| Author | Message | ||
     Fknmagic |
My 2008 1125R was just diagnosed with the camshaft failure issue. I'm sure I read a bunch of posts on this issue but for some reason I can't seem to find them. Probably due to lack of blood in my head after being presented with the nearly $2000 repair bill. My question to the board is "Did Rotax do something to correct this issue, or are the replacement cams going to suffer the same ultimate failure?" I would be very grateful if someone could point me to past posts on the subject, or maybe someone who's had the same issue may just know the answer. Either way, thank you in advance for the knowledge and camaraderie of all who Buell here. Additional question,,,, After I get my bike back (which is in completely standard trim) what is going to make me happier? New exhaust system or Erik Buell Racing Race ECM? Thanks all..... | ||
| 1_mike |
$2000........!?!? I sure hope the labor made up most of that bill. I've got a trashed intake cam as we speak. And so goes the 2 rockers/followers. I'm hoping my dealer will "help" with the parts cost...but I'm not counting on it. I've got two dealers I buy from, but I trying the one I bought the bike from first. The way it appears, the cam and the two followers are the full parts bill. I guess the frame needs to come off the engine at this point. Not looking forward to this crap. I'm getting tired of fixing this thing. I guess, as someone said to me at work, "you can tell it's from the Harley family". I'm starting to agree. Mike (Message edited by 1_mike on July 19, 2011) | ||
| Avc8130 |
Have either of you tried to call customer service? I realize warranties expire, but camshaft pitting is a latent defect. One that isn't likely to pop up until service time. You could just reassemble the motors as was and sell the bikes. Up until disassembly, the bikes probably ran just fine...and probably will. ac | ||
| No_rice |
You could just reassemble the motors as was and sell the bikes. Up until disassembly, the bikes probably ran just fine...and probably will. mental note, add to the do not buy things from list... | ||
| Avc8130 |
Haha, yeah, I wouldnt do that either...but $2k is a lot to sink into a $5k bike. For all we know, there are 1k+ 08s out there with "bad" cams. No one has had a real FAILURE yet. Just less than pretty casting/finishing. Maybe Buell assembled them in that condition. Maybe the supplier made a mistake and Buell accepted and installed the parts on waiver. Who knows. All we know is that they haven't FAILED yet. At some point you cut your losses. Part out? You could probably get $800 for your stator/rotor setup alone to an 09 owner! ac | ||
| D_adams |
At one time, I could have gotten you a complete motor, throttle bodies included for $1200 shipped. I can check to see if any are still available. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Call customer service and see if they'll replace the motor with one of the 2010 motors that they have sitting in crates. | ||
| Sprintst |
Yah, I might just buy a complete engine off ebaymotors and part out the old | ||
| Avc8130 |
That's a good point. You could get a full motor from Ebay for ~$1k. How much is the cam and follower alone? There is a chance the Ebay motor will have pitted cams also... ac | ||
| Sprintst |
Send it to Erik and get the 1190 upgrade  course, you'll need a new engine case according to some...........  | ||
| Avc8130 |
Wasn't there a video on the Erik Buell Racing website about them converting 1125s to 1190s? ac | ||
| Yugi |
Camshaft itself costs $189. If nothing else was destroyed, I think it's an easy replacement | ||
| Avc8130 |
Well this is ridiculous. Parts are ~$300? Just fix the thing and move on. If you can't do it yourself...not sure what to suggest. ac | ||
| Musclecargod |
Does anybody know what the cams are made of? Do they come with any surface treatment stock? My '08 will be torn down soon and I expect similar problems... | ||
| Avc8130 |
Steel, hardened. | ||
| Zac4mac |
At my 12k service I found a pitted front exhaust cam. Found NO metal in the oil and a couple of foil-thin specs in the strainer. Warranty replaced the cam and the follower on the affected lobe. Did the 25k service last Fall and the cams and followers all looked fine. Fix it and ride it. Z | ||
| D_adams |
It's probably like every other cam out there, ground and hardened. Why would you expect similar problems? Flakes in the oil? Running bad? Odd noise? | ||
| Fast1075 |
You would be well advised to replace the followers also...or maybe call Jay at APE and see if they can hardface them for you. | ||
| Musclecargod |
