| Author | Message | ||
     Mikej |
Anyone know anything about wolves as pets? Got a hybrid or wolfdog next door at the new place and it's eyeing our new pups as possible food possibly. It's kept on the neighbor's second story porch with wide board railings that it can easily pass through, both me and the officer I called witnessed it with all but it's hind legs on the wrong side of the railings looking as if it was gauging the jump distance to the ground. The owner is usually absent, leaves the door open to the upper unit of the duplex where she lives, and sometimes just ties it up to a cable with alley blocking length. Just wondering how concerned I should be with it up there looking down on our back yard, and wondering if I should also be concerned with the Mrs's 6 and 8 year old grandkids playing in the backyard occaisionally. The wolf-mix looks down on all activity in our yard, and with it coming outside of the porch/deck railing resting it's front feet on the gutter as it gauged if it could hop down the lower door awning leaving 7' to the ground, I'm just a wee bit concerned. Am also a slightly bit concerned what the owner will do once she returns to find the calling card from the officer asking her to call him (the officer said as long as no law was actually broken that there was nothing he could do). Am also wondering how the owner of the wolf-dog will react to the new english-as-a-second-language duplex owner telling her he has to now add an additional board to her deck to help contain the wolf-mix and informing her also that the wolf is not to be left on the deck while she is not at home. I know a little about wolves, and I also know that that second story deck is not enough to confine it should it decide to come down for a snack, and I additionally know that our 4' gate into our yard will not really slow it down either. The officer said it was illegal to discharge a firearm in the city where we live, but said doing so would be judged on a case by case basis should the need arise to do so. Just looking for valid level headed verifiable leads and input to defend the use of our yard and to help control the possible negative reaction of the neighbor to my objections of her wolf posturing and positioning to leap from the balcony deck into our back yard. I've found a few things in a quick search to justify my concern to some extent, just looking for more data to print and foreward to the responding officer and also to hand over to the careless mostly absentee wolfdog owner. Thanks. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Mike, I'd check with animal control to see what the regulations are. OR You could move to Newfoundland where we have no wolves!!!!and I'd have a riding buddy. They were killed off in the 1850s and the breed we had was the Newfoundland Wolf which apparently was about 25-40% bigger than the wolves found in North America. | ||
| Wolfpak765 |
I'd check with www.wolfpak.org for more info regarding wolves and hybrids. They have a specialized section of their site devoted to them and can answer questions via either email or the phone by persons highly educated on the subject. http://www.wolfpark.org/wolfdogs/index.html | ||
| Mikej |
Thanks Newfie, but moving is out of the question for now. But maybe I'll suggest that to the neighbor.  There are no regulation on keeping a wolfdog as long as it's licensed and "domesticated". Scott, Thanks for the link. That's one I found this morning (if "wolfpak" is supposed to be "wolfpark" )and have 3 copies of the the section you noted already printed out, one for us, one for the police, and one for the owner should she take offense to my concerns. She is no where close to being within the guidelines that the WolfPark link recommends. I may contact them and see if they have anyone local who might be able to look over the situation and maybe talk to the owner of the "pet". Thanks. | ||
| Whatever |
Mike, My boyfriend has a wolf who is 98% wolf. The dog thinks it is a lap dog and weighs close to 80 pounds at 6 months old. She is a total sweetheart. I, however, remain skeptical about how she will turn out. She tried to eat the birds in the house. She eats any kind of food... from doughnuts to squashes and cucumbers... she even ate a shirt the other day. Bob thinks she is fine, being a third generation domesticated animal. But, personally I would not leave her alone with anything small and vulnerable, just to be safe. Char | ||
| Wolfpak765 |
Yeah, from what you stated it sounds like the owner is pretty irresponsible and you have real cause for your concern. (I know I would be if I was in your position) Their is a link for a hybrid rescue center on the wolfpark site. You may have already found it too but, here it is http://www.wolfpark.org/Links_rescue.html to make finding it easy if you havent. Might be something that the police or you should contact. Animal control maybe able to move him with their help before something bad happens  Usually animal rescue places are really good at getting the police to act at removing an animal from a situation where it could be a problem to others as well as one where it is being abused. Yeah, it was supposed to be wolfpark. My brain isnt working right yet and I guess I tryed to type out my nick..DOH! I hope you get everything worked out! | ||
