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Archive through March 16, 2009Pso30 03-16-09  03:14 pm
         

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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Who lives in a pineapple under the sea, sponge Pso square pants.
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Longdog_cymru
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My original can rusted in less than 200 miles. The dealer replaced it with a brand new can that they had CamCoated, (ceramic coated), at 1000 miles.

Here is my ceramic coated can 7000 miles later........



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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 07:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Longdog,
Do you think they actually had that ceramic coated? Maybe they were pulling your leg.

If that truly was ceramic coated then what the heck!
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Froggy
Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 07:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Must of been an invisible coat then, looks like a normal pipe to me!
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Longdog_cymru
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 04:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was told it was ceramic coated by a company called Cam Coat (http://www.camcoat.u-net.com/), but this is certainly not what I expected!

It looked brilliant until this winter, just wash and wipe and then it started to blister with rust. I will be calling the main dealer today about it, (I also have a complaint about my front disc pitting), so I'll let you know the result.
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 10:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've decided to go the ultra cheap route in muffler restoration. I came to this decision for many reasons. I hate to spend money, Longdogs photo, most of the rust on my can rubs off with my finger, and I don't want my Uly to be out of commission for a week or two just when winter is ending.
http://www.vhtpaint.com/blackoxidecasepaint.html

Read this short article on painting muffs:
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Temps.html

Hopefully Buell reads all this unnecessary crapola about their under-engineered mufflers. Owner happiness should be paramount and a stainless steel muffler would go a long way towards that end.

(Message edited by electraglider_1997 on March 17, 2009)
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Longdog_cymru
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just spoke to the main dealer and he said he would give me (another) a new can!

He also said that they had "lost count of the number of Buell cans they have replaced under warranty", and that "normally, when there is a basic design flaw, the manufacturer changes the design", i.e. "they change the material or the supplier" because "these cans are costing them a fortune".
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Hughlysses
Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

EG- Interesting article on painting. IIRC a couple of people have had their Uly mufflers done with conventional powder coat. That article would seem to confirm that's OK given typical muffler temps. I wonder if using a paint more closely matched to the actual operating temperatures would give better results. Maybe engine paint (vs header paint) would be OK?
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I really went cheap. I brush coated the entire muffler (what isn't covered by the straps) with anti-seize compound and it is now a silvery color. It certainly has kept my axles from corroding and a little goes a very long way. It will bake on while riding and if it doesn't hold up to the environment it's up against I figure no harm done and then I'll try something else.
What's nice is that it is completely out of the way so I'm not worried about getting it on anything. The anti-seize container says it good to 1300 F. No problem there.



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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes, I need to change the date. Must be the date the camera was made. Reverts every time the battery is changed.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Craig- Ha! That's actually very close to something I was thinking about:



They used to coat the smokeboxes and exposed part of the fireboxes of steam locomotives with an oil/graphite mixture, which is probably very close in composition to anti-seize.

One thing's for sure, if it sticks to your muffler like it sticks to your hands, you won't have any trouble with it coming off!

(Message edited by hughlysses on March 18, 2009)
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 01:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hugh,
Liquid laundry detergent, hot water and a scrub brush did the trick. I did it without a shirt and was wearing a pair of sweat pants I don't care for. I would imagine that after I ride/bake it on I could always barbeque paint it black right over the anti-seize. That might actually put a hard finish to it. I just wanted to make sure that the surface rust wasn't going to eat holes in it and then cost me 500 clams or more for replacement. That I could not abide.
I see that we are both engineers and both born in 1956. Both have black ULY's but mine is an 06 with the tall seat.

(Message edited by electraglider_1997 on March 18, 2009)
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99savage
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Low tech crutch till I do something better:

Was spraying muffler w/ WD40 every time I went out, which had some place between zero & negligible effect.

Last couple of times did same thing to muffler I do to picnic grill - brushed cheap vegetable oil on.

1st thing noticed is the oil does not smoke even if brushed on while fan still running. Muffler must stay below ~ 450F

Oil dries up hard & actually hides the rust.

Can clean vegetable oil from clothes & driveway w/ dish detergent & ammonia.

Best thing is the ride smells like popcorn - Worst thing is the dog licks the muffler.

p.s.: No coating is any better than the surface prep. If you are having something coated grind out what rust you can then have GRIT blasted to AT LEAST NACE10 "Near White Metal". If you still see tattle tale gray spots grind them again.
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Louis,
What type, Canola or Corn?
Above I wrote that the never-seize was rated to 1300 F. Actually it reads 1600 F.
The thing I like is that the muffler is so low slung that no matter what you do to it you really can hardly see it anyways. Another thing with this super high temp Permatex anti-seize, you can rub a thin layer on the pipes and it changes them to a nice silver color. And it stays that way. Looks nice.
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99savage
Posted on Saturday, March 28, 2009 - 07:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What type, Canola or Corn?

Cheap stuff, like $1.50 for a quart. - They may be squeezing weeds.

Been using MolyDiSulfide grease for many, many years - Amazing stuff. Actually found a grease w/ something like 32,000lb/in^2 breakdown strength. ("Never-Sieze" not the best but always available & pretty good.)
Had an application where the stress was so intense a 4140, heat treated, nitrided screw was galling on a hi-strength CI nut. Found a MolyDiSulfide grease that eliminated it.

