the person was murdered with his hands up and that hundreds of rounds were fired. I really have no way of knowing the truth in this, but it's clear to me that the FBI is starting out with a distant relationship with the truth claiming "traffic stop". I also know that it's common with law enforcement that once the shooting starts, every one with their booger hook on a trigger tends to join in. No doubt that physical evidence will tend to support one side more than the other. I would fully expect that the FBI would have video running during this sort of operation. I wonder if we will ever get to see it? Personally, I'm having a hard time getting the FBI's story to pass the sniff test. Here's one side of the story... http://freedomoutpost.com/2016/01/eyewitness-to-la voy-finicums-murder-all-gun-shots-were-fired-by-fe ds-as-he-had-his-hands-in-the-air-snipers-in-trees -it-was-an-ambush/ The government will have plenty of power to get their side out there. I think I'll pass on doing that work for them for the moment. | ||
| Hootowl |
"So what's the difference between Occupy Wall Street and the group in the wildlife refuge?" The president supported one and not the other. | ||
| Sifo |
I think that has a lot to do with this outcome. BTW, for the record, I am not personally supportive of how this group is going about getting their message out. I am however very sympathetic to their issues that they seem to have no recourse on. In part of the FBI press conference they said they should take their grievance to court. Unfortunately, that fails to work when the government has simply made stealing legal. It's always a worthwhile historical note to understand that everything Hitler did leading up to WWII was perfectly legal. Legal and just are not always the same thing. | ||
| Ourdee |
Things are not as they seam to be gunny. (Message edited by Ourdee on January 28, 2016) | ||
| Aesquire |
If you could post a pic and point out the "different costumes" fellow that would be nice. This stinks on ice. Note . Do not start a siege and then leave expecting not to get stopped. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
The part I don't get is the "Black Lives Matter" movement makes the claim that overzealous government agents ( the police to be specific) are killing alleged innocents with impunity. The people involved in the occupation of the Oregon wildlife refuge center claim an over reaching government is seizing property without due process or just compensation. Both sides, (pigeon-holed as the left and right) are saying that the government is abusing its power. Why is it that only one side is mainstreamed and the other is labeled as extreme? I may not agree with the methods of the latter, and I think the formers are backing the wrong horses,( their alleged innocents sometimes turn out to have violent records in dealing with police) but that doesn't mean there isn't a nugget of truth to them both. People wonder why of all the issues that could drive my vote, only second amendment positions of candidates matter to me. Here is the reason: Both the left and right are telling me my friendly helpful government is only looking out for its own interests, and would run roughshod over me if not for fear of retribution. I just can't trust a government that doesn't trust me. I'm not ready to yell conspiracy yet, but I wouldn't be surprised either. I just hope the few true journalists left out there will not let go until they have the story in full, and present it to the world. I just hope the world will be patient enough to hear it all. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
The world is to busy worrying about Kardashians and Jenners to be bothered by issues like this... | ||
| M1combat |
"Both sides, (pigeon-holed as the left and right) are saying that the government is abusing its power. Why is it that only one side is mainstreamed and the other is labeled as extreme? " Picking sides is for sports. Not politics. Too few people understand this. The moment a person picks a side and allies themselves with one or the other they're telling the government that they'll only care about half of what's going on and that the other half will be looked away from... So... About half of the people choose left and then look away from what happens to the right, the other half chooses right and looks away from what happens to the left. The rest don't give a flying crap what happens to anyone but themselves (I'd put this group at maybe 30-40%). We have three groups of about 30-40% of the people not giving a frack what happens to the other 60%. In all situations where the Gov is ••••••• someone we see that the majority doesn't care. WAKE THE FRACK UP! Start realizing that it's not a left and right situation any more. It's not me and you... It's - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgEqCzWhbYI | ||
| Bandm |
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| Crusty |
