| Author | Message | ||
     Ferris_von_bueller |
Published: August 4, 2009 WASHINGTON — A pair of nuclear-powered Russian attack submarines has been patrolling off the eastern seaboard of the United States in recent days, a rare mission that has raised concerns inside the Pentagon and intelligence agencies about a more assertive stance by the Russian military. The episode has echoes of the cold war era, when the United States and the Soviet Union regularly parked submarines off each other’s coasts to steal military secrets, track the movements of their underwater fleets — and be poised for war. But the collapse of the Soviet Union all but eliminated the ability of the Russian Navy to operate far from home ports, making the current submarine patrols thousands of miles from Russia more surprising for military officials and defense policy experts. “I don’t think they’ve put two first-line nuclear subs off the U.S. coast in about 15 years,” said Norman Polmar, a naval historian and submarine warfare expert. The submarines are of the Akula class, a counterpart to the Los Angeles class attack subs of the United States Navy, and not one of the larger submarines that can launch intercontinental nuclear missiles. According to Defense Department officials, one of the Russian submarines remained in international waters on Tuesday about 200 miles off the coast of the United States. The location of the second remained unclear. One senior official said the second submarine traveled south in recent days toward Cuba, while another senior official with access to reports on the surveillance mission said it had sailed away in a northerly direction. The Pentagon and intelligence officials spoke anonymously to describe the effort to track the Russian submarines, which has not been publicly announced. The submarine patrols come as Moscow tries to shake off the embarrassment of the latest failed test of the Bulava missile, a long-range weapon that was test fired from a submarine in the Arctic on July 15. The failed missile test was the sixth since 2005, and some experts see Russia’s assertiveness elsewhere as a gambit by the military to prove its continued relevance. “It’s the military trying to demonstrate that they are still a player in Russian political and economic matters,” Mr. Polmar said. One of the submarines is the newer Akula II, officials said, which is quieter than the older variant and the most advanced in the Russian fleet. The Akula is capable of carrying torpedoes for attacking other submarines and surface vessels as well as missiles for striking targets on land and at sea. Defense Department officials declined to speculate on which weapons might be aboard the two submarines. While the submarines have not taken any provocative action beyond their presence outside territorial waters of the United States, officials expressed wariness over the Kremlin’s motivation for ordering such an unusual mission. “Anytime the Russian Navy does something so out of the ordinary it is cause for worry,” said a senior Defense Department official who has been monitoring reports on the submarines’ activities. The official said the Navy was able to track the submarines as they made their way through international waters off the American coastline. This can be done from aircraft, ships, underwater sensors or other submarines. “We’ve known where they were, and we’re not concerned about our ability to track the subs,” the official added. “We’re concerned just because they are there.” Once among the world’s most powerful forces, the Russian Navy now has very few ships regularly deployed on the open seas. Moscow has contributed warships to the international armada searching for Somali pirates. Another example of how Russia’s navy has sought to display global reach came last year when a flotilla of warships sailed for exercises with Venezuela. The submarine patrols off the East Coast follow Russia’s resumption last year of bomber runs off the coast of Alaska. Russia began sending Tu-95 Bear bombers through international airspace near Alaska in what was interpreted as a signal of the Kremlin’s unhappiness over decisions by the United States and Europe to recognize Kosovo’s independence, in defiance of Russia. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
The official said the Navy was able to track the submarines as they made their way through international waters off the American coastline. This can be done from aircraft, ships, underwater sensors or other submarines. Yep, thanks to our local service men and women of VP-30 and their P-3's based here at Jacksonville Naval Air Station!  | ||
| Lonewolfnavet |
Go Navy! | ||
| Moxnix |
I'm old enough to remember the last P-2V squadron and the days when every day there were 7 to 10 Russkie subs off the West Coast. Great airplanes, those Lockheed Electras. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Hmmmmmm...... | ||
| Blake |
Can you say "KAWWHOOOOSHHHHH!!!" | ||
| Moxnix |
Senators, Advisers Urge Obama to Double Afghan Forces http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&si d=aAFZskgzLx1U I find this more troubling than the bloody Russian subs. Obama & Co. will not have learned anything from history about fighting a war in Afghanistan. No one has, 'cept Reagan, who supplied the mujahadin w/ enough weapons enough to run the Russians out after a decade. And paid the warlords lots of money. | ||
| Court |
