| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
I believe the woman had complete and absolute control over her body when she stuck her legs in the air and conceived a child. (Evidently someone needs to draw her a picture.) After that, she has a responsibility for not only herself but for her unborn child. So not only could she not be troubled not to smoke while pregnant but she couldn't be bothered by bed rest when the baby's life was at stake. What the hell makes HER life so special? How completely selfish. Could she not think of someone else for 9 whole months out of her entire miserable life? At least put the child up for adoption to real parents who give a shit. | ||
| Court |
When we stop thinking for ourselves . . we are at the mercy of those we allow to take on that responsibility. No human left behind. Shame. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Could it be that nothing demonstrates our value as human beings more than the act of being selfless for the sake of another? "I am so proud of my accomplishment. I poisoned a fetus with my bad habits, refused bed rest in order to give it a fighting chance, and delivered a fetus stillborn. My life is now complete." She would need to develop a cure for cancer just to make her life worth a crap. | ||
| Aesquire |
Abortion is an assertive, pro-active form of Darwinism. We don't want THOSE people raising children or bearing unhealthy children. Going on the unreasonable assumption you are being sarcastic....... Why eliminate the children? Wouldn't it be better to eliminate the less than responsible parents? ( of course that kicks into the great Eugenics question.....) Ft. The smoking issue...& I know how hard it is to quit, is one thing. The trend is to punish the mother for irresponsible behavior. That frightens me, quite a lot. I also almost agree with the idea..... but..... When they come to put ME in prison because they claim that I ruined the genes that I pass on to the next generation because, say, I used an insecticide, or worked with chlorinated cutting oil..... Or worse yet, some shyster cons a jury that MY smoking cigarettes at age 25 made my offspring have MS or some other crap... ( see "John Edwards" in wiki for an example of a professional lier who milked b.s. into a fortune...on a like subject ) There isn't really a question that mom smoking is probably bad for a baby. There is a good question if "bedrest" is the right treatment for that ladies medical problem. A good question if the physician involved was truthful to the judge. I'm usually inclined to be on the doctors side....but I've also personally experienced what happens in "modern" semisocialist medicine when a doctor sees his patients for a maximum of a few minutes...by the demand from insurance & management. Sometimes tests are made to cya but never looked at. People die from overdoses all the time. I Know. When I went into the clinic and the doctor came into the room, glanced at me & ran out of the room yelling for an ambulance..... "I don't know how you walked in here, you should be dead" isn't the best thing to hear in the ER. Shiite happens. Sometimes patients are annoying and don't want to behave. Docs don't have time for that crap. I don't know if the baby would be alive today if she's gone home. I don't have the charts & birth is still a trauma & killer. I'm not automatic on the blame for anyone in this case, I don't have all the facts. Did she agree to the ceasarean? How many months Pregnant? was there signs from a fetal heart monitor? | ||
| Swordsman |
At 6 weeks a fetus has arms, legs, a head with eyes, little fingers and toes. I dunno what else people think it needs to be considered a human being. ~SM | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I dunno what else people think it needs to be considered a human being. Wanted. | ||
| Hootowl |
"I dunno what else people think it needs to be considered a human being. " They also respond to external stimuli. So yes, they feel their head being crushed before their brains are sucked out so the woman doesn't have to have her vag discomforted by her dead baby when they extract it. Sickening. The left has historically been on the wrong side of history: Civil rights, slavery. Abortion will go down as another black stain on America that people scratch their heads at and wonder what the hell their grandparents were thinking. | ||
| No_rice |
i was hoping for so much more when i opened this thread...  | ||
| Spiderman |
I always find it funny that the same people against abortion are also against helmet law... | ||
| Drkside79 |
This thread should be aborted. | ||
| Spiderman |
agreed! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The difference between a helmet law and abortion is the actions of one do not terminate the life of another. You want to cave your head in, great. Be our guest. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Has anyone made the "I held a woman in bed last night" joke yet? If not, can I be the first? | ||
| Blake |
