| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
and not really cost the factory much of anything in new tooling What's your tooling estimate? | ||
| Ezblast |
1) Boot - 150,000.00 - design in existence - prep for tri-compound - with fibre/wire re-enforcement probably another 50,000.00 2) Retooling front head mount for XB - probably - 100,000.00. 3) Creating rear mount for head - tooling & production - aprox - 150,000.00 4) Re-working rear shock tab for larger tire - 0.0 5) Reflashing existing ignitions with new ignition data and further production - around - $50,000.00 6) tooling to make peg hangers about an inch and half higher from the stamped steel so that one can change the primary oil without taking it off - aprox. $100,000.00 7) XB style lights could be inexpensively done using the Dominator style lights (180 retail - WS should be much less)- they plug into existing wiring - XB fly-screen using the current Blast brackets - cost would probably be same as current lighting. 8) Redoing exhaust header and can tooling - working with current design style - enlarging header and reworking interior of exhaust can 150,000.00 These are high numbers that I'm sure could be bid for less, but you wanted realistic costs - I worked as a machinist and mfg. for about 5 years - did contractual bids for jobs and won - c&c wiped out the trade in the late 80's - got into retail - lol - bot I still recall a bit of the trade. 3/4 mil is a very cheap cost production set up for a new model - you could reshape the tail end for $250,000.00 - use the rear XB lighting and make it a cool million then pad it for a million to cover misc. expenses, and still come off inexpensively done for a new model - the rest of the parts, etc. are already in existence - and with the XB 9 head/piston you would actually be jetting at least as lean, probably leaner than the current Blast Stock - setting you up well with CARB. EZ | ||
| Ezblast |
One more thing - I'll bet the guys at Buell have the connections to do it at a quarter that cost. They seem pretty sharp to me. EZ PS Email me if you want a breakdown/analysis. (Message edited by ezblast on February 16, 2008) | ||
| Luckyduck |
Ed, Don't forget we want the transmission gears that everyone else has had for years. Paul | ||
| Ezblast |
I didn't - it should be taken for granted as a bolt-in replacement. The reason we have the old style for so long is to support the Tubers needs - lol EZ | ||
| Wsplrll |
Just to throw another opinion in the ring. A friend and fellow Blast enthusiast authority had given some thoughts on the Blast. Not saying I agree or disagree but just to play the devil's advocate for the sake of the discussion. "It's time again for me to state the Truth, like it or not. And those who may refute this- have NO Facts to back them up. On other Buell websites, certain individuals continue to bolster the myth that the Blast is a "Bulletproof" motorcycle or the most "Reliable" of all H-D/Buell bikes, but this is simply not true, and there are NO facts to back up such assertions, but there ARE quite a few facts to the contrary. Lets run down a common list of repeated failures that plague the Blast(in no particular order). 1) Intake boot/Manifiold coupler failures. (cracks/tears) 2) Exhaust system failures.(cracks in various locations) 3) Front motor mount failures.(some catastrophic) 4) Wheel bearing failures.(reputedly confined to early years) 5) Oil pump drive gear failures. (can be catastophic to motor) 6) High oil consumption- leading to early top end rebuilds because of excess carbon/oil fouling. 7) Ignition module failures(reputedly confined to early years) 8) Ultra Fast rear tire wear(especially now with OEM Pirelli) 9) Shifting failures, caused by cheap 50ยข detent retaining clips. 10) Should leaking rocker box gaskets be included? Because even the 2nd Gen upgrade "All Metal" rocker box gaskets are known to start leaking at higher mileages, thats why Harley has gone to the 3rd Gen rubber coated metal- "Cosmetic type" gaskets, for all oil sealing gaskets. Soooooo....there is the common list of things that sooner or later -every Buell Blast will succumb to. It's true, if you keep your Blast long enough, everyone of the failures WILL occur ! Granted, alot of those won't rear their ugly heads until probably after 20,000 miles, but no Blast is immune. Although another fact is, more than half of those failures cannot occur on a Harley or Bigger V-Twin Buell because they aren't designed the same, and/or they have upgraded parts in the critical areas (oil pump drive gear as an example). There is one common denominator for some of those failures, and that is- their occurence is related to excess engine vibrations,although somewhat isolated from the rider- the Blast motor is the most severe vibrating engine that Harley builds, and sooner or later, parts failures occur