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Xbolt12
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 01:37 am: |
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Wow, Just road my XB12R with a new set of Diablo Corsas on it. Once again the personality of the bike changed dramatically. Maybe it's just me, but these bikes seem really sensitive to tire changes. It may be simply due to tire diameter differences (or more specifically differences in the ratios between rear diameter and front diameter). I thought Pirellis were the same diameter as the Metzler Sportec M1's I've been using, but maybe not. If I did the math right using manufacturers specifications, the Sportec M1's dropped the front of the bike 7mm compared to the original Dunlop 207's which means less rake and more significantly less trail. The M1's made the XB feel like it had power steering. You could just flick it wherever you wanted in a turn. The Metzlers also got rid of almost all the stand up while trail braking (or maybe the 7mm drop did some of that). BTW- I hated the Dunlop 207's except for the tacky rubber compound. The XB would stand way up on the brakes and flop into the turn on release with the stock tire (and geometry?). Enter the Diablo Corsas. Stable as a rock. A lot more muscle needed to set up (counter steer), a little slower response than the M1's, but holy cow they are stable in a corner and stick like glue! I could not feel ANY stand up on trail braking and the jerky feeling of the Metzlers (oversteer?)in really tight corners is gone! I swear tires do make the bike and the rider. I am definitely faster and way more confident. The Metz would drift around some, but the Diablo Corsas feel glued to the pavement. Also the front needed no balancing weights at all and the back only needed .7 ounce. I can't say enough! Pirelli has my business from now on. PS-I am in no way connected to Pirelli, just jazzed about their tires Erik: Try the Pirellis! |
Outrider
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 08:01 am: |
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Erik: Try the Pirellis! He probably did but has his hands tied. Did you ever notice what brand tires HD uses exclusively? As Buell Dunlop's and Dunlop's Over-the-Counter Model's are not the same, I would suspect Erik has done his best to work within the parameters dictated by corporate for our best interests. |
BadS1
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 08:15 am: |
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The city-x has pirellis on it. |
Mikep
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 09:15 am: |
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xbolt12, It is really difficult to assess tires from one change to the next for a number of reasons. 1. You are likely going from a squared-off rear to a new round rear. Oops, that could be construed as inappropriate innuendo . . . 2. The worn out front does not act like a new front of any brand. No innueno . . . 3. Two different compounds. How does old rubber act vs new rubber. Questionable innuendo . . . 4. Different tread. One is sharp-edged and squirms around a bit more than barely any tread. No innuendo . . . 5. And more . . . Its just difficult. It would be nice to have new tires of each brand and try them on a race track one after the other and then be able to switch back and forth as you figured out the differences. I was planning on trying the M1's for the rear only of my XB9R. mike |
Outrider
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:07 am: |
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Bads...Thanks for catching me on that one. Then, I would presume that it is as safe bet that Erik has tested the Diablo's. Also, is interesting as I just read about Dunlop introducing a new high speed dual purpose tire. Hmmm...looks like they want to keep all the Buell Biz? Time will tell, eh? |
Court
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:07 am: |
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Tires, at Buell, are dictated by design and LOTS (ask me about the BLAST tires someday) of research and development. The idea that someone override Erik Buell because of corporate politics would be an inaccurate statement. Although, I'd love to be a mouse in the room when they tried. Court |
Outrider
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:20 am: |
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Didn't mean to imply it was politics. I was suggesting the economics of total corporate commitment and negotiations. Inaccurate or not, Buell OEM Dunlops are better (read: lighter and probably something else) than the over-the-counter equivalent which to me indicates that Erik & Company did spec the changes to meet the desired performance requirements. To confuse the issue further, I wonder if Dunlop would have made this change if it weren't for the clout of the HDI biz. Same applies to the new high speed dual purpose tire they recently introduced. Just wondering. Not attacking. Makes for a good Monday Mourning (intentional spelling) discussion, eh? |
Outrider
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:26 am: |
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Incidentally, I replaced the OEM Dunlop 207's on my X1 at 7,500 miles with the OTC equivalent and the ride is much harsher. Am planning on getting another set of OEM's from Hal's when these finally wear out. |
Court
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:44 am: |
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>>>I wonder if Dunlop would have made this change if it weren't for the clout of the HDI biz. Good question and one of the bennies that accrues to Buell as a result of the HD link. . .
