| Author | Message | ||
     R1DynaSquid |
I'm not even that good on reaction time, but the local squids are, for the most part, worse. Believe me when I say I know what you mean. When I rode the X1 I would regularly beat 600's...for the first block anyways. Spent 1 afternoon playing tag with a guy who had a new 02 R1...he was afraid to launch the damn thing & from 3 different stoplights I smoked him. Comes down to the rider & that's it...unless they are equal then obviously its hp & gearing. | ||
| Blake |
"A new R1 pulls harder in 4th gear than a cyclone pulls in first gear." That is a complete and utter crock. I'd not be surprised if a Buell Blast will pull harder in 1st gear than an R1 in 4th gear. Simply calculate the thrust at the contact patch of the rear tire. Simple drive ratio math. Torque at crankshaft times drive ratio in applicable gear divided by radius from rear axle to contact patch. Get real. | ||
| M1combat |
"Comes down to the rider & that's it...unless they are equal then obviously its hp & gearing." HAH.. LOL  . You seemed to have forgotten a few key things Dyna . What about wheel base, CG, suspension setup and tire pressure (among other things I am sure I have forgotten)? Obviously... LOL . | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Really yanks your chain dont it Blake to even have the concept that a bike could pull harder in 4th than an M2 in 1st? Throw some math at it, that will make you feel better. Look at any performance numbers you want...0-60/ 0-100/ 40-60/ 60-80....etc. Doesnt matter which numbers you choose because the litre bikes will STOMP on the challengers. Have you tried out a 155 rwhp litre bike & nailed it in 4th gear from 7000 rpms? The bike will do an instant wheelie if you dont have your weight all the way forward. Nothing wrong with the XB12's power at all..or a Cyclones either. Just dont even try to compare it to a litre bike because thats just silly. Why not enjoy your bike for what it is & quit trying to make it something its not??? | ||
| Aesquire |
As far as motors go... I want an engine like the old Honda Sabre, without the fragile bottom end. Heck, like a race Interceptor, with gear drive replacing the cam chain. V4, 4 valve heads, rocker arm valve adjustment. ( not freaking shims, please! ) Make it lighter & stronger than the Honda, and as narrow as possible. 110 RWHP would be nice. I prefer a bike to bellow, rather than shriek, & I love how narrow my Cyclone is. My old GS1100 ( the alumineeum hammer ) was wide & buzzy. Come to think of it, maybe I'll just get the headwork & cams. | ||
| M1combat |
"Nothing wrong with the XB12's power at all..or a Cyclones either. Just dont even try to compare it to a litre bike because thats just silly. Why not enjoy your bike for what it is & quit trying to make it something its not???" Who the heck do you think you are man? YOU were the one comparing your R1 with the Buells... "Don't make me bring out the numbers man!" LOL. I don't ride numbers Dude... Get a clue dyna... You are the one that can't accept that there might just be a situation that you can put a bike into where HP hardly matters. Funny thing is... The people on this board who own and like Buells understand that this situation is the PREDOMINANT situation. A good portion of us live for this event. It's the reason motorcycles are fun. It's called a CORNER. YOU don't get it. That's OK with me though... I could really care less... Just keep going "really fast" w/o hanging off LOL. Line it up and twist Dyna... Squirter. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Psst M1..go back & read thru the posts. I didnt even start the stuff about the R1...someone else did. And you forget that I own a Buell, put quite a few miles on it & a number of track days. My opinion is certainly not based without knowing the facts & having tested the waters on both types of bikes. BTW..you might want to read thos months Performance Bike magazine. They have an article all about cornering. They also mention its not needed nor required to hang off & those who's main objective is to do just that, are often times slower than people who just concentrate on improving their lines. You planning on attending any Buell events next year? If so & you are in my area I will be sure to "educate" you on cornering.  | ||
| Davegess |
HDI owns Buell, while Erik is a executive, (I forget his title) I do not think he is calling the shots. HDI holds the purse strings, the people who pay your salary and fund your projects get to tell you what to do Budo, the way HD works is that the stratigic planning group calls the big picture shots. They help set the overall direction of the company and what products are developed in what direction. Buell has several "Buell Guys" in this group and I see above they may have gained another one. The XB happened because Erik convinced this group it should happen, and not because it would eventually sell big twins. Erik is a LOT more than employee, not at the Willie G level but a guy with a fair bit of influence at the highest levels. And a lot of talent in convincing people to let him do what he needs to do. He doesn't win every battle but so far he is winning the war. Since the beginning of the HD Buell relationship we have seen a steady increase in the amount of resources Buell gets. And the bikes are less and less like Harleys. Methinks you have been misled. If the pace of improvment and coolness continues at the rate it is going I think we will be seeing some very cool bikes being sold in some very large numbers within 5 years. After all they have gone from 100 bikes to 10000 bikes in 10 years, at that rate they will be at 100000 by 2014. | ||
| Ray_maines |
Some of you guys need to get out and ride a few different bikes. Believe it or not, there are bikes out there that handle better than a Buell. Other bikes go faster. Some are built better. Most are more comfortable and the're all cheaper. | ||