because of these severe vibrations. And then there are the almost silent failures, that occur as you pile on the higher mileages, and the oil pump drive gear is the one that specifically comes to mind.There IS an upgrade part for this gear- which is OEM now on all Harleys and Buells- Except for the Blast! But it's omission in the Blast is another one of Buell's cost cutting features, as Buell Moco considers the Blast a Throw-away bike, and hopes you'll upgrade to a Bigger Buell(or Harley?) before your warranty runs out, so the next owner of the Blast will have to pay for repairs to the bike himself. So how does all of this add up to the Blast being "Bulletproof"? You can buy a brand new Ninja 250 or Honda Nighthawk 250 or Yamaha Virago 250 and only have the first break-in service done, and then never take it back for another service for 30,000 miles and never have ANY of the failures listed above. So if the Blast is considered "Bulletproof" what does it make them- "Immortal" !? > One last thing, and you've read on many other "Enthusiast" sites as well. And that is, Buell/H-D dealers HATE the Blast, they hate selling them, and they hate working on them, and don't forget- you'll pay those High Harley hourly service rates if you depend on the Buell Dealer to do all your maintenance and repairs....which is what alot of Newbies have no choice but to do. but come on- how many of you really want to become that dedicated ??? | ||
| Wsplrll |
Again - I am not trying to anger or refute others opinions - just throwing out an opinion of another person. Peace! | ||
| Ezblast |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/201 64/20164.html?1203983287 http://www.buelletinboard.com/forums/showthread.ph p?t=4618 Old news - already refuted by myself and others - you should actually read the Blast forum more - you'd have seen it posted and refuted as soon as it was posted - you think I would allow such a thing to stand un-refuted - I may not be able to speak out in the group anymore, but that doesn't mean I don't participate - lol EZ | ||
| Wsplrll |
I stand refuted!!! Although I didn't know about the Buellintin Board. Thanks! | ||
| Wsplrll |
But what things have actually been changed since 2001 on the Blast - other than the paper gasket? | ||
| Ezblast |
Rocker-cover gaskets have gone through 3 generations. Wheel bearings have continuously evolved - as bearings get better they get better. In 2003 they went to XB main bearings. Seats - 2005 & up are firmer and a different material - longer trips are possible, but Corbin still comfier. Colors - lol. Various bolts switched over to outer and inner hex-head style. Jetting - fluctuates - lol. Tires, upgraded shaft seals, etc... Not much really - which is why the call for an update - if it wasn't for Das Boot - and some parts irregularity - head bolts, ignitions, exhausts, wheel bearings - and such - a small number - no one would have anything to gripe about beside the usual power issues, tire selection/sizes, and basic suspension issues - lol. I just think if the KLR and Ninja can get face lifts, then so could the Blast - without a lot of cost involved as well, and perhaps a special edition or two cut out for the single enthusiasts that appreciate what Buell brings to a bike and the Blast's potential. EZ | ||
| Rainman |
I don't know...I've got an old Riders Edge Blast and drive it in stop and go city driving every day with some 60-mile mountain highway bursts and no problems with anything. Of course, I only have 6,000 miles but I'm still riding the original tires. | ||
| Ezblast |
2003 and up are bullet proof - lol - always said so. EZ | ||
| Wsplrll |
I still disagree that the HD dealers are "turning around". That is not the case in my experiance and I didn't see any metrics that refute that claim. BTW - the poll you mentioned is up to 57 people responding!!! Well ...56 if we don't count you EZ lol! | ||
| Ezblast |
Email newblaster - my friend Scott - he oked me voting for him - he doesn't interact with Ralph anymore - a lot of folks refuse to - Actually - on the dealer part - I have found that especially this last year that they are resigning themselves to the fact that Buells are here to stay and that they might as well profit from it - DP is a great example of this - lol - On the poll - 57 folks vs how many Blasts in owners hands - lol - pardon me if I don't take his work as a serious demographic study. Our thumper board is the largest in the world concerning Blasts - check there if you want to know whats really up, and yes - I post on all the Buell boards that talk about Blasts. EZ | ||
| Wsplrll |