About half of the people choose left and then look away from what happens to the right, the other half chooses right and looks away from what happens to the left. The rest don't give a flying crap what happens to anyone but themselves (I'd put this group at maybe 30-40%). You didn't do well in Math, did you? | ||
| M1combat |
I did just fine in math... You didn't do so well in English? | ||
| Crusty |
About half of the people choose left ...the other half chooses right...The rest don't give a flying crap what happens to anyone but themselves (I'd put this group at maybe 30-40%). Half and half and 30 -40% How do you get 130% of the people? | ||
| M1combat |
I didn't Crusty  ... About half specifically implies not half and "maybe 30-40" implies not exactly 30-40. I also considered putting a tilde in front of half in "the other half", like so... the other ~half, or just saying something like "The other people" or "the other roughly half" or maybe even "The rest" but it never quite felt right so I just went with "The other half" knowing that I had built in enough "about" and "maybe" to give some wiggle room and give the reader the point of what I was trying to say. | ||
| Noone1569 |
You people argue so much over semantics. That video though, that looks like murder. | ||
| Sifo |
You do see Finicum appear to reach for something inside of his coat. Pretty poor video to get much detail though. No sound either. OTOH, it's clearly not a "traffic stop" as they claimed in the new conference. There were officers coming from the trees as described by witnesses. My understanding is that they were actually on their way to meet with the Sheriff in an agreed upon meeting. If that proves to be true, this is pretty damned crappy. That's essentially baiting them into a volatile situation. To this point, there had been less violence than what we saw at Occupy Wall Street. They also have very real unresolved grievances with limited means of having them heard. Escalating the situation in this way, at best, was very unwise, and easily foreseeable that it could lead to loss of life. Is that Murder? Manslaughter? I'm really not sure. I sure don't see it good law enforcement. I'm not sure when or why Bundy got shot in that video. That also needs to be answered. Video with sound is kind of critical to tell if there really were only three shots as the FBI claimed, or if it was hundreds as witnesses claimed. What is very clear is that not all protests are treated equally under this administration. | ||
| Sifo |
BTW, Crusty, some time ago you asked that I not get involved in your views around here. I've respected your wishes on that. If all you are going to do is try to stir stupidity, then stay the hell out of my thread. | ||
| Rick_a |
All this over an acre of land, aye? Crazy. That's some serious .gov butt hurt. | ||
| Ourdee |
It's not going to get better. | ||
| Crusty |
Ask the Branch Davidians how the Government handles rebellion. . This is nothing new. I'm curious about how the Federal Government is going to handle the Secession of Texas when it happens. I see that one rolling down the highway. The last time a group of States seceeded from the Union, we had the bloodiest war in our history. | ||
| Hootowl |
There is no mention here of a right to leave the Union. https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/annexation/m arch1845.html There is no legal way to secede. The only way to leave is rebellion, and war. There's still time to fix the Federal government, and its agencies. Nothing has happened that I'm willing to die for. Others obviously disagree. | ||
| Julie |
Here's the complete, unedited video which shows the terrorist thugs stopping initially, then unlawfully speeding away, then assaulting the Oregon State Police and FBI officers before committing suicide by cop like the weak, pathetic thug that he was. These thugs were breaking the law, assaulting officers, and got what they asked for. Any reasonable citizen knows that when the police stop you, the only thing to do is obey their commands, otherwise you will die. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Julie's back! I can't tell if that is a poor taste attempt at humor or attack Julie, or if you are now part of the "Mike Brown deserved to be shot" crowd. I don't know much about this group, and what little I do know makes them sound a little sketchy to me. But when the government comes out and says "indvidual shot during a traffic stop", then releases a video showing what is clearly a raid (ambush, whatever you want to call it), complete with reserve forces behind the treeline and a drone circling, then all of a sudden I start to wonder. Another account (no idea if it is credible or not) says the vehicle was shot even before it stopped, and that the individual who reached back towards his pocket did so because he was just shot there. I have no idea what the truth is. Hopefully facts will come out. | ||
| M1combat |
"Any reasonable citizen knows that when the police stop you, the only thing to do is obey their commands, otherwise you will die." Holy Shit. |