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Outrider
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 11:44 am: |
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Oh gosh...Court is the one that negotiated the Dunlops. |
Blake
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 04:23 pm: |
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THANK YOU MIKE! |
R1DynaSquid
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 04:55 pm: |
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Well I just ordered a set of Diablos for my R1. Was considering the Corsas, but since I ride in the rain & they supposedly arent as good in the wet as the Diablos are, my choice was easy. I never even considered replacing my tires with another set of the Dunlop 218's for 1 reason & 1 reason only...cost. The rear tire alone is something like $250..screw that. I got the new ones for just over $200 for the pair. The Dunlops worked great, but now with over 4000 miles on them the rear is getting squared off & has suddenly gotten real greasy feeling. Been sliding it around quite a bit even after its heated up. Will see how the Diablos work at the track...coming up in 2 weeks PS..I agree with Mikes post & would like to add that I think a lot of it has to do with believing the press releases & acting as some sort of placebo affect. Even tho the new tires may be no better than your old ones were, becasue you read that they "are the best" you now have more confidence. |
Blake
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 06:10 pm: |
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Dunlop must be in love with their 218's. Have they hit the aftermarket mail order houses yet? When they do the price may come down. Which track? Suspension, suspension, suspension... |
R1DynaSquid
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 06:22 pm: |
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Blackhawk. Dave will be there, as will the Hoban brothers...remember the Buell racers you never heard of? And no those tires havent hit the mail order yet. Hell they dont even show them on their US site, gotta look at the European site for them. For that price they can keep em, decent enough tires, but im not spending that kinda $$ every 4000 or so miles. |
Xbolt12
| Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 10:00 pm: |
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No guys, sorry to disagree, but I rode all the tires from when they were new (4 sets and almost 9k on my 04 on twisties). Also I do not commute, so I wear the front tire out on the sides and the rear is pretty even. Not to mention that I have been riding bikes for many years and I am not talking about small differences here. Believe what you want to believe, but if you are smart you will take my word for it. The bike handles very differently with the Buell version of 207's vs Metzler M1, vs Pirelli Diablo Corsas. Each set of tires (I am talking about matched new sets)make the bike very different as far as stability, turn-in, trail braking, and stand up characteristics. Now as I mentioned in my previous post, some of the handling changes could be due to height changes between the front and rear of the bike. I can't be sure because I did not measure the circumference of each tire when it was new and mounted on the Buell rim (I wish I had). I do know that I used an article from Sportrider and calculated from Dunlops 207 spec and the M1 specs and got a 7mm drop on the front with no changes in fork position or preload. My guess is the change (for the better) with the M1's was due to a combination of steeper steering and rounder tire profile. My other guess is that the new Pirelli Diablo Corsa back tire is not as tall as the M1, hence the more stable steering and harder turn in. As for the traction change, again believe what you want, but I CAN tell the difference. I had a local rider on an X1 follow me (too closely in my opinion) through the same road recently and he mentioned that I was spinning and leaving rubber exiting most of the turns (said it would be easy to tell which way I went). This is why you pay more money for a track oriented sport tire-it has softer rubber compounds. Undoubtedly a 208gp would stick just as well. As for the Erik comment, I was kidding to a degree. We spoke about this issue at Laguna in July and he did say that the 208's are very heavy compared to the competition, but that a much lighter version is coming out soon. It was also obvious that there are big contracts with Dunlop (my words not his)and that Dunlop has been good about co-developing tires with Buell. I would be suprised if next year the XB doesn't come with some new lighter version of the 208. xbolt12 |
Kaese
| Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:10 am: |
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Got about 10K miles on my Corsa's and I have been very pleased with their performance. Mainly commute miles. Tracked well in the rain. Purchased a set of Diablo's at the same time when they had the special going on. The Corsa's happen to be shipped first and I needed new rubber bad. I will probably be a little disappointed with the harder compound of the Diablo's. |
Mikep
| Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:45 am: |
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Xbolt12, So, which rear would you install on your XB9R if you were going to retain the Dunlop front? The Pirelli Diablo or the Metzler M1? mike |
Kaese
| Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:56 am: |
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I was in the same dilemma as you, on my first puncture. 2K on the rear and so I ended up getting a 208. As luck had it, 200 miles later, another puncture. Plugged it this time and it both lasted only to 8500 miles, down to the cord and the front was waffled bad. Corsas came along and 11K later, they are still going strong. Personally, I would dump the Dunlops and spring for a new front. It will save you a lot of hassle in the future. my 2cents |
Glitch
| Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:15 pm: |
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Personally, I would dump the Dunlops and spring for a new front. It will save you a lot of hassle in the future. Me too. So now you have four cents! |
Light_keeper
| Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:47 pm: |
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Court (ask me about the BLAST tires someday) OK i'm asking. Got only about 2000 mi out of them. Sandy |
R1DynaSquid
| Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:49 pm: |
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When the wife had her Blast she too only got about 2000 miles out of the rear tire. Definitely didnt replace it with another low mileager like that one. |
Darthane
| Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 01:24 pm: |
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Unfortunately it doesn't seem like any of the other options I've seen for the Blast are all that much better in terms of life. I've gotten more like 4K out of each of my rears on the Blast, and since they've never slipped in any weather conditions (well, there was that one time in winter when I rode home in the snow...) I've had no great impetus to use aftermarket tires other than the fact that I can only get the damned things at a Harley dealer. |
Xbolt12
| Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:23 am: |
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MikeP, I have never mixed tire brands and models, but I spoke with someone who races and has mixed tires with good success. I would think that the Diablo Corsa would work better though, simply because I believe the 207 front is shorter than either the Diablo Corsa or the M1 and the M1 rear is a very tall tire compared with the 207 rear. My guess is your steering would get too quick and you would have to lower the fork tubes in the clamps to compensate if you used the Metzler rear. Pirelli Diablo Corsas are quite expensive though, so you might want to use Metzlers or Pirell Diablos (not Diablo Corsa). BTW if you decide to go with the Metzler M1 Sportecs, I have a front tire I just took off my bike when I put the Pirellis on this weekend. It has a ride from San Diego to Laguna Seca and a couple of short rides on it. I would say it has at least 60% or more life left and may even outlast a new rear. $50 plus shipping and it's yours. Let me know as I will be posting it on our local sportbike message board in a couple of days. xbolt12 |
Jasonxb12s
| Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 02:23 am: |
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I have the Corsas on my xb as well. I have to say the the performance has at least doubled since I've had them installed. Maybe some will tell you to paint them. ps "I'm a dick, dick????dick...." |
Xbolt12
| Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 12:11 am: |
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Jasonxb12s, ???????? Sarcasm? xbolt12 |
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