| Author | Message | ||
     Gearheaderiko |
Sounds like they didnt do the clutch adjustment, clutch cable adjustment or primary chain adjustment correctly (or all 3). "if I let them fix it, and get a receipt (such receipt being specific that I brought it in for clutch/shifting issues), then I can always take it back with the the idea that I paid for them to fix what I brought it in for, and if not fixed, it was not repaired. " Your quote and true. I do hope they dont give you the run around. You could try the clutch and primary adjustments yourself and if it doesnt work take it back (you just need to keep quiet about your adjustments). What they'll actually tell you I dont know. Sadly, with the manual being wrong and dealers having a poor track record with Blasts, we dont have much faith in them  | ||
| Robi |
Thanks. I'm going to see how much time I have tonight or tomorrow after class and work. I called, and they want me to be "drop it off." Geeze. It's supposed to be sunny all week, and you guys just had it for 2 weeks. I would think I should be able to bring it in and wait for the thing to get fixed. I have plenty of reading to do while I wait. My concern is the comments by the person I talked to. He said, it sounded like the dog pawls were misaligned. I'm afraid they are going to try to charge me for more labor. When it was in the last time, I told the guy I brought it in for the clutch and loud shifting. This is during the conversation when I was hit with the $500+ estimate. During that previous conversation, he said the shifting noise was from the dog pawls being worn, and these bikes are loud, and to fix it you'd have to tear the engine apart. I'm concerned if I take it in for shifting issues that didn't exist when I originally brought it in I'm going to get another phone call with a $500 estimate for them taking it apart to figure out what's wrong. In an attempt to prepare, I'll ask a few questions: When they adjusted the clutch or replaced the rotor assembly, could they have done something that messed with the alignment of the dog pawls? Or, are the symptoms I am having just from a poorly adjusted clutch? My bike has 10,000 miles on it. On a side note, the guy was surprise when I brought it in, the most they've seen was 5,000. Anyhow, I have a feeling it's about due for a new clutch cable. Is it possible that the adjustment they did was proper, since they (hopefully) test rode it and because the problem seems to have progressed through the week? Could it be that the cable is loose and not holding its adjustment? When adjusting the clutch (if I try again), the manual says: "Turn the adjusting screw counterclockwise until it lightly bottoms." Swampy said: Your internal clutch adjustment is too loose. When you turn your adjustment screw out it will firm up or get hard to turn, at that point you turn the adjustment screw back in 1/4 turn and set your lock nut. What's the best way to conceptualize the amount of tension I should feel? I'm imagining holding the small screw driver with only my thumb and index finger, as if I were working on a small watch or clock. That is the amount of force I am conceptualizing to gauge what is meant by "lightly bottoms," "firm up," or "hard to turn." Does this sound accurate? Or am I over analyzing this? | ||
| Reuel |
On your clutch adjustment, as soon as it lightly bottoms, it will become hard to turn. Once it stops, I turn mine back to the next available spot in the lock nut. Go with what Swampy said. The only problem I've ever had with my clutch cable is breakage. Don't go replacing parts that don't need it. I've found that ripping into my Blast, despite how much longer I take than an experienced technician, is always quicker than that one week or more backlog that the local monkeys take to break my Blast some more. At least I know exactly where to start looking when I do something wrong. | ||
| Ezblast |
yes - you are correct concerning the pressure used, and if that doesn't work out well, then I would buy 1 qt of oil - 15/50, 1 primary gasket, 1 primary inspection cover gasket, 1 shift shaft seal, 1 detent plate, 1 detent clip, 1 o-ring for the drain plug, 1 primary tensioner shoe. Pop off the primary cover, take the clutch/chain/rotor off as an assembly - you'll need to make the special tool - 5 bucks at a hardware store and filing the edges - lol - to hold the basket/rotor in place while loosening/removing the nuts - one is reverse threaded, check and make sure all your drum pins are the same length - any that are longer put a drop of red locktite on and tap back in gently till desired length, replace detent plate and clip, remove and chamfer edges of the stator wire protection plate - lol, do shift pawl adjustment per manual, reassemble and put on new primary adjuster shoe, do clutch adjustment, fill with oil to bottom of teeth - bike level, do primary adjustment book method plus 8 flats, adjust cable, ride at least 1/2 hr, then do primary adjustment by the sound method, ride 1/2 hr more. Stop, have your favorite beverage, rest then ride about an hour more, then reset torque wrench for cover bolts minimum torque and re-torque in sequence in manual. Done. Your bike will now shift better than new - go figure - I guess the factory guys are too busy to do it right the first time. I say this because every Blast this has ever been done to shifts better than new. EZ (Message edited by ezblast on September 16, 2008) | ||
| Robi |
Agree with both. I guess I'm not doing any damage (right now) by not being able to shift into first without a conscious effort. I'm going to run your responses by my brother in law. He knows what he's doing and has all the tools necessary. If he's interested in helping me, I think I'll take your advise and try to get it done myself. (However, as I type, I shake my head, because I paid them to fix it . . . right?) | ||
