| Author | Message | ||
     Hootowl |
Surprised there isn't a thread on this situation already. Top article on CNN.com this morning. http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/justice/ferguson-mis souri-police-community/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 Complete bunk. The author is an idiot. No, that's being too kind, but I'll let you draw your own conclusions. Why is there a white mayor in a black town? Um...elections? City council. Elections? May as well ask, "Why does America have a black president when the majority of the population is white?" Elections? Why does Texas have a white governor when the majority of its citizens are not white? Elections? Nope, it's the entrenched white power structure, and the police who act as a buffer/enforcer between the trod-upon and whitey. Race baiting should be punishable by 10 years in prison and the loss of a testicle. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Amazing how much not-so-subtle bias the media throws in. Listening to an NPR news piece (not commentary) on this yesterday or the day before, reporter doesn't say "when the teen was shot by the policeman" but "when the teen was gunned down by the policeman". They never miss an opportunity to color people's perceptions of the story. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Maybe no thread because the whole thing is so depressing. Is the use and deployment of miltary equipment and tactics within a civilian police force an awful idea? Check. Are a bunch of lawless youths continually creating really dangerous situations for themselves and everyone around them, but are then holding others completely responsible for when the inevitable tradegy strikes? Check. Are individual cops doing their best in bad situations, and getting crucified in the event they make an inevitable mistake? Check. Do a bunch of lawless thugs tearing up private property look like a bunch of lawless thugs that should get harsh and sure justice? Check. Are there people in the communities that try and do the right thing and get caught in the crossfire from both sides (cops reacting to what they are subject to, and thugs being thugs)? Check. In fact probably 95% of them. Are there cynical race baiters capitalizing on the situation, who will likely go to hell for widely inflaming people with half truths just in order to secure power, money, and prestige for themselves? Check. I just can't find anything in here anywhere to be anything but depressed about.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
I heard an NPR piece on it this morning as well. There were some good voices there with some good insights on how policing can be done more effectively, particularly in a racially charged environment. But there was an utter and absolute failure to cover any potential culpability of the minority community in terms of behaviors, norms, and world views. The whole thing was spun as if it were whites and police that created the entire problem, and that black police (based on the people they brought forward) had to fix the problem. It was so offensive, and ironically the ultimate form or racisim (in my opinion). Their unintended message was that minority masses aren't smart enough to control or be held responsible for their behavior, and the solution is to bring in some particularly bright and tame liberal house negros to placate them and put them back in their ghettos. This is an emotional response, and sounds really harsh, and I will probably regret posting it, but I was really mad at what I perceived as NPR racism... mainly because it is so slickly packaged and so effective in both forming beliefs looking non racist... It's horrible. | ||
| Chauly |
http://tinyurl.com/pxm97vc Conflation of guns and Ferguson? | ||
| Sifo |
TV news is now saying that the police have just released images from a convenience store robbery from earlier that day that this shooting "victim" was believed to have been responsible for. If that is him in the released photo, he is one big dude. If he got into a scuffle with the cop, I can certainly understand the fear of the cop. There's still a lot of unknowns in all of this though. The race baiting that is going on isn't going to help anything. EDIT: Police: Shooting victim was robbery suspect
(Message edited by SIFO on August 15, 2014) | ||
| Hootowl |
The kid was a serial offender and a punk, no question. But nothing the kid did warrants a death sentence, IMHO. If the police officer did indeed shoot him while he was running away, the officer's life was not in jeopardy, and he did not have the right to kill anyone in defense of his life, regardless of what took place in the car. At the time the criminal (yes, he was a criminal) was shot (according to witnesses) he posed no immediate danger to the officer. I would imagine the coroner can easily determine whether he was shot in the back, and from what range. I can certainly understand the rage that the folks there are feeling. | ||
| Reepicheep |
