| Author | Message | ||
     Ron_luning |
From motorcycledaily: http://www.motorcycledaily.com/20february09_cagiva _elefant.htm | ||
| Adoogie3 |
ooooo bad | ||
| Dhdjr |
Chain drive, nice bodywork & brembo's...pretty cool | ||
| Mainstreamer |
Make mine an Elefant with belt drive........ P L E A S E!! | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
I'M IN LOVE... JT  | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
 | ||
| Steeltech |
I honestly don't know if I should like or hate this concept. If this is what Harley/Buell wanted to do with this platform, why didn't they do it? I know Buell has its engineering background with the frame and what not. I just don't want people to think "I like the engine, but this bike over here has that engine and I like the looks more" taking away from Buell's sales. I realize this would answer a lot of folks' desires as far as aesthetics, but I must say it isn't to far from any other crotch rocket on the street. Not saying I don't like the look, but if this is what they think people want why doesn't Buell make the 1125 enduro....or the 1125 crotchrocket that looks like every other crotchrocket. I still say they should shrink the displacement for that "elefant". That is an ungodly ammount of power on that bike and it will consume a great deal of fuel for what power is used. Either way...I'm not gonna trade in my 1125 for an 1125. | ||
| Midknyte |
It's all wild speculation and rasterbation. But I'd have more than mixed feelings about the 1125's motor being used in, and gaining acceptance, in "another" bike. They've fought the good fight too long and too hard. | ||
| Ponti1 |
Hehehe...He said rasterbation.  | ||
| Mainstreamer |
"They" (you mean H-D right?) invested time and money to develop that motor and need to be able to capitalize on the investment. Buell had an opportunity to hit a home run with the 1125R but that was not the case.... as judged by the market place. We all know that H-D is in serious trouble now and they need to do what they can to survive. It will be interesting to see if Buell will survive through these difficult times. Is it possible that all Buells could soon become collector items?? | ||
| Dentguy |
Is it possible that all Buells could soon become collector items?? Anything is possible. | ||
| Steeltech |
If they do....they better make parts for me for the next freakin 10 years... | ||
| Hellgate |
Steeltech - The lead time on developing a new bike is probably 3 to 4 years. This opportunity looks like it recently popped up for HD so its simply a timing issue. Will Buell go away, who knows, but will Cagiva surpass Buell sales, probably not, as they have come and gone several times over the years. I look at is this way. If HD can find a formula to sell more bikes and get back to making a profit more power to them. Because unless they return to profitability, and dig them selves out of the hole they are in Buells will go away. | ||
| Mainstreamer |
"but will Cagiva surpass Buell sales, probably not, as they have come and gone several times over the years." So true... but now they have the support of H-D, the best company in the world at marketing motorcycles and "lifestyle". One of the things that Buell has not been successful at is to define and market a lifestyle/image that is widely accepted. Perhaps with Cagiva there is a better chance at that...... you know a little Italian flare. Just take a look at the resent success of Ducati. Surely H-D would like to ride the coat tales of that Italian success story. I worry that it may be too late for the great mother ship! Did they think they were too big to fail? | ||
| Hellgate |
Duc has changed hands a number of times too and at one point was owned by Cagiva! Then Duc was purchased by a group in Texas, who actually turned them around, then if I'm not mistaken, Duc when back to the Italian government. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). Bottomline, they've not turned much of a profit and have needed a Sugar Daddy, in for form or another, to keep them afloat. HD is great at selling a lifestyle, that lifestyle is a unique one. I think the Cagiva, Duc, MV is too similar, and too expensive to really stand out and make a profit. Where as the "Americana" thing sells from Japan to Germany. I do hope I'm wrong however and the Cagiva and MV are wildly popular, but I don't think so. When times are tough it is usually best for a business to focus on what they do best, work on strengthen their position and grow market share. The whole MV and Cag thing simply takes their eye off the ball. | ||
| Court |
>>>Is it possible that all Buells could soon become collector items?? No >>>purchased by a group in Texas, who actually turned them around That was Texas Pacific Group and if you think they "turned it around" you likely didn't hold any ADR's at one point you could not order parts. TPG dumped them and bought Burger King. . . . I'd suggest that the reason behind the purchase had little to do with motorcycle models or production . . . regardless of how many photoshopped things folks toss out there. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The million dollar question is if Harley is the master of selling "a lifestyle" or "the lifestyle". I hope they look hard at what went well with Buell (both directions... Buell <=> Harley), which was a lot, and what is going badly, which is also a lot. Harley certainly continues to butcher selling the Buell lifestyle, that's for sure. But I know they are smart people, and have to believe that they can learn quick when their back is against the wall... | ||
