The really important thing to understand is that the initial shooting had stopped before Finicum got out of the truck. He was outside of the truck with his hands up when they started shooting again. That's the part they lied about. It was one of those shots that hit the truck at an angle that couldn't be explained by the officers story. In the original video, right before Finicum is seen "reaching for his gun", he looks like he is reacting to something that is going on. He's turning and looking in different directions. Not really the body language I would expect if someone is about to target someone specific with a gun. Now it's easy to understand that body language. It's the reaction of someone hearing the crack of bullets whizzing past them while they have their hands up surrendering. If the "hands up, don't shoot" crowd wanted any credibility at all, they would be all over this case. Of course, to them, being white, Finicum's life doesn't matter to them. This was a murder IMO.
I live just down the road from oregon, the real estate is gorgeous but the legalism of that state keeps me from going there more often than I have to. In Oregon I can't carry or pump my own gas and that sums it up pretty well.
No doubt it's murder. What about the conspiracy side of it though. At least you have a conspiracy to cover it up. You can't possibly expect me to believe that none of the officers there heard the shots before Finicum was actually shot. They didn't even say that they heard the shots, but didn't know where they came from. Those shots were completely covered up by the officers on the scene. A slightly more conspiracy minded person might question if there was the intent to shut Finicum up forever in the first place. If they were looking for a peaceful resolution they should have simply let Finicum turn himself into the the Sheriff that he was traveling to when he was ambushed.
A little late coming into this debate but I would respectively like to add; from the first few posts on so called "federal land".
Now most of the land I use for shooting and recreational use, ATV's etc. is, here in Utah and most everywhere, BLM land. Now think about that for a minute; BLM stands for Bureau of Land Management. The feds from the beginning have set aside and, over the years acquired, many times illegally, land that they are supposed to only "manage". They were supposed to manage it for "We the people" who should actually "own" it. There has been, over the years many Presidents, usually very liberal, who wanted to keep this land for very specific use, picking and choosing just who could use it with many lobbyists swaying that concern. With many BLM lands being recently, usually through executive orders (not the will of the people), designated as National monuments, Federal parks, etc. One example is the San Rafael Swell, designated a national monument by Bill Clinton in mid south Utah. It put many miners out of work but has allowed us to still recreate in it and even with our use it was wrong.
There has been much controversy over those designations as it has taken away, from "the people" locally their ability to graze cattle, mine minerals, recreate, etc. which in turn has highly angered many who actually made a living with that land or used it for great enjoyment recreating. Now even when they were able to use it they had to pay "land use taxes to use it" and that also many felt was illegal as it was originally theirs in the first place. Many grazing fees are way too high and I even have to pay a "off road fee" to ride on "my land".
It has all gotten very complicated but many believe the BLM has become yet just another form of over reach & control by the feds and most out in these western lands believe it should be left to the "people" who live here and the State they live in not some bureaucrat sitting in an office in D.C.
That along with things reaching a fever pitch over various incidents created the debated wrongdoing. The feds have seemingly always resorted to shooting way too often from Waco to Ruby Ridge and have usually been completely wrong. This was at very least a wrongful killing.
Also for me, for the 35 years I have lived here, believe in what many others believe in and that is "multiple use for all and just "managed", very carefully for all concerned to use, protect (paramount) and enjoy whether recreating or working the land. I also believe the National Forest Service is a way better organization to recreate in from my personal experience.
More and more of these, below, on our land all over now a days, with some prohibiting entirely: This is where I will be Sunday morning videoing wild horses.....hopefully & carefully!
The video is bad enough. But to then know that they misreported the number of shots fired?
They have enough tactical skill and resources to have a drone orbiting, but they can't correctly report how many shots were fired? It's not rocket science, count how many bullets are left in your gun.
It's not rocket science, count how many bullets are left in your gun.
It's far worse than that. It's alleged that the first two shots were not made by the officers that shot Finicum. You damned well know if you fired a shot BEFORE there was any threat. You don't need to count your bullets afterward to know that.
Bob, I appreciate the perspective of someone living in the western states. I'm not sure how to make most people understand what's going on. The Constitution defines that land the federal government can own. That's basically D.C. and lands that the states have agreed to sell or lease to the feds for the purpose of national defense. I don't think even the most liberal thinker could possibly claim all this land has been claimed for the purpose of defense. It also hasn't been done with the agreement of the states.
This is a bit long, but provides some good details about the ambush of Levoy Finicum. It also claims that there are direct links to the Whitehouse on taking him down. I'm not the least bit surprised by that. BO did say himself about the stand off at the Bundy ranch that "this isn't over yet". He has also said that he's "really good at killing people". This article makes a pretty strong case that this road block was designed to take them down, not apprehend them peacefully. He was already on his way to turn himself in to a Sheriff that he was comfortable with.
And this, while dealing specifically with the ranchers who have become enemies of the state, offers some good advice for anyone that has to deal with the "friendly" questioning of an officer. It would seem that they are planning to arrest anyone who was at the Bundy Ranch with a gun. "If you like your gun rights, you can keep your gun rights."
Glad to see this is in the news. I really don't expect to see any real investigation done however. Finicum and the others were declared to be the enemy by our DOJ before any of this even happened. They are unlikely to ever investigate an outcome that they approve of. Can the state police or Sheriff investigate the Feds? Can they charge them? Perhaps they could. Would they dare?
that HRT members are trained to search the area of a confrontation for additional threats, such as unexploded ordnance, and they often huddle as seen in the video after a mission.
See . . here's the problem.
Someone expects us to believe that. They REALLY think we are that stupid.
I mean I was trained to search for unexploded mines, boobie traps, Claymore mines and so forth . . . but none of that training included bending over it and screwing with it then taking it to a little huddle and sharing the threat with my friends.
+1 Court. I had the honor of chewing out a hero under me while over seas. A bus ran over an ammo can with 18 40mm HE grenades. My hero grabbed the can and placed it in a sand bagged fighting position. I got the honor of explaining to him that he did good, just not real good. Huddle my foot. They are lousy shots or provocateurs.
HRT isn't a hostage rescue team. They are an assault team. The Government likes to use non threatening names to hide the real intent. Just like SWAT used to stand for Special Weapons Assault Team. They thought that was too scary sounding so they changed it to Special Weapons and Tactics.
No matter what you call them they are paramilitary units tasked with conducting military type operations on domestic soil.