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Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 02:27 pm: | 
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Considering that I am at full lean (at least for my skill level) through the whole corner and using almost all of my front tire's available traction for turning, there is little to no traction left for braking. Relying on engine braking allows me to take the sharper part of the corner without risking upsetting the front tire by resorting to the brake.
Engine braking transfers weight to the front tire just like applying the brakes. You not on the limits of the front tire in your scenario otherwise your would lowside when you transfer more weight to the front tire at full lean, whether its from engine braking or real braking. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 03:01 pm: |
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this is confusing me.
from a few posts back...
You have a high RPM capable engine and are LOOKING FOR "engine braking" below 5K RPM?
Downshift and get your engine braking at 8,000-10,000 RPM. It's kinda-sorta the inverse of making power.
If you're looking for engine braking at such low numbers, I'm wondering if you are looking in the wrong place? (maybe with the wrong motor?) |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 03:05 pm: |
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Fresnobuell - I have been going back and forth between ECM's continuously for the last 2 months. 2 weeks at a time.
"Engine braking transfers weight to the front tire just like applying the brakes."
Yes Sir! The e-b-r ecm can use a softer front preload and be happy. To accommodate the forward weight transfer of the stock unit I dial up the preload a very small bit and all is fine.
With out fighting the engine, braking is a very subtle experience no more wringing the lever off the bar.
On my S1 I have done a couple of emergency grab the brakes and downshift as hard as possible over the years. In 4500 miles I have done one fast downshift-stop on the CR. When it happens, you can and will slow that bike down with a handful of brakes and the drive line if it allows.
right: motor, bike.
Who going to do 8000+ rpm's with an exhaust system on the street? With gas at 3.20+ a gallon?
At those rates Cops and gas stations are all you are ever going to see.
(Message edited by dannybuell on August 17, 2010) |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 06:04 pm: |
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I don't understand why there's an issue here.
BOTH forms of braking are valid as far as I'm concerned.
In a racing situation the goal is having the fastest overall time.
Less time spent slowing down or speeding up and more time at high speed is good.
A good brake system does that well.
Some canyon dancing fits here as long as you stay out of jail.
Commuting/city riding/most canyon dancing is done at lower speeds and much less need to "get there a second quicker".
Smooth is good and engine braking helps a lot - not looking for Jake Brakes, just a decent deceleration.
Items of concern on daily rides are things like making fuel/tires/brakes last a long time so you don't have to replace them soon.
Maybe beans&rice a few less times a month too.
my 2¢
Zack
As a sub-note, Loretta will see the mountains more and commuting less now that I have a Uly.  |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 08:07 pm: |
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Nicely put Zack, and I'd agree with all of that.
"You have a high RPM capable engine and are LOOKING FOR "engine braking" below 5K RPM?"
Yep. Don't want much do I  I just want some engine braking below 3500rpm, where as now it feels like the throttle isn't closing.
"Downshift and get your engine braking at 8,000-10,000 RPM. It's kinda-sorta the inverse of making power."
Agreed. And when I'm pushing, and when I finally get the 1125R to the track, that's how I ride it (kind of).
"If you're looking for engine braking at such low numbers, I'm wondering if you are looking in the wrong place? (maybe with the wrong motor?)"
Nope. Though maybe I'm trying for the wrong application of the race ECM?
The 1125R is a great, modern, flexible powerplant with a wide powerband. Among other reasons I ordered the race ECM to be able to use more of that powerband and it's proven to me that the motor will pull smoothly from as low as 2500rpm.
Eg The general suburban speed limit around here is 60km/h (say 35mph). That's almost 4000rpm in 2nd, a bit over 3000 in 3rd, and a bit under 3000 in 4th. With smooth throttle control I can cruise in the traffic in 4th sometimes, and the race ECM is smoother at this rpm than OEM, however due to the race ECM adding fuel to reduce engine braking at 3000rpm I tend to keep it in 3rd, or 2nd. In a way I've lost flexibility rather than gained it.
I can see the plus points of slipper clutches and of programming less engine braking above 5000rpm, but I'm still trying to see the benefit, street or track, of less engine braking below 3500rpm. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 08:31 pm: |
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I think the problems all started with people ordering E B R "RACE" ECMs and then expecting them to not perform as RACE ECMs but instead are really asking for improved "STREET" modules.