| Midknyte |
"They" (you mean H-D right?) invested time and money to develop that motor huh-wha? Buell went to Rotax (wholly or in part?) because HD did not have the time and resources to design and build the new engine. HD involvement was indirect. | ||
| Bigschwerm |
very nice.... | ||
| Mainstreamer |
"huh-wha? Buell went to Rotax (wholly or in part?) because HD did not have the time and resources to design and build the new engine. HD involvement was indirect." How many years has Buell made a profit? Me thinks most of the finance for development may have come from the mother ship. No? "Harley certainly continues to butcher selling the Buell lifestyle, that's for sure." It's up to Buell to do their own branding(image/lifestyle), not the mother ship. | ||
| Anonymous |
Mainstreamer, It was Buell's money that delivered the motor, although it's true that H-D allowed them to invest everything they made into it rather than contributing to shareholder returns. And Buell does not direct marketing the lifestyle. Buell Motorcycle makes motorcycles that are sold to Buell Distribution, LLC, which handles all sales and marketing and is completely staffed by H-D people. And now that Buell has a real sportbike, these guys can get going. They've been a klittle busy with H-D though. So Italian "flare" is better? America can't build a sportbike? BS, Buell is just getting started. It was hard to build an image in the sportbike market with an H-D motor, but those days are over. | ||
| Pridayr |
Can I get a "Hell Yeah!" +1, Annon... | ||
| Dentguy |
Anonymous said And now that Buell has a real sportbike, these guys can get going. Wow, I didn't know Buell didn't consider the XB12R a real sportbike. I guess it was just a fake or imitation? Maybe they need to change the website and put the XB12R in a different category. | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
Yup I laid down good money for a not a sportbike XB12R also. Sad, I liked it until I found that out. | ||
| Rubberdown |
"It was hard to build an image in the sportbike market with an H-D motor, but those days are over." Sounds like the development of air cooled Buell hotrods is ending. Sad from my perspective. I really like the idea of an updated S1 or the like. Look what BMW's managed to do with the boxer. Long live air cooled sport "hotrod" bikes! | ||
| Clarkjw |
Anon, it's not a real sport bike until you fix the 2008 fuel injection AND enter WSBK! I can wait on one longer that the other  | ||
| 4cammer |
"And now that Buell has a real sportbike, these guys can get going." Hmmmm...so all of the area squids that told me to "get a real sportbike" were right? A real sportbike does not need 100+ ponies in my opinion. I guess my hope for a street legal XBRR based 'bolt is now really dead. I like the 1125R, REALLY like the 1125CR (in red!) but love my XB9R. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I miss my XB9R a little, sometimes. I miss the low rumble of the race can in town. I loved to watch her wiggle idling on the sidestand. Unfortunately, if she were still here, I know which one would get ridden every day. Loretta is the most awesome machine I've ever thrown a leg over. Buell is going nowhere but UP. The 1125 platform will supply sportbikes and such. I expect the air-cooled to stick around for the "Hooligan" market. Z | ||
| Ron_luning |
"It was hard to build an image in the sportbike market with an H-D motor, but those days are over." I think some of you are misunderstanding the above quote. He is not saying that previous Buells were not sportbikes per se, just that the massive sportbike market didn't recognize them as anything other than a niche bike that a small group of customers wanted. Plus, in the hands of magazine journalists and pro riders, the air cooled bikes do not compare well against the liquid cooled bikes from Japan, Italy, etc...especially when ridden on a racetrack where most magazine tests are done. So what I think he's saying is that now Buell has the fundamental requirement (i.e. competitive engine) to tap into the massive sportbike sales market. Maybe you don't think that a bike needs 100+HP, but tens of thousands of buyers each year in the US alone do. Buell is in the business of selling bikes, and that means as many as possible. I am an example of a lifelong Jap bike owner who now owns a Buell because it is finally competitive. If Buell stuck with the H-D engine forever, then Buell would forever be a tiny player in the bike market. | ||
| Boltrider |
I love my Firebolt just as much as the next guy, but if you guys think it's a superbike, then you're dreaming. The 1125 is the next step up in the bike chain. |
