| Author | Message | ||
     Steveford |
http://homes.yahoo.com/news/dont-put-wrong-gas-mow er-blower-190000477.html Can anyone say, for certain, if this is safe to run in our Buells? The manuals say 10% is okay but 15%? | ||
| Satori |
I use www.pure-gas.org to find non ethanol fuel. they have free apps for both google and apple phones also. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
It's not like anyone that made the decision to foist this crap on us actually asked us for a vote or ran any testing prior. There is not a single station I have seen in Massachusetts that offers no ethanol. Edit> Went to puregas. Three stations listed. I'll look into that  (Message edited by natexlh1000 on November 02, 2013) | ||
| 1313 |
My '08 XB12XT is VERY susceptible to ethanol in its fuel. Runs like CRAP, and gets VERY poor fuel economy, with ANY ethanol in the fuel. I've been using the pure-gas site and their android app, which keeps it happy. I've even downloaded the station list as waypoints in my Garmin Zumo 550, although it's not the most convenient for road trips. All this BS about ethanol mandated by the gubment as well as higher and higher fuel economy being mandated by the same said gubment (mutually exclusive goals IMO...) has me wondering how cool it would be if the MPG tests specified that the CRAP ethanol fuel be used in the official tests. I'd MUCH rather eat the corn - or drink it in some homemade North Carolina likker - than put that CRAP in my tank! 1313 | ||
| Steeleagle |
The AMA is vehemently opposed to the 15% alcohol issue. Without additional testing on motorcycles the potential for damage has not been determined. The EPA "solutions" to limit unintended damage are not adequate. Details available here: http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/rights/issuesl egislation.aspx | ||
| Hughlysses |
I've repeatedly tried ethanol free premium in my 2009-engined Uly, and it makes no difference in mileage or performance, despite a ~40 cents per gallon price differential. I don't doubt that some of you see better mileage/performance, but why would it show up in some XB's and not others? Another question related to the pure-gas website: for my area, I see a couple of stations offering ethanol-free 89 octane. I've read in several places that 89 octane (mid-grade) gas is blended at the pump. I.E.- there is no tank of 89 octane, the pump blends 87 octane and 93 octane to make 89 octane. If that's true, you couldn't have ethanol-containing 87 and 93 but ethanol-free 89 octane. ???? | ||
| Ducbsa |
We have 87 & 93 available in my part of VA. The starting issue is odd; when I first tried ethanol in my '77 BMW, it started instantly on a frosty morning. I've only run pure gas in my XBS once and the ECM failed then! (No connection, I'm sure) With the lower heating value of ethanol - 12,000 btu/lb vs. 20,000 for gas, worse gas mileage for gasahol seems inevitable, but YMMV. | ||
| Steeleagle |
Alcohol, by volume doesn't contain the same amount of energy as gasoline. It's typically 15% less per gallon, pound, however you want to measure it. It makes sense (to me) that if you require a specific amount of energy to travel a certain distance and a certain average speed (thus eliminating throttle input variations) that fuel containing alcohol would require more volume (in gallons) to make the trip, since you need more volume to get the same energy. And while I'm not standing next to a dispensing pump right now, aren't they labeled "Contains UP TO 10% alcohol"? Maybe not, but that might explain why in some cases the mileage does vary. | ||
| Aesquire |
E-15 was a political decision, without any testing by car makers, or anyone. Simply it's a mandatory development of "food for fuel" that isn't safe in any car or bike that is not set up as Flexfuel. Let me make it clear. You might be able to run E-15 in your non-flexfuel car without hurting it. It MIGHT not ruin anything. When it DOES, your warranty is automatically expired, even if you bought the car yesterday. The EPA is doing so because it was told to by the Administration. They were told by the car makers that no testing had been done, and that E-15 would NOT work in cars, and would probably destroy lawn mowers, and other gas powered tools. The EPA doesn't give a damn. Nor does their Boss. F--- You. http://smarterfuelfuture.org/impacts/vehicles-and- small-engines?gclid=CL6Jj8LQyLoCFc-Y4AodL38AVg A study from the Coordinating Research Council, commissioned by U.S. automakers and oil companies, found that 25 percent of cars approved by the EPA to run on E15 experienced engine damage—and even failure. The study estimates