| Jim_m |
The best description I've ever heard of wolf hybrids is that they were just like cats (ie predatory natures, very independant). My buddy has a neighbor that had one, and they had no problems. Not saying that this would be the case in your situation, but it's a thought. | ||
| Cjmblast |
Just wondering how concerned I should be with it up there looking down on our back yard, and wondering if I should also be concerned with the Mrs's 6 and 8 year old grandkids playing in the backyard occaisionally. Yeah, I'd be VERY concerned !!!! Take no chances with the grandkids !! CJ | ||
| Daves |
Have you tried to make friends with the dog? That's what I'd try first. Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| Mikej |
The owner is rarely home. What I'm reading so far about the wolf and wolfdogs is that they are very one-owner animals, if the owner isn't there then all bets are off if you are not a very experienced handler of them. Wolves can not be read like a dog's behaviour. I am mostly concerned with the predatory instinct in it as several of the incident reports state a child that was attacked simply fell and cried. Kids do that all the time. Puppys do it moreso. Another site states a full wolf can clear an 8' fence or better, so jumping down off an 8' deck is no problem. I'll be going down to the local P.D. tonight when I get home and taking along a few publications. If the owner seemed more responsible then I'd have a whole lot less concern. Am trying to find a wolf-sympathetic expert to come look at the situation. It's easy to find the other variety. | ||
| Bads1 |
Mike I have friend that has one.Like char's friend's 98% wolf and it is very independent.It pace's the yard and doesn't let his eye off you for a minute,but it won't attack people it is just like what it is a WOLF and it is just as scared of you as you are of him.As far as small animals keep them away they could become pray.My buddy's cannot be trusted around small animals and even large male dog's because that is a dominate traight of a pack animal.My friend doe's have childeren but doesn't leave them unattended ever.Try to contact your neighbor with your concerns and find out if the wolf/dog is registered with the city as being licenced and up to date on all shot's. | ||
| Mikej |
Thanks Dana, We share a fence with the wolf's deck less than 6' away from the top of the 5' fence between it and our yard. Absolutely impossible to keep it away short of extending the fence between us higher, which will become the next legal step with the new building owner should the wolf owner prove to be uncooperative. The wolfdogs tend to loose their "natural fear" of man, and the wolfdog's partial confinement and lack of owner interraction (from what I'm reading) raises major danger signals. I'll be in contact with the city's licensing department on Friday when I go down to check on licensing our pups. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Mike, Don't want your neighbor but in general Wolves are beautiful, intelligent creatures that deserve respect just as any type of animal. Take Dave's advice and throw it a hunk of red meat every now and then - the dog will love ya. Personally I don't think any wild animal should be domesticated and let free. Charlotte, That must be one hell of an animal to have around. Got any pics. edited by Newfie_Buell on September 08, 2003 | ||
| Mikej |
Agreed to a point, but when they start to get crossbred and carelessly kept is when problems begin. This one is in my opinion being carelessly kept in a city neighborhood with 75'wide lots. That makes it a whole different game. And it isn't a dog, it's a wolf or wolf crossbreed, that also is a whole different animal. Might be the same general category of animal but a whole different behaviour mindset and requires a whole different set of parameters of involvement. Throwing it a chunk of meat will do little to endear me to it, it will just think I didn't want the meat and will go back to considering me a challenger to it's domain. That too will change. But, yep, in the wild, unmolested by amateur breeders, left to their natural ways, wolves can be beautiful animals. Dances with Wolves was a nice movie, my current situation is no movie however. Oh well, got work to do. I am a little curious though, seems like Newfoundland would be a great area to transplant some native wolf packs to restablish the population some. Wonder what would happen if some biologist or legislator suggested it. | ||
| Ezblast |