>>>Can you say "KAWWHOOOOSHHHHH!!!" Precisely my thinking . . . the current Russian subs are no match for the current anti-sub defenses. Most Russians that have died on subs have done so at depth . . these guys may be the first at ALTITUDE.  You KNOOOOOOOOW those poor sailors know that too . . . | ||
| Circusninja |
Dang dirty Russians! GO NAVY! | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Are they trying to give us something to do? Since 1962, TACAMO has (luckily) only flown training missions. That leaves us with a lot of spare time... TACAMO: "If we have a bad day, you won't see tomorrow." | ||
| Moxnix |
And a 22.000 foot trailing wire antenna. Much loooooonger than what the P-2V pulled. | ||
| Brinnutz |
to some of us, this isn't new...that's all I have to say about that. | ||
| Blake |
Word! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Time to update the resume. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
FLY NAVY!!!! Love it that jax got the upgrades and the new fleet. Love having the U.S. Navy in town. | ||
| Nevrenuf |
i know what we had back in the 70's to get rid of a sub. god only knows what we have now to pick one off like a caged animal. +2 on the "GO NAVY" | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"FLY NAVY!!!!" Who else is going to show the Air Force how it's done? Its always entertaining to watch the Air Force use a dozen guys when recovering their AWACS here. We recover our E-6's (same 707 airframe as the AWACS) with 2 or 3 people.. And generally get the birds "put to bed" in less time. | ||
| Rfischer |
The Russian subs are merely resuming standard training doctrine and evolutions after a long hiatus due to lack of funding. FYI, following the loss of the Russian nuclear sub and crew in the Baltic 6 years ago, the retired Commander of the Russian sub forces wrote an op-ed in the major papers lambasting the current naval leadership and their civilian political bosses, branding them as "criminally responsible." He was highly critical of the lack of money for maintenance and training and flatly stated that the [sub] fleet was incapable of getting underway safely or effectively. He was especially critical of allowing a nuclear submarine to go to sea without the usual support vessels or safety resources. If there was no money to do it by the book, the boat should have stayed in port he argued. What is happening now is that money has been provided to the Russian Navy and they are doing what navies are supposed to do: get underway and train, including AOR patrols, which for the Russian Navy clearly includes the Atlantic. | ||
| Swordsman |
I've never understood why there's a beef between the USA and Russia to begin with, aside from the whole communism thing. Even then, I don't understand why a communist country and a democracy can't be on good terms...? ~SM | ||
| Hootowl |
"The Russian subs are merely resuming standard training doctrine and evolutions after a long hiatus due to lack of funding." Where's the flashy news story in that? Navies from several countries are deployed all over the world. That's what they do, even in peacetime. | ||
| Zane |
A couple of Russian subs off our coast isn't a big deal. The hostility level between them and us is in reality pretty low. But if things ever heat up badly, the Russian navy will lead a very short and exciting life. | ||
| Rfischer |
It's the "sphere of influence" thing, exacerbated on the Russian side by their well-founded historical fears and suspicions about being attacked or otherwise blindsided in the Motherland. It would help if U.S. leadership would read a little history before trying to engage the Russians. Both Bush and Obama [have] demonstrated first-class ignorance when dealing with the Kremlin. One "looked in the eyes..[of Putin]", and the other more recently declared a "new beginning". Neither had or has a clue what the Russian leadership was/is thinking or what their agenda and modus operendi is. Can we "get along"? Absolutely, but only on terms that understand and allow for the uniquely Russian perspective [paranoia]. They are not and never will be "our friends"; they can certainly be our partners and, from time to time, allies. They will also always be our competitor or adversary in some matters. | ||
| Kyrocket |
Are we even sure the Russian subs are operated by the Russians? Money talks. Could be Afghans, Koreans, Iraqis, or any number of freedom hating countries hiding out in the deep blue sea. Either way they all blow up and sink the same. | ||
| Ducbsa |
the Russian navy will lead a very short and exciting life Reminds me of the slogan, "You can run, but you'll just die tired." | ||
| Rfischer |
"Are we even sure the Russian subs are operated by Russians?" Yes, we are. | ||
| Hootowl |
We watch them get underway and follow them until they return to port, so yeah, pretty sure they came from Russia. | ||
| Rfischer |
You can take it to the bank that every member of the crew on those boats is a Russian. Russian paranoia guarantees it. BTW, I've been to Kronshtadt, home of the Russian Baltic fleet [established by Peter the Great in 1773], used my USCG ID to gain access [respect among sailors worldwide] and chatted with some of the kids. Wonderful experience. | ||
| Greenlantern |
 We're ready. | ||
| Moxnix |
No one is going to volunteer to confess to you how many US subs are off the coast of Russia. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Maybe Captain Pete thumbed a ride, and they were just dropping him off... |
