| Author | Message | ||
     Ullygan |
Hi all, I have had fuel dripping and serious vapours coming from the same tube on the left side at the rear. It worried me so I put the bike outside and checked it every 10 mins it leaked for 90 mins. I have since found this thread from a search and know that it needs to be dealt with by the dealer. Bike is 1yr old and has 3500 on it. I was intending to ride it up to my dealer 95 miles away to get them to diagnose the other issues, speedo fault, exhaust actuator fault and needs a new clutch cable holder,for warranty. Then ride home have them send me the parts and I send the old ones back. Now though my question is can I,should I still ride it? Or would the dealer pick it up? I am new to the motorcycle world, this is my first bike... All advice is appreciated | ||
| Wheelybueller |
Was the bikes fuel tank filled recently,Was it coming out of the overflow | ||
| Ullygan |
Yes it was filled (not over filled though) and then I rode for 60+ miles pulled up at home and noticed a gurgling and hissing sound. Very loud bubbling sound at the rear and half way up the frame on the left side it was bubbling inside too! I have read a thread a few mins ago talking about the same issue but it was archived and couldn't post so here I am..:-) | ||
| Kellaupat |
I've noticed my 09 doing the same thing. I also have 3500 miles on it. Mine is not dripping gas, but is gurgling and stinking the garage up big time. Don't smoke around my bike! I was going to my dealer this weekend anyhow, so I am going to have them take a listen. I'll let you know what they say. Pat | ||
| Paul56 |
Good luck with the parts replacement strategy. They aren't likely to ship you parts for you to install under warranty. Way too much liability for them. See if they'll make you a deal on a rental while yours is being repaired. | ||
| Mad_doctor |
Is it possible the tank is building pressure by the temperature change? the fuel is being stored in an in-ground tank, and we all know the frame gets warm,(from the rear cyl.),maybe if you would relieve the pressure, (by taking the gas cap off), then see if it continues to gurgle. just my .02 | ||
| F_skinner |
Mad Doctor is right. What is happening is this. Once you shut of the motor the heat is causing pressure to build in the gas tank (easier to do with less gas in the tank). This is why it may take a while for it to leak. If you take the gas cap off (you need to leave it off for about 30 minutes) it will not leak. Next time you have time, when you get done riding, take your air cover off and remove the hose from the pressure valve and you will see it bubbling out. So what causes this? I suspect the pressure valve itself may have something to do with it, the motor running lean, fan not properly cooling the rear cylinder and or a combination of all these things. I am very interested in what your dealer says. Can they retune the motor for an 08 or 09 to make it not run as lean? I think the only thing they can do is replace the pressure valve. They will most likely need to order one. My theory is the pressure valve is sticking a bit. Not much but just enough to cause the pressure to build up. The bike will not leak when you are riding it. Air is flowing and the gas pump is equalizing the pressure. It will only leak after the motor is shut down. The amount of fuel that comes out varies with the air flow of the place you park the bike. Mine has done this from day one. I think Buell may want to look into the parts used in the pressure valve and maybe have the supplier do more testing on it. If I ever get around to getting another valve I am going to modify it to correct this problem and will let everyone know. I am pretty busy getting my tubers ready for summer so it may take a while. Frank | ||
| Arcticktm |
There should be no bike damage danger with running the bike due to this problem. If your fuel tank vent was totally plugged, you would eventually build up a vacuum in the tank that would starve the bike for fuel, and it could stop running. In this case, you would open the gas cap and notice the pressure relief (would be a bit hard to open, like it was stuck). relieving the vacuum would then allow the bike to run again. Also make sure not to overfill your tank, though running 60 miles right after filling would seem to make this unlikely as the cause. Probably the vent valve, as mentioned above. | ||
| F_skinner |
In this case, you would open the gas cap and notice the pressure relief Not in this case. The pressure valve is allowing the pressure to escape (along with fuel) but at some point it stops. I have never noticed the cap difficult to come off, even slightly. You are right, this does not cause any kind of safety issue unless it is parked in the garage and you toss a cigarette into a pool of gas building under your bike. Some have speculated that the fuel is boiling. I do not think it is. It just looks like the valve is not venting when it should and allowing a buildup. If you have ever seen heat rising you can see the same thing coming out of the vent hose after a ride. At some point it shuts off and then the heat builds the pressure again. I have not messed with this problem in a while. I am hoping that it is as simple as the spring and plastic piece in the valve that opens and closes is just sticking a bit and a shot of a lubricant will take care of it. One of the purposes of that vent is to stop gas from leaving the gas tank in case of a tip over. If that is the case I am going to modify mine to be free flowing all the time. I hate that I have this problem on a brand new bike. As soon as the bike I want hits the market the Uly is history. | ||