Have you ever seen a Newfie dog - lol - I'd bet thats part of why there are no wolves left - just like the reason there are no more wolves left in the British Isles - the Irish & Scotish wolfhounds took care of them (and any other game the hunter pointed at - what dog do you think went head to head with Lions at the Roman Games - but the Giant Irish wolf hounds (a dog even bigger than todays representation of the breed) - they were so big all the hunter did was bring a short bow for the mercy kill (if it was even nescessary) and a skinning knife - the dog did all the rest. Seeing that Newfie's are the 4th. largest dogs in the world, and at that time no one liked wolves, and the fact that a Newfie dog would still make two Newfie wolves - thats probably why the wolves are history there - lol - GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Dynarider |
Take no chances with the grandkids. Downn deep that animal is still a wolf with the killer instincts of a wolf. Its easier to take proactive steps to eliminate a very real threat than it is to pay for hospital bills or worse. Nice bowl of antifreeze for the thirsty wolf would work wonders & its quieter than a 12 gauge going off. Now Im sure all the animal rights activists will go nutz on me for saying that. But I tell you what, if it was my grandson who was possible prey for a wolf who can easily jump off an 8' deck.....that animal would be either missing or dead one morning. Look how many children or even adults for that matter are either mauled or killed every year by large dogs. Usually its a matter of the owners not doing what they should to properly secure or restrain the animal & it sounds like this is indeed the case here. | ||
| Mikej |
Found a local story from May about gray wolf sightings in the area, am going to work that angle with the DNR people if necessary. As far as the dirty deeds game goes, that's fine if there's little potential for turnabout but not in this case. Will be staying above board publically with this one. | ||
| Bads1 |
Hey Ezblast you better look up your HISTORY a bit better.The dog that went head to head with lion's was not a Irish Wolfhound it was a Old English Mastiff.The heaviest and most powerful of the giant dog breed's.And I'm a proud owner of one and soon two this winter. THINK BIG} | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Ez, My neighbor had a Newfoundland Dog and there was a picket fence separating our gardens. We had two dogs and the Newf always wanted to hang out with our dogs. I used to find broken fence pickets like someone kicked them in the middle and snapped them in two. I got sick of replacing these pickets so one day I was looking out the window and noticed the Newf back up from the fence about 20 feet or so then run at it full speed, just before he was at the fence he would drop his head and snap the picket in two like snapping a toothpick. He would have to take out two of them next to each other in order to pass through the fence. When I realized what he was doing I removed two pickets all together and no others ever got broken. This dog weighed in at almost 180lbs and was a gentle giant. The kids on the street could walk on it, pull its ears, etc, etc and the worst the dog would do is lick them. Newfoundland Dogs are probably the most beautiful dogs there are. | ||
| Dynarider |
Mike...ps, a .22 rifle can be made very quiet with a 2 liter soda bottle. Damn accurate too. | ||
| Ezblast |
Yuppers they are 5th or 6th in size in the world today - I did research my history - mastiffs were well used in Boar and Bear hunting - However, the Wolfhounds were the King back then - todays are but a very pale imatation - sadly though bred back for size, etc. - todays Irish Wolfhound would be nothing back then - too thin and small for the job they did - most people can't even imagine a dog taller than themselves, or with a chest as wide - through historical burrials that have been unearthed show a dog with those capacities and more - check your Roman history and you will see that the dogs were giants in height and had long coats - though Mastiffs were extensively used by the Romans as guard dogs and in the games in pack situations - once discovered as a breed. Congradulations! They are one of the most loyal and intellegent breeds out there. I've owned a Great Dane, 2 Pugs, 3 Boxers, 1 Shelti, 2 Irish Setters, and a Mini-Pin - lol - This is what happens when your ex's parrents owned a giant Kennel in Sac (Vikhala by the Winnens - they have since sold it - 5 acres off Florin Rd. - and retired) and where founders of the Local AKC - GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Jon |
Wolves and half breeds are not the same as dogs. They tend to always compete with the alpha for the lead, man or beast. Don't throw it meat. Get the landlord owner to make the tenant lose it. I have a bull mastiff shepherd mix. Wonderful dog. Very protective, but smart and doesn't over-react. Loves kids and east the oranges off of our tree. Maybe that's why he has a brindle coat. | ||
| Kevyn |