| Ezblast |
Yeah - that was my problem as well - gee I paid you to fix this, and then you get that blank look - lol EZ | ||
| Robi |
EZ - are the directions you have above complete? Or is somewhere else on the forum? Can you give more detail about the special tool needed? | ||
| Ezblast |
1/8" x 1" x 4 1/4" long piece of metal - steel or alum., sand the edges that are going to hold the gear teeth - rounding them so they wont hurt the gear teeth - That is an outline of the directions, any specifics needed can be found in the manual - by that I mean torque specs., the shift pawl adjustment, etc. The few extra things like the chamfering the edges of the Stator wire protection plate is just plain good preventive maintenance. EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Sorry, I dont have time to post at length. In brief: Make it VERY CLEAR that you are not willing to pay for them to take it apart AGAIN and diagnose more problems or the same problems you brought it in for. Fixing the transmission clearly isnt worth it and I'm very DOUBTful its the tranny. Again, Do Not Pay for them to take it apart and leave you again with the only option of paying them to put it back together. If we (Badweb Thumpers) have an excellent success rate of diagnosing problems ONLINE, then they can surely do it (to some degree of accuracy) with a physical, non invasive, assessment. Again, sorry for the brevity and I didnt read the other posts | ||
| Swampy |
Gosh! Where is Court when you need him? | ||
| Robi |
That's 1 for do it myself. 1 for take it in. What's your take Swampy, or anyone else? It's supposed to (might) rain this weekend. If I can find a ride, I might drop it off. Some other things I noticed on this morning's ride. Only problem getting into first, was when I brought it up into neutral (was just checking it), and then had problem putting it back into first. Otherwise down shifting (into first) was successful for the morning commute. I'm noticing that when I down shift, I'm feeling 2 distinct points of resistance. I'm not sure if that's the best wording, but it used to be "click" or "thunk" down. Now it's "tap-click," or "tap-clunk" down. Honestly, I don't know if I'm hearing that extra step, but I'm feeling it. | ||
| Robi |
Just talked to HD, this time the same guy who gave me the explanation about the rotor assembly. Long story short. From my explanation he said it sounds like the shifter pawl needs adjusted. Such adjustment would not be included in what I already paid. I asked him, if he was sure, from our discussion, that it wasn't a clutch adjustment issue. He said he was pretty positive, but he's never had to do a shifter pawl adjustment on a Blast. However, he said he's not one to double dip. He said bring it in, and he'll ride it around, and if it's something that they overlooked with the clutch adjustment, they'll fix it. If it's determined that something else is needed, then that's customer pay. I did mention this wasn't shifting like this before, but I guess that's a whole "my word" against "your word" situation. He said the tech who worked on it will be in Saturday, and I can wait. I don't need to drop it off. I'm going to ride up there with a school book, and get some reading done. I already told him, that if they say I gotta pay, I'll have to see them another day (didn't intend for it to rhyme). He said, well just bring it up, let me ride it around, then we'll go from there. I guess I'm in the same boat I was in originally, in that I'm trying to avoid having to get greasy, but at least I know I will have a nice ride Saturday morning (forecast now says sunny and the trip is nice) and I won't have to pay anything. | ||
| Ezblast |
lol - What did I say? - lol EZ | ||
| Reuel |
Each time I read Ed's description about the shift fix, I'm that much closer to ripping my Blast apart AGAIN! I have some time off right now, so I just might do it! The "I'd rather go for a ride" syndrome is the only thing stopping me right now ... | ||
| Swampy |
Robi, If you are anyplace close to Lansing, MI bring it to me. I have an extra primary gasket, and I will make all the needed adjustments, you can take all the pictures and post them here for anybody else that needs to do it. It will take all of 4 hours max working slow and explaining everything as needed. The only problem is that the next two weekends are out as the Big Kid is gettin' hitched on the 27th | ||
| Rainman |
Hey Swampy, why don't you move to Virginia? Bring EZ with you. It'd be good having folks like you guys nearby and I've got some killer mountain roads to trade. | ||
| Swampy |
Sounds like a good idea! You have a longer riding season also. I picked up a Jeep in Maryland back in December 2002 and I thought it was a great place to be. | ||
| Robi |
