| Author | Message | ||
     Buellriderx |
So a while back I was riding my 03 blast and decided to wale on it a bit. Result .. my ground wire ripped. And the clutch cable is toast but it engages a little. So I replaced the ground and still wouldn't start. Also replaced the ignition module and battery but still no luck. I've tried putting gas straight into the cylinder but it's still the same thing. It turns over but just won't start. I'll post a link you a youtube video of it a little later. When I go to start it .. it turns over. I twist the throttle, and it sounds a bit different but still turns. Any help would be appreciated. | ||
| Buellriderx |
here's that link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HvNprz5h0Q | ||
| Ezblast |
Did you check the coil , plug, and plug wire? - fuel, air, spark - you got two - sounds like - check & dis-able kickstand switch by cutting twisting wires together and taping up, and flip center diode - those two will shut you down as well. Do you smell gas after trying? EZ (Message edited by ezblast on December 14, 2010) | ||
| Buellriderx |
Yes .. coil is good, plug and wire are new. I got spark, tried putting gas directly into the cylinder, still the same. I've done the kickstand disable. What's the flip center diode? A mechanic friend said it could be the stator gone bad .. thank you for the advice | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
If it turns over and you've got spark, the stator has nothing to do with it not running (though it could indeed be bad). Something doesnt sound right on that video, but I dont have any more time this morning to help. Sorry. | ||
| Robertl |
Did you actually see spark or assuming it is working b/c new parts? Turning the throttle opens the air way so pitch of sound changes. Are you using the choke? I could not see the in the picture. Neither of mine will start cold without full choke. Motor starts off the battery so stator would have nothing to do with it until running and even then the battery would hold it until drained. It really sounds like no spark by either a defective part or open loop in the safety features. | ||
| Buellriderx |
I had spark when I changed the plug 2 weeks ago. And yes, I actually saw it. I'm considering just selling it since I will be leaving Big Island in a few months to go to college or air force. | ||
| Buellriderx |
Oh and I'm in Kona, HI .. so there are no cold starts for me | ||
| Kauai1800 |
Aloha Alex, Only thing not already mentioned by the wise ones above: I'd check is the actual battery voltage. It can deliver a visible spark that's not at full juice if the battery has dropped below 12v. I keep mine on a trickle charger usually.. Let me know if you decide to sell it. I've got a friend on Oahu who might want to nab that from you in a few months...once you got dat one buggah all fix, ya? lol (and why are there no 'shaka' emoticons?) (Message edited by kauai1800 on December 15, 2010) (Message edited by kauai1800 on December 15, 2010) | ||
| Buellriderx |
Well I'll keep your friend in mind. I'll check the voltage tonight .. and I know all the connections are good  | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Robert has good questions, but just to clarify: The Blast has an automatic choke so you wont see a choke knob. Unless its 100 degrees outside, its going to need choke when cold (unless you've done something silly like installing a #48 slow jet). Did you actually recently check for spark? and did you check for spark after it stopped running? Is it yellow or blue? If the engine freely cranks over (and its not 20 degrees outside), you have enough to power the ignition. Unplugging the headlight (follow the wires under the headlight bucket to the connector) will help if there actually is too much of a draw on the ignition (this is usually only a problem if the module is bad or you are running a high performance ignition). Just romping on a Blast wont rip the ground wire. It either frayed over time and very possibly from an improper installation. Try the much maligned starting fluid instead of gas. Really you can use anything that burns, but starting fluid will always burn. If it runs with starting fluid, then you have a fuel/fuel mixture problem. Did you check "Das Boot"? Its entirely possible that your bike backfired before it stopped running and you split the boot. It may be hard to see. (Starting fluid will still start it). If you have spark, it probably isnt a safety switch problem (though they can malfunction intermittently, usually it will start, albeit momentarily, if you have spark). Check for spark often! Clutch diode: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/201 64/55319.html Engine diagnostics in the very simplest form is Spark? Fuel? Compression? Has to have all three. If you give it fuel and you dont get any kind of pop or backfire, thats says no spark. Even with very low compression or wrong timing you'll get some sort of detonation. Did you time the ignition module correctly? Very often when they are bad it will show as an abnormal LED light on the module. That LED light is also a good diagnostic tool. If there isnt any flash of the LED, its an almost guarantee you dont have spark. "And the clutch cable is toast but it engages a little." ??? Did you fix the clutch? Its very possible you've been running without the ground wire for some time and thats not the reason it shut down. I dont know if any of this helps, but some things just arent adding up. PS please stop replacing parts 'just because'. Its a bad way to diagnose a problem and very often is the cause of more problems when done by the novice. No offense. I've just seen it happen over and over and over again  | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Sorry, I missed the part about opening the throttle during the 'YouTube" starting video. Good call! Listened again, still doesnt sound quite right, but..... | ||
| Swampy |
What do you mean by Wailed on it? How did your ground strap rip? How did your clutch cable break? Sounds like a carb boot, but if you put gas right into the cylinder it probably would have popped once or twice. Charge your battery it is cranking a little slow. | ||