And while I am against a 24x7 surveillance state, I am now firmly in the camp that says absolutely everything and anything a police officer while acting under the special rights and priviledges police officers have should be recorded in as many ways practical. The moment the camera is shut down by a cop, the moment that cop is just another citizen (who still has rights, but different ones). All videos should be known by all parties to be a matter of public record. And the public (and the media) should learn that dangerous situations that require split second decisions are really hard and that mistakes will happen. Yes, I know this micro manages the cop, which I am sorry for. But if they are acting under the authority of the public, they must be accountable to the public, and their actions must be completely visible to the public. (Message edited by reepicheep on August 15, 2014) | ||
| Sifo |
The kid was a serial offender and a punk, no question. But nothing the kid did warrants a death sentence, IMHO. If the police officer did indeed shoot him while he was running away, the officer's life was not in jeopardy, and he did not have the right to kill anyone in defense of his life, regardless of what took place in the car. At the time the criminal (yes, he was a criminal) was shot (according to witnesses) he posed no immediate danger to the officer. I would imagine the coroner can easily determine whether he was shot in the back, and from what range. I can certainly understand the rage that the folks there are feeling. I tend to mostly agree with all of that. It is hard for me to grasp what happened that caused the officer to shoot numerous rounds at him. My guess is that it will come down to training. Training used to be, shoot the bad guy once and expect him to drop. Real world didn't work that way and lots of cops got shot waiting for the bad guy to drop. Now typical training is shoot until they drop. That certainly makes sense when the bad guy is pointing a gun at you. It makes far less sense in what many claim happened in this case. I do think the cop has some serious explaining to do. I'd like to hear that explanation. It had better be good. Nothing justifies the rioting and looting that is going on though. | ||
| Hootowl |
"Nothing justifies the rioting and looting that is going on though." Agreed. The criminals are simply using the chaos as cover for acts they normally would have a harder time getting way with. | ||
| Sifo |
And while I am against a 24x7 surveillance state, I am now firmly in the camp that says absolutely everything and anything a police officer while acting under the special rights and priviledges police officers have should be recorded in as many ways practical. I tend to agree. I understand that this car didn't have a dash cam. That's unfortunate. I'm on video when on the job. It can be used against me if I do wrong. It also protects me when I'm wrongly accused. | ||
| Sifo |
BTW, does anyone doubt that militarization of our police has gone too far? | ||
| Hootowl |
Not I. | ||
| Firstbuell |
nor I this is one of the 1st times that the talking heads even address the issue - however, little of it's in-depth & what our Congress has done is reprehensible it's literally outta control | ||
| Sifo |
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/micha el-brown-strong-arm-robbery-657032 So it looks like the "witness" who said the cop shot Michael Brown while he had his hands up was part of the theft at the convenience store. I'm still very unconvinced of what happened, but how reliable of a witness is the accomplice in the robbery? | ||
| Hootowl |
Who you going to be believe? The police officer, or a couple of criminals? Sad to say, but it is getting harder and harder to believe the officer these days. I hope the coroner can shed some objective light on what really happened. | ||
| Sifo |
Who you going to be believe? The police officer, or a couple of criminals? Good question. The answer might be neither. I'm pretty sure that if I shot someone in self defense, and kept shooting as they were retreating, I would be in pretty deep excrement. It is amazing how fast these kids go from good student about to start college, to punk thug committing felonies. | ||
| Hootowl |
Yep. Amazing that the press can dig up photos of these punks that aren't mug shots to parade around on the front pages of news papers and web sites that show cute cuddly kids instead of adult criminal thugs. | ||
| D_adams |
Heard a little more from someone local to this today, the 300 lb, 6'3" "kid" continued to advance on the officer _after_ being shot multiple (ie; more than once) times and supposedly didn't stop until the final shot and he made it to within 5' of the officer. That tells me the kid was quite possibly on some form of drug. Most "normal" people would either stop or turn/run away from being shot at. Another thing mentioned was that he was baiting the officer "whatcha gonna do now, shoot me???" and advancing on him in a threatening manner. After the officer had received a bit of a pummeling once, I'd almost have to go with justified shooting here. If I had someone coming back at me after being hit (and of that size) I'd have shot until the threat had stopped. | ||