It makes some noise at start up until oil pressure builds, I expect this is normal though. It seems the problems are related to the early models, mine is #144. I am just planning for the worst, hoping for the best. There are numerous materials they could be made out of. I expect they are cast, hardened, ground. Probably a chilled cast iron, maybe not. I was just curious if anybody had specifics on the alloy/casting used to manufacture. I may ion nitride any replacement cams if it turns out I need them. These cams may already have a surface treatment of some sort though... I think some of these issues could be from break-in differences between different bikes/riders. What do you guys think? | ||
| Fast1075 |
Get a new set (or a really good used set)and send them out (along with a new or matching set of followers) and have them Cryo treated. Forgot to mention that before. Sending the valve springs and retainers along would be good also...definately improves the cycle life..(it works on Pro Stock drag motors, it will help on one of these)... | ||
| Fknmagic |
Yes, I will replace them and ride the bike. It's by far the most fun sport bike I've ever ridden. Here's some background..... About a year ago (bike still in warranty) I took it to a Dealer because it began running 'rougher' than it had for the two previous years. As I said to HD Help Line and the Dealer... "I ride this bike every day. I know what it feels like. It's different." All I wanted was for them to investigate. We had a lot of conversation, but ultimately they refused!! Their position (based solely on the Buell technician riding the bike down the street) was that the bike was without issue. I just called HD Help again and re-opened the case. I seriously doubt they will do anything this time either. I think they should at least pay for the cams and followers. This is obviously a safety issue. Do they really want one of these engines to seize on the freeway? It's not a maintenance issue or they could trace each occurrence to some sort of lack of maintenance. Here is the basic cost breakdown: $850.........25K service w/o oil change. $1080.......Camshafts and Followers (parts only since the motor is already lowered for valve adjustment) I'm absolutely certain that when I get the bike back it's going to feel like it did in the first two years. This will tell me that the degradation of the cam surfaces was the beginnings of the original 'rough' issue. Onward.... | ||
| Dannybuell |
In 1980 at 9K miles I had the cam get so loud and rattly on a CX500 the first water cooled, multi valved v-twin. The cam surfaces were gone. Honda eventually warrantied the engine. German and Austrian metallurgy is generally considered the worlds best. Maybe they outsourced. | ||
| Musclecargod |
I agree cryo treatment would be another good option. I hadn't thought of that. | ||
| 1_mike |
Avc8130 - Steel....funny! Try again... They are heat treated cast iron. Just as they have been since Henry put a cam in the Model T..! Though some were steel in those days. The exact iron composition, no idea. There are many cast iron makeups out there. And yes..ALL iron (and steel) cams have to be heat treated before use or they be trash within the first 5 minutes of use. Fkn - An engine "isn't" gonna seize from a bad cam..! It'll run like crap and sound horrible when the cam lobe goes round, but it will still most likely run. And by that time, the owner "should" have already seen a dealer..! Talking just one lobe...the metal particles will be very small, and mostly picked up by the filter. Any remaining will hopefully be picked up by the magnet we all have holding the oil in the crankcase. It isn't a safety matter, unless you just keep on driving a pounding/clacking engine. So far, my dealer hasn't called back. Will try again tomorrow. May also do as recommended here...call customer service. If the cam is under $200...while not cheap, isn't too bad...considering the $2000 replacement fee. The followers/rockers shouldn't be too bad...price wise..? Mike | ||
| Avc8130 |
My bad. Sleepy after a long day at work. Cast iron is what I meant. Heat treated. I would hope buell would help you with the latent defect. I am getting concerned as this is appearing systemic. Ac | ||
| Sprintst |
so.........will the new cams have the same problem? How can you be sure you get good parts? | ||
| Court |
Yikes . . I know how you feel. I'm picking up my Ford F-150 and paying a $3,000 bill tomorrow. . . brings the total to just shy or $7,000 in the last 60 days. I hope you have better luck . . . the "Trans Fault" is an epidemic in Ford pickups and Ford is no help. By the way . . I'm clearing the garage of American cars . . I've learned my lesson about buying cars built by folks who smoke dope at lunch. That does sound high for cams. . | ||
| Court |
By the way . . .good to hear about the German Metallurgy.  | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
What time do the guys who work at foreign car manufacturing plants smoke their dope? | ||
| Musclecargod |
Actually the Model T had a forged vanadium steel cam. Pretty fancy stuff for its day.  Could there be a connection to types of oil used and cams with pitting? Maybe a bad batch at heat treat early on... |