Tough to reconcile opposition to the intentional murder of the most innocent and helpless versus support for personal liberty? Both views coincide perfectly with the inalienable rights to life and liberty. Does or does not the unborn baby have a right to life? Is an unborn baby merely material property subject the whim of it's owner, or is it a living human whose life deserves protection under the law? Seems to me that some people are much too eager to ignore the rights of the most helpless, the very humans who most need protection. The very same "pro-choice" rationale governed the views of the slavers in America and the mass-murdering butchers of the world who viewed people as cattle, mere property to be managed as desired; Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jung Il, and Saddam Hussein, approve. | ||
| Blake |
Why, because it presents strong opposition to the "Progressive" agenda and reveals its deceptive basis? Where are the emotional arguments from the "Progressives" in support of the rights of unborn babies? Why such an overwhelmingly concerted effort in support of a "right" to murder unborn babies? Answer: The utterly helpless, yet to be born cannot vote, but their murderers do. The murderers of those yet to leave the birth canal get a lot of money for their deeds. It's a sad fact that for some, when money, power, and/or personal convenience is at stake, ethics and morals are too easily ignored. (Message edited by Blake on February 23, 2010) | ||
| Drkside79 |
No because it's an argument that can only be lost not won. While I personally don't get offended by this thread and its opinions there are quite a few people on this site that may be. In fact there may be a few woman on this site that have had abortions and don't deserve to be demonized by you or the rest of your right wing brethren. (Message edited by drkside79 on February 23, 2010) | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Some no doubt support abortion for a womans right to choose but politicians support it because it is a limiter for people on entightlement programs mainly poor blacks. Keep them ignorant and needy and but dont let them reproduce too much because it will overburden the system. Its racism pure and simple just their desire to take guns away from poor blacks. Farakan may have been right about politicians funneling drugs to poor urban black areas. | ||
| Hootowl |
Why not? The KGB funneled drugs to the hippie peace movement. Useful fools. | ||
| Blake |
"No because it's an argument that can only be lost not won. " I cannot disagree more strongly. I firmly believe that this is an argument that not only can be won, but will be won through open and frank discussions just like this one. "While I personally don't get offended by this thread and its opinions there are quite a few people on this site that may be. In fact there may be a few woman on this site that have had abortions and don't deserve to be demonized by you or the rest of your left wing brethren. " Seems like yet more emotion-based argument to try to protect/shelter those who are fully capable of doing so themselves in lieu of having a frank open discussion that just may help some folks finally realize that we all need to step up in defense of the rights of the innocent and helpless. No one is demonizing any woman for having an abortion. When "Progressive" culture reinforced by wildly activist courts, Hollywood, left-wing womens' organizations (NOW, NARAL, and the like), the greedy corrupt baby murder industry euphemistically calling itself "Planned Parenthood" and the so-called "main-stream media" has taught women for almost forty years that abortion is a "right" and a mere personal choice, then no women should be demonized for succumbing to being misled. Demons need to be demonized, not people. "Progressivism" deserves to be demonized, but mostly it deserves to be revealed for its bankrupt ideas, its rampant deception, and its blatant dishonesty. "Also please before one of you tells me they deserve it let me remind you bible busting hypocrites that you are not God and therefore are not to Judge. Perhaps a few of you should actually embrace Christian ideals instead of manipulating them to serve your needs." Way to wage direct hateful insulting personal attack. Who here is a "bible busting hypocrite" in your view? One of the primary tenets of Christianity is forgiveness and we are admonished by Jesus himself to judge not, else we will be likewise judged. However "demonizing" or judging others as you seem to be so concerned about is entirely different from speaking truth, that abortion is indeed the murder of innocent, helpless human life, and ought to be prohibited in order to protect and defend the right to life of the most helpless and innocent humans in existence. Might that truth be offensive to some "Progressive" zealots? Yes, it is, very much so. So be it. In my view, the pro-abortion activists worship at the alter of secularism elevating personal convenience over personal responsibility and most horrendously, elevating personal convenience over the life of the defenseless and innocent. Their views are an outrage to justice and the sanctity of human life. I see it as a clear battle of good versus evil in this world. Yet you would have me be silent about it? Why do you choose hateful personal attack and dodge the questions asked above? Are the answers to those questions too inconvenient for your liking? I've answered your questions. Have the integrity to do likewise. Does or does not the unborn baby have a right to life? Is an unborn baby merely material property subject the whim of it's owner, or is it a living human whose life deserves protection under the law? | ||