| R1DynaSquid |
Ray..I dont know about the more comfortable aspect. After 5400 miles my @ss still says the stock seat sux. Course I also know the folks with the XBS's...especially the low models have it just as bad. | ||
| Davegess |
Ray, I have. I like my Buell. don't say it is the best biek out there but I do like the way it handles, the size of the thing, the sound etc. Traded the bike I had for ten years to buy it, A GB500 Honda. Only thing I don't like about my Buell, it is too heavy, weighs more the the GB  Seems lots of folk like them they are seslling pretty well. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Ray, You need to get off your high (and poor handling) horse, and realize we do know what is going on out there, and we know you are wrong! | ||
| Keith |
"BTW..you might want to read thos months Performance Bike magazine. They have an article all about cornering. They also mention its not needed nor required to hang off & those who's main objective is to do just that, are often times slower than people who just concentrate on improving their lines." Would someone PLEASE tell Valentino? Keith | ||
| M1combat |
It's all about technique... Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent. If you don't practice hanging off (I agree, until someone figures out how to hang off the bike they may not be faster than someone who isn't trying, they won't be as smooth) then you will never be comfortable with it. Hanging off the bike IS necessary to go "fast". Sure, you can go 5-10 seconds down (which is still pretty fast)if you don't and certainly be 5-10 seconds up on other people, but you won't be world class. If you don't practice the proper procedure you won't ever get it. You don't practice one way and get "good" at it and then "start throwin' in the complicated stuff". You jump right into the fire... If I'm wrong - Would someone PLEASE tell Valentino? | ||
| Blake |
"Really yanks your chain dont it Blake to even have the concept that a bike could pull harder in 4th than an M2 in 1st?" This from the same "man" (I use the word hesitantly) who in reference to my eight year old Buell Cyclone feels the need to boast that "you aint got a hope in hell of keeping up with the R1 on the track...race rubber or not". I've raced a few times and been soundly beaten by competitors on 600cc IL4's and even SV650's. Somehow, the fact that LOTS of motorcycles are faster than my Buell Cyclone, THE best motorcycle ever built, just doesn't bother me, not in the least. What does peak my interest is lively and honest discussion and most things technical related to motorcycle performance, like calculating thrust at the contact patch for an R1 in 4th gear versus a Buell Blast in 1st gear... With 30 FT*LBs of torque at the crankshaft, it looks like a Buell Blast will be putting down around 419 LBs of thrust at the contact patch. That'd be 30 FT*LBs x 12IN/FT x 13.352 / 11.50 IN = 419 LBs With 74 FT*LBs of torque at the crankshaft, an R1 will put down about 448 LBs of thrust at the contact patch. That'd be 74 FT*LBs x 12IN/FT x 6.089 / 12.04 = 448 LBs. Lucky fortunate you Greg! Your 160 HP Yamaha R1 in 4th gear just barely edges out a Buell Blast in 1st gear. You must be bursting with pride! Be sure to tell EVERYONE you meet! And send a press release to the Discovery Channel; surely they won't want to miss out on this ground breaking revelation! Stop the presses! The above analysis neglects the effects of aerodynamic drag on total net thrust. For the Blast in 1st gear drag is not a significant factor, but for an R1 in fourth gear and into the meat of the torque curve above 7,000 rpm, it certainly could be. Looks like before the revs climb above 7,500 rpm the R1's torque never climbs above 65 FT*LBs. Never mind, the Blast wins after all. I appeal to all BadWebers in the vicinity of S.E. WI to please immediately set up an emergency psychological anti-depression intervention for Greg. Be sure to repeatedly affirm to him in a calming soothing voice that his Yamaha R1 is faster than your Buell motorcycle. His self esteem depends on your urgent attention. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Believe it or not, there are bikes out there that handle better than a Buell. Other bikes go faster. Some are built better. Most are more comfortable and the're all cheaper. Ray: We do believe it and have, perhaps, a better handle on what the "world out the window" looks like than you may realize. The concept, embodied by the way in the new Buell XB CityCrosser (Cx - (improperly labeld SX by folks at Buell) is evidence of that. You can put the sugar, the flour, the salt and the dough on the table...but, guess what? I eat cookies. Having the individual components of a motorcycle scattered around the commercial arena speaks to the technology but does little to move my aging and expanding butt about town. I want a motorcycle to ride. I could care less about raw "stats". Some folks exist out of touch with the "what suits me best" concept. my riding partner is a great example. He owns 2 KLR's, a Bandit 1200 (w/$7K of mods), a Super-Hayabusa, two Honda's and bought a Suzuki DRX400 last week. This weekend he's (you explain this to me) trailering the Hayabusa to Redding, PA to ride. Buell has looked out the window and said who are our customers and what do they NEED. Next, they've tossed in some "what do they WANT" tempered with what works best in combination. You will always find faster, better handling and you name the attribute bikes in the world. The key, my friend, is melding them in a commercial package that I WANT. Buell is a motorcycle company, not a design competition. Yesterday at work, in my row at the parking lot, was a brand spanking new Ferrari, a yellow Viper and a Black Viper. They, I'm guessing here, are faster and handle better than my 140,000 mile F-250. As I