that at least 5 million cars currently on the road have similar characteristics to the cars that failed as part of the study. Automakers, aware of the damage ethanol can cause, are now advising new owners not to fill up on E15. For newer vehicles still under warranty, use of E15 may constitute a violation of warranty terms, leaving customers on the hook for costly repair bills. Toyota and Lexus have even placed warning labels on gas caps, along with instructions in the owner’s manual not to use E15. Intermediate blends may also cause some non-road engines and motors to run at higher temperatures and experience unintentional clutch engagement, according to a Government Accountability Office report. There is some bizarre ruling that you purchasing E-15 is mandatory? http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/09/what s-behind-epas-new-4-gallon-minimum-purchase-mandat e Not exactly.... http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/energy-a-en vironment/249857-epas-four-gallon-minimum-mandate In summation. E-15 is so fraking bad that unless you clear the hoses at the gas pump of the crap by pumping E-10 through it, the next sucker behind you in line may have his car engine melt down on the way home to accidentally set fire to his chainsaw, house, lawn tractor, and family. Later this year, or perhaps right after the mid term elections, expect the EPA to mandate holding your breath. They Won't even ask a Doctor how that may affect YOU, nor will they care, since it's good for the Carbon Balance. I think Congress should make E-15 mandatory for Air Force One. ( but only in the tanks they switch to after takeoff ) DO NOT USE E-15 in YOUR Buell! Period. | ||
| Aesquire |
DO NOT USE E-15 in YOUR Buell! Period. | ||
| Aesquire |
DO NOT USE E-15 in YOUR Buell! Period. | ||
| Aesquire |
DO NOT USE E-15 in YOUR Buell! Period. | ||
| Sifo |
I keep wondering what countries that depend on food imports think of a nation such as ourselves that burn food for fuel. Especially considering that manufacturing ethanol takes about as much energy to create as you get out. This is like taking a perfectly good sandwich and destroying it right in front of a starving person. What emotions would you feel if you were that starving person? Now imagine nations around the world feeling that way about the US. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I imagine they feel the same way about the fact that we shit into a pool of clean, drinkable water and flush it away. | ||
| Strokizator |
I may be mistaken, but I think the reason for the alcohol in the fuel was for oxygenation purposes and not necessarily as a means of stretching oil supplies. This was after the MTBE debacle (not that this isn't just as stupid). I'm willing to bet that the emissions from the new EBR 1190 running pure gas are lower than anybody else's motor running E10 or even E15, so why not pursue that angle instead? | ||
| Ducbsa |
The Greens are more for making us give up the liberty of personal transportation than reducing pollution, so just comply and get along. | ||
| Iamike |
The other thing I am seeing is that we can't get 89octane. Even the ethanol is 87 and there was a story on the news that soon it will be just 84. Every once in awhile you can find a station with premium but we will pay through the roof for it. I wonder how that is going to work on all the premium vehicles? Of course, the main-stream news that was reporting it blamed it on the oil companies. | ||
| Ducbsa |
Too many high buck cars need premium for it to go away. Maybe sales were too low in your area and they don't want to have it just sit and get stale. Iowa seems to have a lot more E85 available than other states, for some reason.  | ||
| Arcticktm |
I suggest if you took the time to write against it here, please also take the time to write/email/call your Rep against E15. I did so via the AMA a couple weeks back, as a Rep has finally introduced a bill to bring sanity to this force feeding. I believe the push for E15 is from 2 fronts: 1.) ethanol industry (gee, I wonder why?) 2.) the renewable fuels act that required a certain volume to be used by certain years, combined with our slowing in consumption of gasoline (due to economy and better MPG vehicles) means they are coming up short vs. the law (which was poorly written since it apparently made no accomodations for a change in usage habits). We need to get the law changed, but that's hard to do when we can't even keep the government open lately. Stock up on Stabil/Star-tron, get the Pure Gas app, and don't let your fuel sit around too long. Fun. | ||
| Iamike |