| Court |
We don't know the facts. If we jump to premature . . . perhaps stupid . . . conclusions . . we run a risk . . . . of being mistaken for the pResident. | ||
| Fredfast |
The only thing you need to know is that he was unarmed. | ||
| Hootowl |
I disagree. An unarmed man can kill you too. If I feel that I am in imminent danger, I'm shooting regardless of whether my assailant is carrying a gun. If the kid was shot in the back, no question the police officer is in the wrong, in my mind. If he was shot while charging the cop, well, that's what you get. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&load=10120&mpid=84 I have no opinion on a shooting I have zero info on. I DO have the opinion that the "news" probably has it wrong. I worry about somebody deciding they've had enough as a riot rolls down the street towards them, and decides to make a stand and kill as many as he can. ( as many as needed to make them run away? If the mob is lucky ) Doesn't have to be a gun, ( although an AK-47 is nigh perfect for turning a mob into a panicked stampede ) could be molotov cocktails, a SUV, dump a gas can in the street and light it up... lots of ways an inventive and very angry fellow can use to make a bad situation worse. I am NOT advocating this, I worry about it. There is a reason there are too few grocery stores in D controlled inner cities. Insurance is too expensive, hiring guards to watch for shoplifters is too expensive, if you can't make a profit, you can't pay your employees. If for the same investment you can open a store in suburbia.... why would you open a store in Down Town? | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Fredfast said "The only thing you need to know is that he was unarmed." Are you serious, or are you F'ing with us? | ||
| Xdigitalx |
In the store video, seems like the big kid stole the box of cigars... gave them to his buddy ... the clerk saw it and walked around counter to confront them... but the buddy put them back and the owner didn't see that happen (I think) When the owner in the store followed the big kid to the door, he was pushed away hard (at his neck) and then the kid perused the owner after that to scare the owner... (a what you gonne do about it attitude) maybe that is what happened with the cop too. Forensics should tell... each shot, how close and such. Could be drugs. Also could be something else that happened prior to the store theft too. (that triggered his hostility) The cop shot him once, twice 3x...and dude was still coming at him?? After 2x, should the cop have run away instead of standing his ground and shouting to stop and giving the final shot? Maybe he should have let the kid chase him and run around the patrol car a few times until the bleeding kid passes out? No way to have enough time to think about it. Besides, what if the cop tripped and the big kid caught him... what do you think he would have done at that point?? (after already being shot by the officer 2x) I think the officer would probably be in a coma at least. Of course...this is all speculation... I have no idea what really happened. | ||
| Blake |
Someone that big and threatening you, no question it is justified self-defense. Don't know if that's what appended or not. The store cam puts it in a different light than what the media had cast it. | ||
| Fredfast |
The cop who shot him did not know he had just robbed a store. So that had nothing to do with the result. He stopped him for walking down the middle of a road. Instead of calling for backup, the cop became judge, jury and executioner. Capital punishment for walking down the middle of the road. I thought that they were trained for incidents such as this. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Should be obvious to you guys by now that, no matter what you say or how logical you are 0's buddy Fedfarts (ironic arrangement intended) will take the opposite side. Feeding this kind of bacteria only produces more gas. G | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
One look at FF's profile clearly outs him as a troll account. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The cop who shot him did not know he had just robbed a store. So that had nothing to do with the result. He stopped him for walking down the middle of a road. Instead of calling for backup, the cop became judge, jury and executioner. Capital punishment for walking down the middle of the road. Seems most opinion (not all) here has the cop ok to shoot and kill when the whole story could not yet be known here. If the above comment turns out to be true it will be the comment which drives a wedge between those supporting the state (no matter what) and those supporting human rights. Human rights are not there just to serve the deserving. Rocket in England |