loaded the 4 sheets of plywood and 10 bags of red cedar mulch and cranked up Axis Bold As Love to the threshold of pain, I remembered how I much I loved my old pickup. Erik Buell, commercial positioning and any magic the PR folks attempt to do, is a real motorcycle rider. You, and many of us, see him on the "Rider Icon" role at events. I've been riding down a country road in WI and come across him (remind me to tell you the story of Erik on the White S3 and what he was doing the night Bret Schaller and I found him at 7:00pm) when he was just out riding for fun. Erik, and in fact the entire Buell team, has a keen sense of being able to meld a myriad of things that work with innovative (remember when it was "impossible" to build a sub-54" wheelbase and perimeter braking was a "pipe dream" due to gyroscopic precession and rotational inertia?) that WORK. Not magazine ad crud, just ideas that benefit US as riders. Cost less? Yeah, some do. Cost is an odd sort of metric. Frankly, my current "want list" has nothing on it over $5K including the Bonneville, CB-1 and 441 Victor. Of course I lust over the two Britten V1000's a pal owns. Price is but a commercial line drawn to facilitate interaction between buyer and seller. It's a tool, not so much a measurement. I've long said that my $15 Timex keeps far better time than a $5K Rolex. I once challenged a fellow pilot, if he thought his $10K watch was evidence of quality, to time a non-precision NDB approach with it. Me?...I'm going with the Timex. Buell, to me, represents a host of qualities. Over the years, Buell has provided me with motorcycles that I can ride and that provide total enjoyment. I can get on a Buell, 15 days in a row, ride it from 5:30AM until Midnight and catch myself wanting to ride more at the end of the day. Buell has never tried to be everything to everybody, you'll never see a "Volksbuell". Erik and team recognize the limits and constraints imposed by their resources. As those resources expand, they realize they are called to remain focused. I'm more impressed, presently, with Buells ability to turn the dial and effect the volume. A couple years ago, remember the "Buell will never survive the recalls" days?, it seemed Buell was trying to hold balloons under water in a bathtub. The group retrenched an gave us a completely new platform that, to date, promises to be one of the most reliable ever made and threatens to become the envy of the Japanese. So, as you zip about on your faster, better handling, cheap motorcycle, I'll continue moving this ear-to-ear grin about the country on my Buell. Court | ||
| Rek |
Well-spoken, Court  | ||
| Rokoneer |
I'm going to take this thread on a brief detour for a post..... Honestly Court I am one of the guys here who tends to graze over the majority of long posts on the board, just kind of skim them to see what words in there catch my eye. BUT...when I see a post of ANY length written by you I read it slowly and absorb all that you have written because not is the quality of writing excellent but it sure seems like the content of what you have written just plain makes sense. There are a few people who write about motorcycling whom I actually get enjoyment out of because they are able to involve me on some level. Their writings capture me and allow me to relate on some level. You are one of those guys, at least to me. Keep it up... Please allow yourself to travel upstate sometime and make my XB the first that you spend any seat time on. Enough high praise and buttock kissing, back to the thread as it was intended. | ||
| Outrider |
Enough high praise and buttock kissing, back to the thread as it was intended. I am not sure that this is an accurate statement. Seems to me that when addressing the motor Buell should have built, a list of pro's and con's is a good thing. In essence, if Buell has done something that you like, that has just as much merit as something that another manufacturer has done that someone else likes. Just my opinion and most likely not shared by anyone else. LOL | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
outrider i think he was refering to the fact that he was praising and kissing courts butt | ||
| Outrider |
Nobody kisses Court's butt. There ain't a ladder tall enough to reach it!  | ||
| Rokoneer |
Firebolt020283, "That is an accurate statement" | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
thats kinda what i was figuring | ||
| Court |
>>>Just my opinion and most likely not shared by anyone else. LOL If ALL opinion were shared, there'd be no opinions. Hearing them is where the value of this board lies. Court | ||
| Spiderman |
so was that soft glo or 100 watt? | ||
| Ezblast |
If you want the scientifically measured quickest bike through corners take the Firebolt,... - nice Quote - also from PB GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Johncr250 |
I was the one who talked about my ride on an R1 the other day. So blame me, not Dyna. It was my first ride on the 04`s and i was just amazed how hard they pull. So hard in fact that the front end comes right up with just rolling on the throttle on the highway in 4th. I still love my S3, but that Yami does pull harder in 4th than mine in first. Just ride one and see! | ||
| Kaudette |
Anyhow - "the motor that BUELL should have built..." 120 rwhp (100 @ 6000 rpm), 80 ft lbs @ 3500 rmp and flat to 7000 - redline @ 8500. V2. 20000 mile maintenance intervals (internals/valves, etc) 40 mpg. How about that for a starting point... | ||
| Budo |
Works for me  | ||
| Crusty |
My ideal motor? 100 HP, 100 Lb/Ft, air cooled, pushrod operated valves,infrequent and easy maintenance; sitting in a chassis that will let me ride for 16 hours a day comfortably and has decent hard bags. It has to look as good as the S3-T, too. (That last part will be almost impossible, but the rest should be easy enough for the folks in East Troy) |
