| Author | Message | ||
     Styxnpicks |
I'm with you on the needle shims... with the 180 I had downshifted so my rpms were realy high in second and I was able to get that top end wot, but I guess theres this big hole where it leans out to the point where it chokes. it idles perfect, runs real good from idle to halfway up the rpm band at wot and eveything in between, Ill take a look at the pilot jet when I get off work, I think its a 46 but it could be a 48. it idles good tho about 2 1/2 to 3 turns out | ||
| Ezblast |
Right now that bog is caused by being too rich - the needle and main and primary all hitting at the same place - basically drowning at one spot - the shimming will help. GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Styxnpicks |
I thought we were dealing with a lean problem? | ||
| Ezblast |
Depends - have you checked what primary your running? If 48 then your af is max at 13 to 12 with the 180 main - rich and if the needle hits too high with 2 shims - it hits just as the main hits - causing a bog, if 46 your probably too lean on the primary causing a similar problem between the start until the needle hits. type of thing - between 2500 to 3500 so around 3000 bog and if you let off throttle it digs back in - stock needle range with out shimming - bringing it up just a tad with the 48 primary - one shim instead of two would still put the needle before the main and not hitting the beginning - the bog causing condition on a rich side - it works through the bog and then feels like turbo boost to the top due to the main working by itself - perhaps a smaller flowing needle? GT - JBOTDS! EZ (Message edited by ezblast on November 17, 2007) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Jar-Jar LMAO! Awesome name for a Blast. I threw my stack on-bike runs like crap! Your gonna need a bigger main jet! I wouldnt bother with the needle shims or slow jet until you get the main jet sorted out. Obviously WOT is way lean. I was able to get full rpms (7500), unless I went WOT. EZ, did you have this much trouble with your stack? PS I was running a 180 with 4 shims, though my engine is not stock. (Message edited by gearheaderiko on November 18, 2007) | ||
| Ezblast |
Yes - on the red - it was a fitment issue mostly, then the proper jetting, and finally the shimming experiments - to dial it in - then putting on the Force and going down one shim - I had just got the bike pretty well dialed in when the kid wrecked it - hubris - to get a daily driver to do almost as well as your pride and joy hot rod - though now with the LSR header there is a gap - damn the black winds up quick now - still the top end rushes where not that far apart in the end and I was really starting to feel good about the red bike - ahhh well - Maul is dead - Long live Vader and lets hail the coming of Insidious! - LOL GT - JBOTDS! EZ (Message edited by ezblast on November 18, 2007) | ||
| Styxnpicks |
sould I try the 190 or should I shim and start working up from 175. I really wish I had a a/f gauge at this point to tell if I'm running pig rich or real lean when it his that rpms where the main jet takes over. I find it hard to believe that I'm running too lean with a 185 main | ||
| Ezblast |
Start with shim and 175 | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Start with the main jet and work back. Its obviously running lean when at WOT it sputters/dies and you back off and it runs again (acts like it ran out of fuel). The 175 is too lean.I dont think your having a problem at low rpms so spending your time there is a waste. Try the 190. Slow jet=idle-1/4 throttle needle=midrange main jet controls WOT and the needle. Change the main and you'll also change the midrange (via the needle which may then need additional adjustment). Or go back to running an air filter with standard jetting. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Well then, take your choice! Mine acted very lean (last night), but EZ is running 2 stacks! I did pull off the PS air filter when on the dyno last week and the a/f mixture went (for example) from a 12.5:1 to a 13.5:1 (leaned out). (Message edited by gearheaderiko on November 18, 2007) | ||
| Styxnpicks |
it doesn't sputter and die like I'm running out of fuel, it just sits there like I'm hitting a rev limiter, idle and crusing is perfectly fine, fires right up, idles, gets around in traffic but when you want to run WOT it just hits a wall around 3000rpm where the main is trying to take over. I wanna think its too rich running a 185 but its not blowing black smoke or smelling like its rich or flooding out. when I had the pro series I as running a 175 and it ran fine with and without the filter, I havnt tried the stack without a filter yet (Message edited by styxnpicks on November 18, 2007) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
3000rpm is needle. Mine ran okay without the PS filter (elbow still attached) but ran leaner. The stack is different. Its design is to accelerate airflow into the carb (in theory) so it should run leaner still. Your running description sounds exactly what mine did last night. The more you shim the needle up the earlier you get full main jet. So it might make it run better, later, but still NG at WOT/higher rpms until you change the main jet. | ||
| Styxnpicks |
we'll I'm glad I'm not crazy, looks like I get to play with the shims, Ill start with two and see where that gets me, I really wish there was a cheap way to wath the a/f ratio | ||
| Ezblast |
Swampy: BUILD ONE !!! From J.C.Whitney (800)529-4486: AIR/FUEL RATIO GUAGE PN HA815401 ... EXHAUST OYXYGEN SENSOR PN HA815403 ... From K&N (800)858-3333: O2 SENSOR BUSHING and PLUG PN 85-2440 QUESTIONS: Ljenne73c@verizon.net Even though GUAGES(sensors) are the almost foolproof way of adjusting, "i" still do relie on the SEAT of MY PANTS(sound & feel) !!! Remember this: ALL SAME ENGINES ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL !!! There will always be one that will have the FASTEST TOP END ... One will that have the FASTEST ACCELERATION ... One that will make the MOST TORQUE ... One that will make the MOST "HP" ... One that will GET the BEST GAS MILEAGE ... Buellistic posted this - maybe it would help - you could slip the sensor up the pipe and work it in neutral to get an AF idea. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Styxnpicks |
2 shims and 46/180 is better but still does it, not as bad, fells les like a rev limit and more like running out of gas now, trottle response is much better down low | ||
| Ezblast |