That is fine....just thought it was funny. The back and forth between you and Ralph can be entertaining. I am not taking sides. I would say though that given that the poll ( as unscientific as it might be) was only posted a day or two when 17 people responded. Not everyone is on these sites daily. Just making a point. But in the spirit of goodhearted debate. I am just challenging your assertion on the dealers. It would seem that you don't have much more than a seat of the pants feeling that dealers are somehow changing. Being "resigned" to working on them since they can charge money is hardly a ringing endorsement for a dealer network. Unless you are hiding some metrics in your back pocket? One example is not a serious statistic either - to be fair and apply the same standards. your ball. | ||
| Rainman |
My dealer seems to be competent at repairing Buells although the sales folks don't understand them and tend to move customers to Sporties and other H-Ds. I say the "seem to be competent" because I have a Blast. It never needs fixing or ironing. | ||
| Ezblast |
Actually its because I am seeing less and less dealer complaints on the Boards - since I do follow them all - it used to be there would be at least one new one a week, now days I'm lucky to read 1 a month. I'm sure there are still clueless dealers out there, however, a good number are trying to shape up and take care of the customer. As the economy gets tight, the customer dollar becomes more important, and that is only given in repeated quantities when the customer service is good, and you have to admit the Blast is easy money to work on - this all adds up to a change for the better from the dealers who want to stay in business, and probably a good bet that the others will probably in time fail. So the old timers who want to succeed are - though reluctantly - embracing Buell and getting behind the idea of Buell customer service. Its not a giant gestalt, however, it is a sign of the times and bound to happen - sooner or latter. Hell - read my old posts and you would know I'm the last person that would sing praises of the dealerships, however, by that same token, I have noticed across the Boards that they have been improving. A forlorn hope is slowly becoming a reality - things change - a part of life - nespa? EZ | ||
| Luckyduck |
Wsplrll, So, what is your point with this? Is it just Blast bashing, or is there a constructive path forward that I am missing? Perhaps you could write a supplemental to the service manual so people could have a better ability to fix their own and avoid the whole dealer "problem". Perhaps you could set up an appointment and visit the factory to talk with them about the Blast. Heck, you could build one up to your idea of what it should be and send it to Buell with a note that this is what you wish they would build. Those might actually get some action. Ripping on the product and singing the praises of other mfg's is often not as productive as you might hope. Paul ps. The service guys at my dealership own 3 Blasts between them and shamed me into doing my own repairs because they felt bad taking my money for something so simple. | ||
| Ezblast |
Paul - they sound like good people! EZ | ||
| Wsplrll |
Paul - Not bashing. I was actually responding to a discussion about the subject. I don't want to assume that anyone who dares to question or criticize is going to be labeled a Buell/Blast basher. If your experience is that are satisfied with the dealer you have access to that is great. It seems a typical response is that I should be doing something to help the Motor Company ( More so than Buell) to improve their service to the customer? That makes no sense to me. I do take the time to provide any feedback in surveys and have contacted Buell for things when needed or when asked. I have also sung the praises on this board when they have done something for me. I have plunked down over 10 grand payable to HD/Buell so I think that entitles me to have some say both good and bad if need be? Am I not ( daring) to promote other brands other than to maybe use the example of the leaders in the industry. Something to aspire to as most successful companies do. I will say again - that this has been in the spirit of a healthy debate. I hope that does not make you feel threatened or insecure if you love the bike you have. I don't subscribe the love it or leave it mentality. EZ - I will defer to the amount of time that you spend on the subject of the Blast. I respect that you are a dedicated owner and enthusiast. In that sense your opinions carry a significant weight. Some of my statements were to gain perspective and information via a healthy discourse or discussion. That was my point. Not to Blastbash for the sake of it. And EZ - thank you again for the responses you have given me in the past and hopefully the future! | ||
| Ezblast |