'Tis a shame that a great animal like the 'wolf' is brought from it's natural preserve to have to dwell in an apartment and deal with the likes of men with guns and poisins...make friends with it and teach your children how it came to be and what it was before. Perhaps one day it will repay your kindness. | ||
| Darthane |
...and then it will eat your puppies. | ||
| Kevyn |
...just the males | ||
| Mikej |
Dana, If things escalate I may have to invite you and your critters up for a bar-b-que and fence/territory marking day. Dyna, The soda bottle trick would put one in the realm of the BATF, and having met and indirectly known some of them I prefer to stay either on their friendly or at least neutral side. And as the local officer said, until some law is broken there is nothing that can be done. Well, I'm on the education campaign at the moment, learning what I can and finding out how to handle and not handle a wolfdog. If the wolfdog owner's position is sound then I'll learn, if not then she and the neighborhood and city will learn. Jon, I had a little discussion last night with the wolfdog owner, lost cause. She did slip up on a few things though. First she told me the wolfdog's age. Then she mentioned the name of someone associated with the Dept. of Natural Resources Wolf program that she said has met her female wolfdog. But when I asked her to repeat the DNR person's name so that I could talk with a wolf expert who knows her wolfdog so that I could put my concerns to rest she absolutely refused to give me his name again and instead offered to have me speak with other neighbors. The neighbor on the corner whom she visits was defending her and the wolfdog, but when I asked him why she doesn't give me the DNR name he back pedaled. And when I pointed out that the wolfdog's behaviour is one thing when the owner is present and might be different if the owner isn't present he back pedaled further. The Milw.Journal article from May includes the name of a DNR person associated with the Wisc wolf program. The duplex owner is stuck as he just last month re-signed a lease with her for another year when he took ownership of the building. The owner has offered to add another board to the deck so that the wolfdog will have to go over instead of through the railing. The wolfdog owner admitted to knowing that the wolfdog "almost hangs by it's tail" from the railing boards. I do not care if she owns a wolfdog, I would not even care if she owned a purebred wolf, as long as she properly confines and controls it. This is not the case currently. Oh well, back to work and further research. pps, Mastiffs and Newfoundlands are great dogs, so are Great Pyrannees (sp?) and some of the other "giant" dogs. If anything happens to one of our English Springer Spaniels then the replacement will be supersized. | ||
| Mikej |
Kevyn, The wolfdog is a female, both our pups are males and are quite energetic. I have no problem will pure wolves in their natural environment. I do have a problem with wolfdogs in an urban environment that are not properly controlled nor confined. The wolfdog owner asked me if I was afraid her wolf would eat our puppies, I replied I was concerned about the predator/prey instinct in her wolfdog. She changed the subject back to other neighbors and their puppies her wolfdog has played with while she was present. Lost cause. | ||
| Whatever |
Newfie, Yeah, Harley is a one of a kind animal... she has one blue eye, one brown eye and is white with some redish-brown markings. I am going to see if Bob has any digital pictures of her... if not we will take some. Hell, I like her as much or more than him.... hee hee hee... good thing I can't get him to read this board.  Char | ||
| V2win |
When I was a kid, my dad brought home a hybrid from up north. He got him from an owner who had become concerned about his kids saftey. I was about 10 yrs old at the time. "Taka" became my fathers dog. He would play with me and we would roll around the ground together, but when dad walked away, off he went. In his eys, dad was the pack leader, and everyone else was just part of the pack. I saw him kill a deer once. I have a picture of him and me somewhere. If I can find it, I will post it. | ||
| Wolfpak765 |
The problem with wolves and children is that wolves usually see any animal smaller than themselves as food. This is not the case with all wolves however. Some see human children as basically human pups and treat the same way they treat other humans. Still, if your neighbor isnt going to do anything to prevent the animal from becoming a danger to itself and others I'd start with a rescue shelter (even if you cant locate one in your area, they network and can put you in touch.) They will know who to contact to have the wolf/dog removed quickly without resorting to actions which could get you sued. If it comes into your yard after your kids, your wife, your pets, or even yourself before something can be done however, I'd suggest using Dyna's method without a second thought. |