That's a nice offer and I really do appreciate it, including all the help already given from everyone on here. I was riding this morning and wondering, "what if I lived in a time before the Internet? What the hell would I do?" I wondered about all the people who have to try to figure it out without any help, and unfortunately (as I crossed the intersection), I wondered how many people came upon unfortunate luck because their guesses were wrong. I'm in Columbus, OH. I like riding, but I don't know if I've built up that kind of stamina yet. I will bounce this idea around for a little while though. My sister/bro-in-law used to live in MI and still have friends there. I might have a friend who has a friend up in MI. However, I think they were closer to Detroit. I think what would really be cool is video how-to postings. I have a camera and basic editing software, I thought about taping anytime I do something "again" but of course only if I did it right the first time. What about live video streaming? Do you have a web cam? I can take my laptop outside to the garage. Maybe have a group demo where others can log in. Of course, you'd want to have plenty of ads streaming across the bottom to offset the cost (actually I don't know anything about web commerce/marketing/advertising). Prior to the scheduled demo, who ever plans on attending can order/purchase the necessary parts/supplies from sponsors. There can be a list of tools and what not that would be needed for the upcoming project, and the users can just point and click. Get the stuff delivered in 5 business days (if they're not broke like me), have some prep directions, and once the stream goes live, we can all fix our broken bikes at the same time, under the direction of the gurus. I don't know if that's possible, but I think that would be pretty cool. There is the whole point of not wanting to work for free, so I guess you could charge an admission fee for each session, or subscription fee for streaming archived sessions. Of course, I would ask for a complimentary pass because I'm broke, and right now I'm hoping this is my idea. All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopy, recording, or any information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writing from the publisher. (Just kidding) | ||
| Robi |
Went to HD, the guy looked at the play in the cable and immediately said, "yeah, this is not adjusted properly." He adjusted it, rode it, and said it's good. After buying and replacing the timing cover, I got on it, and shifted into first, and heard the ugly shift. Had a nice ride for the day though, about 90 miles (includes stopping at family and getting my digital converter - "Are you ready?"). When I got home, my neighbor rode it around the street, shifting up and down trying to duplicate what I'm complaining about. I thought I heard it, he said he wasn't able to duplicate what I was trying to explain. So I'm guessing I'm a little sensitive to how this bike shifts, as it is my first bike and they are known to be clunky. It's difficult to accurately explain what I'm hearing on here, so maybe I've been making too bike a deal out of it. What I will do, is prepare myself to do the work EZ suggests, over Xmas break. Swampy, my neighbor told me today, that Lansing was a realistic ride, at least once I relax more on the bike and don't wear myself out as quickly. I'll keep your offer on filed away. If I can get someone to ride with me, then I will let you know and take you up on your offer at your convenience. Thanks everyone. | ||
| Reuel |
Every time I stop at the gate at the Air Force base, I have to go into neutral to get my ID out. When I put it back in 1st, I always get that CLACK! | ||
| Robi |
After a couple of stops (parking etc), I began starting the bike in 1st. I think I'm going to do that from now on (so long as it practical). | ||
| Reuel |
If you leave it in 1st when it's parked, it's more likely to stand still on a hill on a windy day. | ||
| Ezblast |
As long as no grinding is involved - its probably good. EZ | ||
| Robi |
I do park it in first, unless it's in my garage. | ||
| Robi |
So I've been starting in first. I have to say, my rides start with less stress with this method because I'm not hearing an ugly sound right at the get-go. I have noticed, however, that on cold starts, the bike lurches a little. It's not a lunge or a jerk, but I'd call it a lurch (I really don't know how these words differ). When at red lights, stopped, in first and clutch handle pulled in, there is no motion. When in friction zone or clutch handle pulled in, I can rev with no acceleration. Or on hot starts in first, it doesn't do this. I thought I read somewhere that this is normal because of the viscosity of the gear oil when it's cold making the plats stick. I think it was one of Ruell's explanation. Additionally, when the bike is off, and at any temperature, when I pull in the clutch handle, the bike does not roll as freely as it does when it's in neutral. Since I've had the clutch concerns expressed above, I'll ask: Should I be concerned about either of these two conditions? PS and BTW - my neighbor putted my bike around this weekend, going from 1st to 2nd, 1st to 2nd . . . back and forth, stop and go, trying to see what I was explaining. While I thought I heard the symptom, he said he didn't notice anything of concern. Our conclusion was, that, being this is my first bike and being it's a Blast, I am overly sensitive to the shifting noise. So while I type descriptives online about what I am hearing, it just might not be "really" as bad as I think it is. | ||
| Reuel |
Those are normal situations. I've always had them. I'm thinking of trying lighter weight oil in my transmission to see if it makes any difference. If you're overly sensitive to shifting, what about that incessant vibration?  | ||
| Robi |
Makes the walnut in the cranium bounce around. Feels good to know it's at least still in there. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Normal. And normal for most older HD/Buells (to try and get rid of it is for the obsessive). I was going to mention it when you'd said you were leaving it in first, but I figured you'd find out sooner or later. Now that winter is coming, I'd only start it in neutral. Starting it in first when cold will drain the battery too quickly. | ||
| Reuel |
Why do I STILL not have any problems with my battery? What am I doing wrong? | ||
| Robi |
Thank you for the peace of mind. |