| Keith_mahoney |
After seeing another poster on here do this, (sorry I can not remember who, but maybe Froggy) I ordered some heat shield from http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/16130.html and coated the whole inside of the right side of my frame with it. Now it barely even gets warm to the touch and I only have about 2500 miles on my bike. I also tediously cut out many small "just right" pieces of it and covered the bottom of my seat which keeps it very cool and unlike the heat blanket some buy it does not restrict the ventilation in anyway. | ||
| Froggy |
Wasn't me, I don't do heat barriers. | ||
| Bttrthnwrk |
Keith, I've been thinking about using that stick on heat barrier, too. How much did you have to buy from American Sport Bike to cover the right side frame and the set bottom? 1 roll? 2 rolls? | ||
| Keith_mahoney |
I only needed one roll. I think I have enough left to do another seat as well. I haven't checked it in a while. Treadmarks is the one I saw do it. Here you go http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/336680.html I did not remove every thing like he did. I just used cardboard to slide up in there and cut as a pattern and then cut the barrier in 3-4 pieces and carefully slid it up there and attached to the frame. First make sure you clean up the frame rails real good with with windex or something. You won't be able to fit your hand up in there to really stick the barrier on so you will have to get creative with some tools to do it. While I was at it I cut a small piece to stick on the rear push rod cover where the exhaust pipe comes right next to it. I figured a little less cooking there couldn't hurt. | ||
| Petebueller |
The inner tube on my fuel line split just where it connects to the fuel pump. It was leaking and looked like the overflow tube. The shed smelled like fuel but I could't track it down. On one of the club runs it was dripping after every fill and I was taking a dollar more than anyone else. Just thought I'd over filled it. Riding home the next day the fuel dissolved the outer cover of the fuel line and it slowly dumped the tank while I was riding. A friend had the same a while later. | ||
| Arcticktm |
"In this case, you would open the gas cap and notice the pressure relief" I was referring to the situation where the tank vent is totally plugged - no air in or out. This would lead to the tank pulling more and more vacuum, and removing the gas cap would temporarily fix the issue. Not saying it is his issue, but sometimes symptoms get misreported or interpreted. Pretty common on dirt bikes when guys get their gas cap vent hose kinked, and bike dies in the middle of the woods. } | ||
| F_skinner |
Right, but like you say the bike dies.... I do not think that is the case with the people that have reported the leaking issue. I have had a little experience with the pressure lock on my 97 S1. I thought for sure the vent hose was restricted but could not find it. When the vent hose removed the gas came out the pressure valve itself. I am going to try another fix this weekend. If that does not work I will have to wait until I have time to order another valve so I can butcher up my old one. | ||
| Mnrider |
It's cold up here most of the time so I kinda like that warm seat thing. Frank maybe that heat tape would keep your frame-tank cooler and keep the pressure down.Is that what you were going to try. | ||
| F_skinner |
No, I do not think I will try that. I am convinced the problem is either one of two things. 1) The valve itself (most likely, although I have tried two of them). 2) The lean condition (causing the heat and pressure build up). The tape will only treat the symptom and not the problem. Since I cannot do anything about the lean condition I will concentrate on the valve. I know the valve is working I just do not think it is working properly. I would like to get a valve that I know is working to try it but I have had no luck so far. I will order another new one and try it. | ||
| Cpilot |
I have done the heat shield to the right side of the frame, but still get fuel and fumes at times after shutdown. I do believe it is when the tank is low. Frank I hope you can find a solution!! | ||
| Dio |
The boiling fuel is a reality. To prove this to yourself, after fueling at normal engine operating temp, ride 3 or 4 miles and park. Wait about 5 or 10 minutes, and then remove the fuel cap and look inside. You will see the gas bubbling, and if it's quiet and you listen near the frame, you will be able to hear the bubbling sounds from the gas boiling. | ||