| Drkside79 |
Hoot glad to see your back please advise me how the left supported slavery. Also please tell me who was even on the left back in 1860. | ||
| Blake |
The truth is that "abortion", the murder of the unborn, has been successfully euphemized and sanitized to the point where it holds no more meaning to the average American than do the terms "cesarean section" or "hysterectomy". The term "fetus" dehumanizes the issue. It's not human, it's just a "fetus". Well folks, five minutes before we exited our mother's womb, we too each were "just a fetus." Likewise the euphemized term "abortion" has been successfully inserted by the "pro-baby murder" industry in place of "killing the unborn baby". "Aborting a fetus" sounds so much more palatable than "killing a yet to be born baby." Some even many or most of the "Pro-Choice" mob are even okay with murdering a baby as it is being born. Please reconcile that for me! You partially deliver the baby to the point where it's head emerges from the womb, but instead of completing the delivery, you stab it at the base of the skull with a steel rod then scramble and suck out the baby's brain. Why not finish the delivery and allow the baby to live? Anyone? Partial birth abortion. EVIL! That heinous act is nothing but pure evil. God help those who practice and promote it. Other forms of abortion are no less horrific. I dare you to do the research. When honestly revealed for its true horrifically, inhuman nature, "abortion" is soundly rejected by virtually all. | ||
| Blake |
"Hoot glad to see your back please advise me how the left supported slavery. Also please tell me who was even on the left back in 1860." Stop trying to deflect from the topical subject. | ||
| Hootowl |
The Republican party was started by anti slavery activists, most notably, Abraham Lincoln. Freedom and Liberty are the bedrock principles of the right. The pro-slavery folks may not have called themselves leftists at the time, but they were. That Black America has embraced the left is a bitter irony. | ||
| Blake |
For the record, I too disagree that the woman should have been held against her will. They would need to show intent to injure the baby. I don't think that is possible. Too many mothers who smoke successfully give birth to babies. | ||
| Drkside79 |
I do NOT support partial birth abortion with the exception of medical necessity. While I am Pro choice that I cannot support. I tried to delete my personal attack if you hadn't notice. You keep ignoring the fact that i said from the beginning I don't like abortion. WHO THE HELL DOES? I support a persons choice to terminate a pregnancy either via the morning after pill or by regular term abortion. After that they can deal with the remorse or lack of it that comes with the act. | ||
| Hootowl |
There is never a medical reason for a D&X, the "clinical term" for partial birth abortion. The head is out of the birth canal. Whatever deleterious effects the act of giving birth is going to have on the mother have already happened at the moment when the nearly born baby is killed before it can clear the woman's vagina. You see, if it comes all the way out before they kill it, it is legally murder. It's a fine line, but there is an industry based on it. One that is protected and coddled by the left. Can someone please recite the Hippocratic Oath for me? Why aren't these doctors losing their licenses? | ||
| Spike |
I don't understand what liking or not liking has to do with it. Hitler may abhorred the idea of putting Jews in ovens. It doesn't mean he was justified in doing so. On the contrary, if a fetus isn't a human and isn't granted the same rights as any other human, why would you not like abortion? If fetuses are just clumps of cells, abortion seems like the greatest thing since sliced bread. | ||
| Drkside79 |
I choose to end my involvement in this now before it gets any more ugly. It is currently legal plain and simple. I will continue to vote against anyone who wants to overturn Roe vs. Wade. Please think of what will happen if it is illegal once again. Back alley abortions, coat hangers, or simply going on vacation. Either way they will still happen. | ||
| Spike |
I think the same thing about the murder of regular people. It's illegal, so people are currently forced to kill each other violently and then have to run from the law. If murder were legal we could just hire doctors to peacefully euthanize the people we didn't like. We wouldn't have any more back alley murders. | ||
| Hootowl |
That's a great analogy Spike. By all means, for the sake of the well being of the murderers, lets keep murder legal. |