I could never get it out of or off of anything.
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Ulykan
Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Did you remove the muffler or just paint it as is? I assume that you painted over the rust so will that stop the rust or will it continue to rust under the Permatex? That looks like a good solution and it doesn't look bad either. On the headers, how tough is it to remove the Permatex completely and not leave an ugly mess behind? That's my concern with painting the headers. I do like it though.
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Electraglider_1997
Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 02:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ulykan,
I didn't remove the muffler. Try a spot like I did on the pipes. It'll come off without too much effort. The permatex might cost you 8 bucks and you can always just keep it around for the axles and the wheel bearing seals. I coat the outside of the wheel bearing to keep water and dirt out of the bearings.
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Pso
Posted on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 08:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I can get muffler powder coated for about $50. Is powder coating a good idea? I presently use b-b-q grill paint.
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99savage
Posted on Saturday, April 11, 2009 - 07:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Powder coating & stress analysis are about the only things I can speak authoritatively on.
Yeh, the right powder coating will work. - We have established that the muffler does not get above 450F & there are thermoset powders up to that. - Spend some time w/ the coater.
BUT
See my remarks above concerning the surface prep. No coating of any kind is better than the surface it is applied to.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 03:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Finally getting around to giving my muffler a thorough repaint. It's a bit of a PITA to remove (remove muffler fairing, remove right side passenger peg bracket, remove front sprocket cover, loosen rear axle 15 turns, remove idler pulley, loosen 3 muffler band clamps, loosen header clamp, detach interactive muffler valve cable, remove muffler!).

Mine was heavily rusted on the rear top and around the header connection despite getting a decent repaint (while still on the bike) about a year ago. I wire-brushed everything with a wirewheel in my drill, then went back with a Dremel too and flapper sanding disk, then got a rust/paint remover Scotchbrite wheel and worked some more. That probably got all the loose rust and 98% of the surface rust. Next I treated with phosphoric acid rust converter to hopefully kill ALL the rust prior to painting.

Odie had recommended Duplicolor high heat ceramic exhaust paint. I bought a can of this when I last touched up the muffler but it appears to be impossible to find now. Out of 6 auto parts stores and WalMart, I found it on the shelf at NAPA, but they had no black in stock and said they weren't carrying it any more. Next closest thing appears to be VHT high temperature exhaust paint which almost all these stores had in stock. I'm not sure if I'm going to try to "stretch" my Duplicolor or just go with the VHT. I'll take photos prior to and after painting.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here's a video of the recommended application procedure for the Duplicolor high heat paint from their website:

http://www.duplicolor.com/training/highheat_traini ng.html

Note- this assumes applying it to new metal.
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Court
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 04:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Can you buy the High Heat Duplicolor online?
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Hughlysses
Posted on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes, I think it's linked on Duplicolor's website. Other on-line shops like Summit carry it as well. I just got back from Pep Boys; I bought the last can of black they had on the shelf. Every place I went (including Pep Boys) seems to be replacing it with VHT. The VHT is rated for higher temps, but is flat black and recommends a much more elaborate curing process.

Doh! Duplicolor instructions recommend waiting SEVEN DAYS for the paint to cure before recoating recoat if you wait more than one hour before recoating. I think some artificial acceleration (hair dryer or similar) will be required.

(Message edited by hughlysses on August 03, 2009)
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Swampy
Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 11:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What about the header pipes corroding?
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Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 04:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I ran across some photos I took of my muffler repaint 1 year ago and thought I'd post them.

I spent a lot of time on this thing with every sort of powered abrasive wheel I could think of, including wire wheels in my drill and Dremel tool, sanding, and finally one of the spongey-looking abrasive wheels in my drill. That seemed to be one of the best working tools available. I still couldn't get all the rust off so I used one of the chemical rust converter products on a few areas.

These photos show the muffler after sanding and treatment:


1



2



3



4



5



6


OK, here's the finished product, painted using Duplicolor high heat paint. I also pre-cured as much as possible using a heat gun blowing through the inside of the muffler and against the outside. That still didn't really get the muffler hot enough to fully cure the paint (a lot more curing happened after I reinstalled it and started riding the bike) but I think it did help the process and made the paint less susceptible to damage when I was reinstalling the muffler.


7



8


One year later, the paint is holding up well in most areas. The area where the header collector attaches at the front is doing really well, and this was the first area to start rusting on the muffler and was the most heavily rusted when I did the paint job. On the other hand, some rust has reappeared in spots near the rear of the muffler. I think this is because the anti-rust treatment I used left some fairly thick streaks of goo in a few places and the paint later flaked off there. I need to get my Dremel out and do some touch up.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the performance of the paint. Oh yea, one important safety tip- if you remove the little anti-rattle spring from the muffler valve, be sure and put it back on before you reinstall the muffler. DAMHIK I had a bitch of time getting that spring back on without re-removing the muffler, but I managed to do it!
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Callawegian
Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2014 - 04:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I understand everyone's problem with mufflers rusting. I had a 2003 Lightning 9 and it's muffler never rusted in 14K miles. I then bought a 2006 Uly with 2250 mile and the can was rusted. I cured the issue with Rattle Can BBQ paint and it has required a little touch up, but it is a cheap fix.
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