Heck, I've got an air-cooled bike and except in the pits, it almost NEVER gets below 4500 RPM. Rarely below 5. |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 08:56 pm: |
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Lemonchili_x1 - "but I'm still trying to see the benefit, street or track, of less engine braking below 3500rpm."
My only conclusion is that less engine braking below 3500rpm makes it easier for beginners with smoother up and down shifts at those lower engine speeds. |
Thefleshrocket
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 10:06 pm: |
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"You have a high RPM capable engine and are LOOKING FOR "engine braking" below 5K RPM?
Downshift and get your engine braking at 8,000-10,000 RPM. It's kinda-sorta the inverse of making power. "
That's not appropriate for casual street riding or for bleeding off a little bit of speed gently mid-corner. I'm not gonna go spinning 10K because I want to drop a couple of mph in traffic without using the brake. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 11:47 pm: |
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The general suburban speed limit around here is 60km/h (say 35mph). That's almost 4000rpm in 2nd, a bit over 3000 in 3rd, and a bit under 3000 in 4th. With smooth throttle control I can cruise in the traffic in 4th sometimes
What is it with people asking this high strung, short stroke motor to run at RPMs damn near idle RPM? It's a total misapplication of this wonderful motor. You want to cruise at 2,500 RPM? Go buy a Harley. |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 12:30 am: |
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These types of responses should be expected when you build a bike to be lisenced for the street. The primary reason for any company is to sell products that customers want. I don't blame Erik Buell Racing for wanting to sell the easy to use version ECM as the default, you can have it any way you want with Erik Buell Racing so who cares? |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 03:36 am: |
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To be clear, I'm happy with the 1125R in stock form, and completely happy with the ECM supplied by E-B-R. I got what I asked for quickly and for a good price, and it's a bonus that they'll re-program it for a very reasonable fee.
I am, however, still wondering why it's programmed the way it is for low rpm if low rpm isn't going to be used on the track? Maybe I just ask too many questions?
Highly strung? Pfft... 10,000km service intervals, flat torque curve, starts easily and idles at 1400, is hardly highly strung. But I totally agree it's a wonderful motor and at it's best when pushed hard 
"You want to cruise at 2,500 RPM? Go buy a Harley."
Hehehe, lol The Harley dudes would then just get annoyed cause I'd want a bike that stops and turns |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 10:31 am: |
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Lemonchili_x1 - +1
Aren't electronic engine controls beautiful, we can all have what we want. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 11:31 am: |
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idles at 1400
Exactly, and you want the thing to cruise along a 2,500 AND scream up to the redline at 11,000 RPM. I stand by my statement you are asking the motor to do something it's not designed for...
And I will venture to say the motor is healthier being run at the upper revs ranges than routinely run at low RPMs.
Don't know about you guys but the very few times I have had my R at 3,500RPM or lower, she tells me she doesn't like being there. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 12:50 pm: |
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quote:Don't know about you guys but the very few times I have had my R at 3,500RPM or lower, she tells me she doesn't like being there.
Mine is the opposite. Mine rarely if ever sees above 3500. If I do exceed that, it starts to sound like a whiny Gixxer, then it starts to vibrate more the higher the RPM. If I get it high enough, the mirrors become useless blurs, the needle in the speedo starts to dance, and then the handlebars buzz. Mine cruises just fine and happy without issue at 2500rpm, gets great fuel economy, is comfortable, and I am yet to get a speeding ticket on it despite it being a sportbike.
(Message edited by froggy on August 18, 2010) |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 02:40 pm: |
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--------------------------------------
quote:
Don't know about you guys but the very few times I have had my R at 3,500RPM or lower, she tells me she doesn't like being there.
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After 14 years on a 96 S1 my city riding is basically at lower RPM's. It took a while to learn the CR's low RPM characteristics. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 04:18 pm: |
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and I am yet to get a speeding ticket on it despite it being a sportbike.
Froggy, you gotta ride like a sportbike to get a ticket unless they are giving tickets now for just looking fast. |
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