Author |
Message |
Bandm
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 11:05 am: |
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/06/29/france. shooting.demo.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories |
Spike
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 11:48 am: |
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What kind of military shooting demonstration involves shooting at children? |
Cudajohn
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 11:57 am: |
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It says it was a hostage freeing exercise. When would you fire at hostages? Also, blanks are built the same way in every bullet ever made into a blank, with a chrimped end. How you would mistake a real bullet, sharp pointy thing sticking out of the casing, for a chrimped end blank is beyond me so I call criminal act on this one. That or negligence of the worst kind that should result in punishment equal to a criminal act because it should be a serious offense to be that stupid. When did the French get guns anyway? If the child dies they should string him up! |
Not_purple_s2
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 11:59 am: |
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"the incident occurred during a demonstration of hostage-freeing techniques" If I'm ever taken hostage DO NOT send the French Military to rescue me. Sounds like they're more likely to hit the hostages than the bad guys. |
Frankfast
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 12:21 pm: |
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On the subject of frogs, I've been invaded with tree frogs. Two or three of them communicating with each other can keep you up all night. They are really irritating and you can't see them because they're in the trees. Anyone else incurred this problem? |
Xl1200r
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 12:34 pm: |
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Obviously, the fact that real bullets were instead of blanks raises more than one eye-brow... But my question would be: What kind of parent allows a child to be invloved in any denmostration involving firearms being pointed at them, blanks or no blanks?!?! |
Spike
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 01:18 pm: |
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Another question- I get that it's possible someone grabbed the wrong clip or whatever, but after the first shot drew blood, why were ~15 more shots fired? Was this a "spray and pray" demonstration? Are the demonstrators known to be really good actors? |
Djkaplan
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 01:21 pm: |
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Complacency can be a dangerous thing when it comes to firearms. Remember that badass DEA agent who shot himself in front of all those kids? |
Djkaplan
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 01:23 pm: |
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"When did the French get guns anyway?" Most of them have only been dropped once. |
Rfischer
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 01:51 pm: |
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An armed Frog is a dangerous Frog, but only if he's on your side... |
Bill0351
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 03:57 pm: |
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I wonder what their level of discipline and chain of command looks like. In the USMC or US Army that would be failure on the part of the NCOIC. I remember the almost paranoid level of inspection we would give guys before blank-fire exercises and after live-fire ones. We would break the weapons down and rod the barrels. We would have a layout inspection of all the magazines. We would frisk the guys down and turn out pockets. We would dump packs and 782 gear or LBVs. In spite of the usually great level of personal discipline, the section leader or squad leader would often find live ammo and thrash the piss out of whoever had it. The guy's team leader would be thrashed along with him. After the squad leaders were done with the inspection, the platoon sergeant would go through and do the same thing. I wonder who dropped the ball. In our military everybody from the CO on down would be answerable. Bill (Message edited by bill0351 on June 30, 2008) |
Bbbob
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 04:18 pm: |
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I didn't know the French were allowed live ammo. |
Nevrenuf
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 05:56 pm: |
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while on board the LaSalle back in 78, we actually had the french chase off an ethiopian gunboat that was in our blind spot. they were a great bunch to party with when we pulled into djibouti. still have a jersey and pants that i traded with one of the guys when we went over to their barracks to have dinner one time while in port. the enlisted people even had their own servants. they might have gotten soft over the years(some of the people) but not the military. that's just my experience with them. |
Froggy
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 09:38 pm: |
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Oh i saw the thread title and thought someone filmed me riding again... |
Spike
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 10:39 pm: |
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Another question- Is anyone else a little discouraged that the military put live rounds in 16 people and none of them are dead? I'm not suggesting that I want civilians to die, I'm just saying that when the military engages a target, I expect the target not to survive. |
Ft_bstrd
| Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 10:50 pm: |
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We assume the soldier under suspicion was one of the liberators. He may have been acting in the capacity of captor. His responsibility was to kill the hostages at the first sign of trouble. My concern would be that the liberators were not able to put down a captor before he was able to shoot 16 hostages. |
Bill0351
| Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 12:39 am: |
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"My concern would be that the liberators were not able to put down a captor before he was able to shoot 16 hostages." With what? The blanks they were probably all supposed to have with them don't have much stopping power. Simulating the killing of a bad guy is only effective if he is simulating too. The real bullets kind of throw off the usual equation. I wonder how long it took him to realize the people weren't faking. Bill |
Danger_dave
| Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:39 am: |
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>>I didn't know the French were allowed live ammo.<< They let off their damn nuclear bombs in our back yard for a LONG time. |
Cudajohn
| Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 07:55 am: |
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I know our M-16's, M-4's and AK's all need BFA's (Blank Firing Adapters). All gas operated weapons have to have one to fire a blank. Wonder what kind of weapons they use? Gas operated? |
Xl1200r
| Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 11:14 am: |
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Cuda - just trying to understand... Is a BFA just a device to instill some backpressure into the barrell/chamber that a bullet would normally do for a live round? I would imagine that something like this would either need to be fitted into the front of the chamber or the end of the barrell, and probably just consist of a blackage with a small hole to relieve the pressure once the action cycled. If this is the case (and again, I'm stabbing in the dark here), would this device not keep a live round from exiting the firearm? At a minimum, I'd think it would make a god awful noise the first time and should alert the user that something is wrong. |
Bill0351
| Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 12:36 pm: |
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That is exactly what a BFA does. The BFA for the M-16 and M-4 is bright red or yellow and screws onto the front of the flash suppressor. You might be able to shoot it off the front of the barrel without catastrophic weapon failure, but I would bet you would 100% know something was wrong. Bill |
Aesquire
| Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 05:35 pm: |
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The French military is very competent, until you get to colonel & above. It's long been held as gospel that if you HAVE to fight with the French on your side, the trick is to put all the Generals in one building, cut off all communication, supply lots of wine & caviar to the Generals, and don't let them out until the medals are given out at the end of the conflict. Picking a random Sgt. with Foreign Legion experience to run things & not letting the civilian government talk to him, would make them pretty equal to the Brit's, Aussies, Israeli's & American services. With French Generals in charge? Tonga could take them, nukes & all. IMHO The French Army uses a very nice bullpup design called the trombone for it's shape. I'm pretty sure it needs a BFA. If it's a hostile ( actor ) that did the shooting, it was probably an AK-47, which doesn't use one. Someone needs to get jail time for incompetence on this one. |
Nevrenuf
| Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 05:42 pm: |
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that's pretty bad when you say someone from tonga could beat them. my niece just came back from there and she couldn't believe how nice the people are there. |