Will - I understand - you could teach Ralph a lot on how to diplomatically hold a debate - lol EZ | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Why dont they shop the frame components? I know there is a street tracker Single thumber that keeps bringing me back here. That is the bike I want, something that is reliable, that I can swap out tires on, lighter then the CityX and a bit more capable at the dirty bendy hoopdees than the XB. We have the technology...http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/201 64/322748.html?1196783229 (the pics never load from home, its the blue and yellow one that leaves me jones-in) Still mad that we didnt get the SM/DS Dirty Buell Muell | ||
| Ezblast |
 Definitely a 'Special Edition' I could get behind! Yeah - thats always been my favorite Blast Flat-tracker. A great looking street bike! EZ | ||
| Dalton_gang |
EZ, That is the sweetest looking Blast I have ever seen. Is some one building these or is that a one time custom? | ||
| Ezblast |
It's the C&J/Redfeather dirt-track frame, Bodywork from the Gopher Shack, and the rest is either custom (rearsets,etc.) or universal parts (Handlebars,etc.). Yes it was very well made. Total price - the price of a Blast minus the engine - fun factor price? - priceless! EZ | ||
| Rex |
Looks fun to me. gotta make one of these one day. REX | ||
| Dalton_gang |
It impresses me as being the perfect street bike for my kid. He will be 16 this summer and has 8 years of AMA amateur level flat tracking experience. I think he wants a KTM smc though. | ||
| Strato9r |
EZ, that damn blue and yellow bike you posted a picture of has kept me up late more nights than I care to count! I've gone out and bought a couple of engine cores (actually a cherry set of '04 cases and a nearly complete, except for head and cylinder '05 motor). For several years, I've been accumulating the nessesary bits and pieces to build a Yamaha 650 powered street tracker. Problem is, I have a real jones for XR-750s, and, singles. So rather than chuck any more cash at pricey, and oddball parts for an engine I'll never really be that happy with, I thought I may as well just build the bike I want around the Blast engine. Yeah, I've got to fabricate stuff; so what, I'm a machinist. As far as the Blast as a factory produced machine goes, though, I really like what it is, as it is. An easy motorcycle to ride. Dependable, to an incredible level, especially if you grew up in a time when motorcycles broke down, and if you rode one, you knew how to fix it. Performance? That's relative. Compared to nearly any other bike over 400cc, it's not fast. But when I was a kid, I remember a magazine ad for the Triumph Bonneville, clearly stating this machine was for "Expert Riders Only". I'll bet a Blast would smoke that Bonnie in the corners, and probably not give up much, if anything in a drag race. So, does that mean that the entry level riders that the Blast is targeted towards have somehow become better riders than the entry level riders of forty years ago? Of course not, but, at the time, the forty or so horsepower you could expect out of a stock Bonneville, Norton, or, for that matter, a Sportster, put those bikes at the top of the food chain. A stock Blast is what, maybe thirty five or so ponies? And a fair chunk lighter than the old bikes, so, yeah, it stacks up pretty well, especially when you factor in much better suspension, tires and brakes. Compared to a GSXR of any displacement, however, it is laughable, on the spec sheet anyway. And sadly, there are far too many novice riders, who bought into the spec sheet mentality, riding machines that have well over a HUNDRED HORSEPOWER MORE than the "superbikes" of not that long ago. I really think that the Blast should continue on it's merry, unpretentious way. It should continue to be refined, and things like fuel injection can't be far off if emissions are going to a motivating factor, which they certainly will be. Economy will certainly be another important consideration, especially with oil over a hundred bucks a barrel now. The Blast could find itself very well situated in the market if/when gasoline prices REALLY go insane, and North Americans start seeing motorcycles as the rest of the world has for decades; an AFFORDABLE means of transportation. Perhaps the photo of the old Honda step-through in the little black Buell book of a few years ago was a little prophetic. Cheap, dependable transportation. Unchanged for years. No one really wants to think about fifteen dollar a gallon gasoline, but how "cool" is defined will definitely change if folks are literally forced to use vehicles that they can afford to operate. But, if folks go out to buy a motorcycle so that they can afford to commute, they are going to buy one that is easy to ride. And dependable. And uses as little fuel as possible. And, if it handles well and is fun, they'll fall in love with it. Isn't that exactly what the Blast was designed to do in the first place? | ||
| Kmbuell |
Does anyone have a picture of the right side of the Blue/Yellow Blast above? One great looking, fun machine! |