Try bringing your air screw in till it pops pop-corn when you decel then let out till it stops - perhaps - that would help? - though by now you've totally sealed the intake - no leaks there - so one would assume rich - what does the plug look like? - that would tell you how rich you generally are - you should be ok at 180 - 185 would be a max - you don't have a fuel overlap to feed that a twin or more demands from a carb - that would be at 190 and up from what I studied though stockers have started at 180 - which gives us an idea of how rich we are since the first thing they do is go to a 48 primary and a 200 main- lol GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Styxnpicks |
guys its the outerwears filter, I tried it today with the 180, 190 and 175 and it did it with all three, took the filter off with the 175 in and BAM it worked, still a little weak up high with the 175 but it gets there now edit, 180 feels even better, pulls good up to redline (Message edited by styxnpicks on November 20, 2007) | ||
| Ezblast |
Was it loose? I detected no loss with it - how is it causing it? That is so wierd - because I have no problems on the Black bike and had all the problems on the red dialed out - what about the filter do you think is causing it - is it tight against the stack? GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Styxnpicks |
i dunno man, i had it on the stack and it ran like crap, pulled over took it off and it ran fine | ||
| Ezblast |
I'll check it out - there is supposed to be no difference between it on or off. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Ezblast |
What they say: Outerwears Pre-filters are designed to enhance the efficiency of any performance or exposed air filter. The Pre-filter is constructed with a proprietary polyester mesh with uniform micron openings, treated with an optional hydrophobic water-repellent process. The mesh is UV resistant, filters debris down to .005”, is shatter proof in freezing temperatures, and resistant to heat up to 450 degrees. The material is puncture resistant and has elasticity characteristics allowing the threads to return to the original position in the event the threads have been impacted or shifted. The manufacturing process incorporates a welded seam for strength, or reinforced industrial grade thread to fill needle holes and to reduce potential failure points in the material. The top seam utilizes specialized thread and cording (ON LARGER PIECES W/TOPS) to reinforce durability of the top. Six stock colors are available in either regular or the water-repellent variety. Special colors are available with appropriate volume. Pre-filters are designed to deflect the damaging debris, which clogs air filters, compromising peak air-flow and horsepower. The Pre-filter also extends the time between servicing intervals reducing costs and increasing convenience for the consumer. | ||
| Styxnpicks |
I found a HUGE diff between on and off, on a side note, the bikes running stonger than ever now | ||
| Ezblast |
Jay Garside to me show details 2:59 PM (30 minutes ago) Reply Edward, I appreciate you contacting Outerwears. We are dedicated to meeting customer needs and providing a quality Pre-Filter that functions. In regards to you inquiry, the air flow of a Pre-Filter is determined by the material openings and surface area. It is rare, however, there are applications where a small pre-filter with limited surface area can affect air flow to the engine. A typical application of this type is large displacement engines and velocity stacks. Outerwears has different material that can accomodate the limited surface area. This is not a common situation, so the alternate material is not utilized in everyday applications. Outerwears would be happy to look at the applications and evaluate how best to solve the issue. Custom applications generally have an additional cost, however, if the product solves a problem that is commonly experienced in the market place, there are occasions, when the custom charges are waived. Thanks for your call, we would be happy to work with you. info@outerwears.com Outerwears, Inc. 269-679-3301 On the phone he said they would probably sell the custom application for the same price or just a buck more - he said that being machine made - the weave in that batch could have been a tad tighter - happens machines are not perfect - I did not have this problem, but I bought like 15 of them when I first thought of the idea - so I figure things change in 5 years - the new part number is - 20-1267@6.95 a pre-filter - so a custom job would probably only be a buck or two more at most - give them a call. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Swampy |
Was it me or was the Badweb down? | ||
| Ezblast |
Its been on and off - server adapting - lol | ||
| Ezblast |
This brings me to question - if I got the custom cloth that would flow more air - I would flow more air - a bit leaner and more power - hmm on the Black bike - if I detect leaness - I just turn up the Dial A Jet a notch - easy to do since it is set at minimum right now with the difference between Erik and my jetting being 155 to his 160 main - all other things being simular - I figure the DAJ at minimum ups it that extra to need that much less - and it will add a bit more upon detection of a lean condition - its real job as far as I'm concerned - lol - now I suspect the new filters I got when I got filters for the Red - hmm - next day or two I'll check it out, however, going for the test ride friday so probably not till after then - if it does - then I'll probably see about the custom application filter - lol - at that price - its a no loss situation and gaining more air. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Styxnpicks |
I might just have to stick a cone filter on the stack, I'm thinking it might have something to so with the small filter area, I couldn't beleive it tho, all this time it was the filter | ||
| Ezblast |
Yeah - but its working fine on my Black - at least this one is, and the red I tuned out - note I had a 48 primary, though perhaps that was age? The joy of experimenting - don't go with a cone just yet - I'll call them tomorrow and ask what the options are - if worth it - I'll order 5 probably - let you know - GT - JBOTDS! EZ (Message edited by ezblast on November 21, 2007) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Very Interesting! I think I'm even less inclined to run a stack, non-filtered, in dusty SoCal. It will make for some interesting dyno runs though. If Outerwears comes up with a stack filter that works, I might try that. Outerwears quoted me maybe double the price (or more) for custom. ?!?! PS Running a 155 on the XB top end (160 was probably when they ran out of leaner jets). 10.5:1 Blast is 180. (Either may change pending further dyno time). | ||
| Styxnpicks |
I didn't get much ride time, but the bike feels like a new beast, makes me wonder if I should keep it or not |