| Buellriderx |
Something just hit me .. Kauai1800, how do you know my name??? I recently put a new boot on it and just checked it. It's good. The clutch cable was getting rusty over time with the previous owner. When I lost the ground, I'd try to start it and it got heated up. I'll go put a new one on right now .. Same with the ground, it didn't just rip but it was frayed?? Sorry, english isn't my first language so bear with me. I'll try the clutch diode and check again for spark. Thank you for the responses everyone | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
By frayed I mean it ripped over time and very often from fatigue (being bent back and forth). Or from rubbing against something else. To actually rip it would take a great deal of force. What you describe about the clutch cable is right on. It could have gotten rusty from overheating (because it was being used as a ground cable), but your post indicates you noticed the problem right away. Some people have gone for quite awhile using the clutch cable as a ground!!! I had no idea from your posts that English wasnt your first language. Well done  That could certainly make a difference in what you tell us and what we read. | ||
| Buellriderx |
Well then it did get frayed. lol I ben in the U.S. for 'bout 7 years .. gotten rid of my russian accent but still sometimes have trouble with english. I checked the plug again and there was no spark. But the engine does turn over without the plug in. Did the clutch diode and no difference | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
The next step is to check the ignition module and see if the LED is flashing as the engine cranks over (leave the plug out). | ||
| Swampy |
How does a Russian end up in Hawaii? Most Americans only dream of going there! How did the ground strap get torn? | ||
| Buellriderx |
haha When we moved, we went to Portland, OR. Got sick of all the rains and church problems there so decided to move to Kona. Simple as that. It looks like it got worn out over time. | ||
| Buellriderx |
I took the spark out and cranked the engine. The led light on the module blinks steadily. Same with the plug in. Maybe a bad coil?... | ||
| Swampy |
A couple of warnings.... You want to check for a steady spark at the spark plug. Make sure that the plug is well grounded. Sometimes, with electronic ignitions, if you do not have a "ground" either through a spark plug, or directly to ground, and you crank the engine, some ignition systems will be damaged by back feeding the high voltage spark through the ignition module. I don't know if that is the case with the Blast ignition, I know I have probably cause some pretty big gaps to be jumped and both Blasts are still putting along, but it is good shop practice to have a well grounded spark plug attached or the lead directly shorted to ground. Oh.....that was one, but long enough to be two... Usually a coil will fail all at once. But again, what you are looking for is a good spark at a well grounded plug, that will tell you if you need to look further into the ignition system. If you don't have a good spark, the next easiest place to look to see if you are not getting a spark at the well grounded spark plug is to see if the LED is Blinking, if that isn't blinking then you can start diagnosing the problem there. | ||
| Robertl |
Quick update: I've been working on our Blast also for a different issue (not running well and cutting out).... It has a manual choke b/c the previous owner swapped the carb. I was lucky to get the original back to test with. A fellow Harley neighbor volunteered to work on it since my spare time was limited (work and school). He wanted me to replace the ignition module and coil week before last and I declined b/c of the cost. Last week he wanted me to replace just the coil. Come to find out, the plug had gone bad during all of the testing/work. * I got hit by the coil so I can truly say it is working. * Spark is steady and strong. * Spray of starter fluid and it fires right up and runs until that is gone. The moral of the story is break down the process to simple terms, diagnose each part of the process (air, fuel, spark) until you find the root cause. In my case, the spark plug failed during all of the testing and complicated things. If I have to replace parts as a guess, it is going to be the cheap parts first. | ||
| Buellriderx |
Well I'm out of town for a few weeks working so nothin' is been done to it now .. I'll try again once I get back. Thanx! | ||
| Cvc |
I hope this is not your problem but cap your exhaust with your hand or stick your finger in the spark plug hole and have someone crank the engine This simple "test" will verify compression by blowing your hand off the exhaust or you wont be able to hold the compression in the cylinder with your finger. I bought my second Blast with less than 1000mi on a dealer performed top end rebuild, turned out an improperly installed boot caused an extremely lean condition burning the piston and head, I took the bike back to the dealer who said the damage was caused by a loss of oil pressure and the entire engine needed to be rebuilt and not their fault (14k mi.on the bike), but oil pressure was fine cranking and I replaced the top end against their recommendation with lo-mile used and the bike runs great... sorry I rattled .... check basics and good luck | ||
| Ezblast |
fixed - talked through - lol EZ | ||
| Horn |