| F_skinner |
Dio, the sound you hear near the frame is not gas boiling. When the pressure pushes the gas out the valve it sounds like that (it is bubbling out). I tested this in my best redneck fashion by removing the air cover and the vent hose and waiting for the gas to come out. It did not burn me when I put my fingers in it. I have never dealt with boiling gas but figured it would be a lot hotter than it was. I will not rule it out boiling but I do not think it is the case. I thought of a way to test that but I got busy with other things today so I did not order the parts. | ||
| Dio |
Today's gas formulations aren't what they used to be. Boiling liquids occur at different temps depending on the liquid. For example, fill a plastic gas container at the gas pump in the summer on a hot day, and set it in the shade outside and watch it as it warms to the ambient temp. You will be able to see the gas bubbling (turning to vapor, i.e. boiling). It won't burn you, it's just turning to vapor. The same thing is happening on these bikes. The temp of the gas is reaching it's vapor point as the fuel warms at the same time the engine is cooling because of the heat transferring to the surrounding area, which on these bikes, happens to be the fuel tank/frame. | ||
| F_skinner |
Ok, you lost me at the gas in a plastic container example but what the hell, I will try anything once. I have not read the theory on boiling and different liquids but it seems to me that the altitude would make a difference. It takes a lot longer to boil water at our altitude (6,000 feet) so would the same old true with gas? I am not discounting what you said but it still think the valve is at fault. The reason I think that is this; would not every XB drip gas after a ride since the motor and frame/tank design is the same? | ||
| F_skinner |
For those of you that have gas leaking out the pressure valve after a ride; try lubricating the valve itself. I used teflon white grease and it helped a lot. The only thing that came out of the drain hose was left over grease. I only did one short ride but kept the bike over 4K rpm for about 20 miles. | ||
| Portero72 |
What Dio means is this-water boils(turns from a liquid to a vapor) at 212 deg F-clearly enough to burn human skin. Gasoline boils anywhere from 100-400 deg F, depending on formulation. So it is possible for it to change forms at a temperature cool enough not to burn you. I, too have witnessed the gas inside my tank boil. After a long ride, I filled up about a mile from home and sat in traffic for a bit on my way to the garage. After shutdown, I noticed some overflow. Upon opening the cap(to relieve pressure), I noticed THE BOIL. | ||
| F_skinner |
I have never noticed it but do not doubt that it is a possibility. Seems like more bikes would have the over flow fuel drip issue. Regardless, pressure is building forcing fuel out the vent hose via the valve. | ||
| Jomartijr |
I've been watching this with considerable interest since your first thread addressing the pressure/fuel leakage issue. I can understand the pressure buildup from heat but it's puzzling why the fuel is getting into the valve. And why more 12x owners are not seeing this problem, just some of us. Or maybe it's not noticed or a big deal to most. Anyway,you could try yet another valve hoping that fixes the problem but can you borrow a valve from an owner of the same year 12X which doesn't show this problem? That would answer a lot for those of us looking in how to solve this. It would confirm there are some valves work, others don't. Lastly, can one of your present valves be modified by bonding a splash shield ( thin aluminum and FlexWeld or FlexWeld II) to minimize fuel slosh entering the valve port? I'd try this on my bike but it's still on my to-do bike maintenance list. Bought it in January and haven't had the bike work time to get into the lowering-cleanup-fluids work I have planned. I have a hunch lots of us are watching your progress with fingers crossed. | ||
| F_skinner |
I was thinking about that last night. If the gas is boiling then the vapors would easily get into the valve and then to the vent hose. Funny thing last night is I did not hear any bubbling through the valve (I did not watch it the whole time) but I still got about three drips of fuel. Of course that could just be fuel that was already in the hose. I will order another valve (or two) soon so I can start playing with it. Is there anyway to adjust the fuel mixture on a 09 Uly to richen up the lean condition? | ||
| Darthane |
Is there anyway to adjust the fuel mixture on a 09 Uly to richen up the lean condition? ...or an '08. >.< Honestly, the inability to do anything at all to the fuel map sometimes makes me wish I'd bought an '07. Very irritating. My Uly leaks a significant amount after nearly every ride - it just leaks a lot more when the tank is relatively full compared to being nearly empty. I'm still convinced this is a contributor to my poor gas mileage as well. Once it's reliably nice outside I'm going to endeavor to measure just how much gas I'm losing out of that damned vent hose. |