You can find it, but they are few and far between. I'm just not going to drive a vehicle that I have to worry about the gas I put in it like that. Even if use an additive I would have to carry bottles on a trip or have to search for places that sell it. Just not interested in the hassle. Anyone interested in an '02 Mercedes C240 with only 101,000mi.? | ||
| Gschuette |
Contains the F word for all you sensitive girly men. http://img.pandawhale.com/post-30347-how-does-a-bi ll-work-meme-no-o-2xdr.jpeg | ||
| Fahren |
"...and I am sitting up on Capitol Hill, where I am stuck in committee with a lot of other bills...." I watched too much TV as a youth. | ||
| Sifo |
Gschuette...   | ||
| Gschuette |
The sad truth Sifo. | ||
| Aesquire |
Strokizator, the oxygenation requirement is mostly a regional need, but a national requirement. While the new EBR may be fine on "unimproved" gasoline, many cars would not be. We are really at the point of seriously diminishing returns on regulating pollution. For most modern cars the amount of actual bad stuff coming out the tailpipe is so small that it costs more and more to reduce them. But politics grinds merrily along with it's need to be seen doing something today about a problem that really was already solved by the end of the 20th Century. The result in cars will be smaller, more expensive engines ( with turbos, variable valve timing, etc. ) to meet the regulation changes from DC. For example, look at the new Dodge Dart, with it's Fiat designed valve system. Some people go nuts when you propose pulling back on bad laws, crying out that you want "no regulation" and "left unregulated" and other panic buzz phrases. Since that is a conditioned response from the ignorant and easily led sheep politicians count on, there isn't a lot we can do about it...... he said cynically. Sifo, I keep wondering what countries that depend on food imports think of a nation such as ourselves that burn food for fuel. Raw burning hate. Seriously, what do you think was really behind the riots across the planet that "the Arab Spring" was part of? The high price of food because of the food to fuel program. Revolutions almost always come in times of hunger, especially when the Dear Leader's class are the rich exploiters. And aren't they always? See Egypt. Tunisia. Syria. Libya. etc. Several of the Gulf mini-states had riots as well. Some quite nasty. manufacturing ethanol takes about as much energy to create as you get out. Why are you letting reality get in the way of idealism? You anarchist terrorist teabagger. You want to kill old folk and babies.  (Message edited by aesquire on November 05, 2013) | ||
| Buellhusker |
We have a rather large ethanol plant here in town it produces a train load (100 tank cars)of ethanol every day. They have their own power plant there that burns old ground up tires to produce a portion of the electrical power they need. From the residue they provide a lot of protene by product of the process that is sold to the cattle feeders around here so not all food production is lost as some would have you believe. And there are several gas stations that have E10, E15, E20 and E85 for sale. I have a 2002 GMC Yukon that I use to pull a 28 foot van trailer and when I am pulling it I use E85 for the fuel and it almost never shifts down I have ample power to pull it in overdrive. I have three Buells and a BMW K1200 LT and they are all fuelled with E10 105,000 miles on the BMW and 50,000 on the 09 Uly 25,000 on the S1WL and 10,000 on the 09 1125CR. | ||
| Ducbsa |
Comparing E85 to gasoline or E10 on a $/mile basis would be interesting. I suspect it is skewed because of lower state and maybe federal taxes on the E85. The miles per tank comparison would also be interesting. Your tanks are probably big enough to not force stops too often while on a long trip. | ||
| Aesquire |
Don't forget the diesel used to grow the corn. | ||
| Hootowl |
And the chemical fertilizer, produced from petrochemicals (oil and gas), used to grow the corn, that ultimately make their way into the gulf of mexico, feeding the dead zone. And the water from aquifers that we are draining faster than they can fill. Converting fossil fuels to food and then burning that food makes no sense. It would if there was a net gain, but there isn't. Not from corn. | ||
| Sifo |
We have a rather large ethanol plant here in town it produces a train load (100 tank cars)of ethanol every day. And that's part of the problem right there. Ethanol can't be shipped by pipeline. At least not one that isn't cost prohibitive because it has to be built from stainless steel. Instead it has be shipped by rail and truck. |