Fist time poster. I've had my Blast since Late summer 2010 (9/1/11) and have placed 5000 miles on since, even without the last four weeks inability to have my bike start (see below). Anyway. I've had the exact issue with my 2006 Blast. Currently it is residing in my garage with ~8200 miles. I was riding on the freeway in 100 degree heat about a month ago, and I could feel it starting to sputter and lose power. I took the next exit and three-fourths of the way up the ramp my bike just turned off. I still had over a gallon of gas, oil levels were fine. Just flat out quit. I get the bike towed to my friends place. A few days later, a new Das Boot and spark plug later. Nothing. I loosened my primary and it started right up. After it started, I readjusted using the Ear-method. I figured I fixed the issue. 80 miles later, same thing happened. Sputtered and died. Replaced Ignition Module. Still the bike wont start. My bike currently sounds exactly like Buellriderx's youtube video. I noticed no spark and replaced with stock spark plug again, still nadda. I've done all the recommendations in this thread to no avail. I'm thinking it may be a coil issue? How did Buellriderx fix this Ezblast? Thanks for your help. Once I get this fixed, if it's not simple or an user error (very likely), I'm thinking about selling. (Message edited by Horn on August 19, 2011) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Welcome Horn! Freeway? Is this a California Blast? You are correct in thinking its electrical since it happens when hot and you dont have spark. Ignition modules are what usually fail on the Blast and not coils, so that was a good assumption there. Spark plugs dont usually go bad from heat (unless extreme, but you'd have worse problems) and unless you have an LED flash at the ignition module, you wont ever get spark. Its important to diagnose the problem while its happening. At this point it sounds as if you're at the "replace everything" stage of repair, which is bad as you might just create more problems and get further away from the real problem. If you still dont have a flash at the LED, check to see if everything has power: trace the problem. Sometimes the bank angle sensor (BAS) will go bad and cut power to the ignition module. Sometimes the wires going to the carb (TPS and auto enrichener) will wear through and could ground out or break (though, without checking the wiring diagram I dont know if that would cut the ignition module power, but they are on the same system). So: Does the LED flash? If yes does it have spark (you can use another good spark plug to test this. You dont have to pull the plug and almost any plug (or screwdriver) will work). At this point without further diagnostic information it would be impossible to try and tell you whats wrong. | ||
| Horn |
@Gearheaderiko: As far as I know, this is not a California bike. I bought from a MN resident, and they were sole owners of the bike. Additionally, I have not done any mods to the bike, nor have I touched the carb. The Ignition Module LED light does flash. The spark plug works (the engine was wanting to turn over and heating up with both plugs (new and old)); I will re-check when I get home tonight. I disconnected the BAS and Kickstand Safety Switch. I also was able to call Ed (Ezblast) on Saturday, but with a wedding for my brother, I was unable to perform much testing. I will be using some Starter Fluid tonight and will view the wires going to the carb (TPS and auto enrichener). I have self-diagnosed using this forum. I don't plan on the "replace everything" form of repair. I went back and redid everything I've already touched/"fixed" without doing any more purchasing. At this point, hopefully I can find the source of the issue with all of your help. (Message edited by Horn on August 22, 2011) | ||
| Horn |
Got home from work after perseverating on how to fix my bike. I decided to work on the bike for a few hours and "re-do" - yes, again - what I've already done. So I took off the air-box to re-seat the Manifold coupler (das boot), cleaned the grounds, popped the headlight fuse and turned the center diode and ensured the new Ignition Module LED was flashing (it was) and checked spark plug for spark (there was). After all was said it done, the engine was cranking and warming but not starting - nothing new, still sputtering barely even "trying to crank over." The Ignition box was heating up as well. Next thing I know, I am running a low battery. I hook it up to a portable battery jumper for vehicles. Foolishly, I tried to start the bike again. And again. And a again (at different times). After the second try my bike backfired hard. Scared the crap outta me. Legitimately have never heard my bike backfire. I tried again shortly there after, and I started to notice that the bike had more "umpf" when trying to star but still would not turn over. Following up with Ezblast's phone call and recommendation of buying a new battery - I still have the 2006 OEM batter - I called around. It was getting late, so I called to a local O'Reilly Auto parts store and they can't find the battery listed in their inventory. Nevertheless, I still don't have the new battery. I did a bit of searching on-line and found: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0021TBT30/ref=ox _sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER I am also planning on buying the Jr. Trickle Charge Unit (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CITK8S/ref=ox _sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER) At least that is if this makes sense? The battery is $25-$30 (after taxes) (Message edited by Horn on August 23, 2011) | ||
| Robertl |
The stock Blast backfires quite often which is why the das boot is a frequent failure. You probably didn't realize it was backfiring but it definitely will get your attention when you are sitting on front of the carb with the air box cover off. If you are getting spark now, a little fuel or starting fluid in the carb should at least let it fire up a second or three. I spent a month or more working on my wife's. First it was a dirty carb which also happened to be jetted completely wrong (sporty carb). Neighbor rebuilt it and lost the needle jet so it then started but flooded. He said buy a coil and ignition module ($200-300 total). The Blast is rather simple in terms of design but there are a lot of variables so try to remain patient. It sometimes helps to keep a list of things done and when. When you said it began losing power while cruising and then cut out, I had 2 thoughts: 1. ran out of gas (trash in carb stopped up a jet). 2. ignition over heated or shorted out We have issues with fuel delivery b/c of the way the gas inlet is pointed on the sporty carb but keeping the tank above half tank gives it enough pressure to take care of it. Hope that helps and don't give up. Robert |
