| Author | Message | ||
     Fujkami78 |
Sales? Reliability? More mass centralization in the new frame? Anything "wrong" with them or just engineers being innovative with the new frame? | ||
| Thumper74 |
Trellis frame designs are still going strong with Suzuki and Ducatti. My guess is that they just moved on to better things. Just think about all the ideas in Erik's brain... | ||
| Xl1200r |
It's kind of like asking why Chevy stopped building the C4 Corvette and started building the C5. The XB is a pretty big leap in engineering, reliability, performance, etc. The XB is crude is comparison to many other bikes, but Tubers are even crude compared to the XB. Not that the Tubers don't have a certain mystique about them, but they're obsolete in the current market. | ||
| Mikej |
Evolution of design. " but they're obsolete in the current market." I don't agree. Just because "most" go in a certain direction doesn't make the "old" system obsolete. Ducati seems to be doing fine with tube frame bikes, based upon my limited observations. But then I like carb'd bikes as well. (cue up The Twilight Zone soundtrack) Maybe I'm just obsolete  | ||
| Jaimec |
It does seem as though just as they got all of the quality bugs shaken out, they were dropped. I really LOVED my Cyclone, but I sure hated all the time it spent in the shop. | ||
| Leftcoastal |
Tube frame Buells haven't disappeared! They've just shrunk in resale value to where they are difficult to see with the naked eye. AL Tuber owner | ||
| Jayvee |
If their sales quantity had made them economically viable to maintain two complete "assembly lines", I bet they would have done it. Otherwise, just too much hassle/expense/whatever to keep two of such different processes going on. It wasn't just the frames that changed, but lots of parts that go along. It would double the inventory of parts you know. Look at the used tuber prices, they ain't collector's items yet. Cult bike means not many people appreciate them, but the few that do, dig the hell out of them. Company can't survive on cult bikes. (Message edited by jayvee on April 07, 2008) | ||
| Slaughter |
You need to tour the Buell facility to see just how small it actually is. I'd ask WHERE would they have built them? or... WHICH of their current product like would you eliminate to continue production of the tubers? Folks don't realize how SMALL Buell really is. Barely 100 folks from the entry level up to Erik himself. (though they may have expanded some - I bet it hasn't been much) (Don't get me wrong, I doubt that I'll ever sell my S3) | ||
| Mtch |
its similar to the dinosaurs disappearing............ called evolution | ||
| Ducxl |
Evolution....Technology only moves forward. I've plenty of criticizm....But proudly keep one of each(tuber/XBr) HeHe...actually i've got two tubers | ||
| Torquemonster |
they didnt disappear...theyre being hoarded. Respectfully, Cult of the Spud | ||
| Jlnance |
I'll disclaim this post by acknowledging that I don't know what goes on in Erik Buell's mind. But I've hung around long enough that I'll at least speculate. The man could certainly have picked an easier road. He could have built choppers like OCC or done something like Big Dog. He could have built high end collector bikes. All of those would have been easier than what he did. Instead, he tried to design bikes which were better than the rest. Thats a tough job, both because his bikes certainly can't be the best at everything, and because most people don't really care anyway. But a Buell has the exhaust under the engine because that's where Erik believes the best place for it is. And you're supposed to buy the bike because you realize that hey yea, that really is the best place for the exhaust. And yes, that idler pulley thing is really a fantastic idea. Lots of people look at Buells and they see a quirky bike and are put off that they don't look like other bikes. They aren't impressed with exhaust placement. They want more chrome or faster quarter mile times, or at least a thing of classic beauty. Erik isn't going to give them that, it just isn't what he wants to do. Now, one thing that is apparent, is that Buell, both the company and the man, think the XB and IRC chassis are the best in the world. They are extraordinarily proud of what they accomplished designing those bikes. Now, you may personally find the tube frames more appealing. But you're not going to see Buell build you one. You might as well ask for a bike with elptical wheels. You're not going to get an elliptical wheeled bike because round wheels work better. If you got 100 people together and asked for elliptical wheels and promised to buy them, Buell still wouldn't make you an elliptical wheeled bike. They have a vision of what they want the company to be, and that just doesn't fit, even if it could turn a profit. | ||
| Teddagreek |
Ducati just redid monsters frame after 8 years, I think? Not all the new monsters have the new frame either for 2008, just the new 696 | ||
| Glitch |
I'd love to own an S1. I think they stopped manufacture because they didn't have the room to produce that many bikes. The XB line has so many interchangeable parts, that makes what they offer easier. Maybe one day they'll build a few S1s or the like with the new engine. That would rock! | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
My "local" Buell dealer, Eastern Harley Davidson of Riverhead, on Long Island, has about a half a dozen brand new tubers. He used to list them on his web site, but he doesn't seem to do that any more. Any way, If I remember correctly, (sort of a long shot in the best of conditions), he had one or two X-1's , an M2, and a couple of S's, don't remember which ones. He said he might sell them for under list. | ||
| Ducxl |
Jon,it's funny,my local dealer has at LEAST a couple brand new X1 models too.An '02 X1w and an '00 Red stripe. | ||
| Drummer |
I'm a newby...not to riding, but to Buells. If I were to ride a well sorted out Tuber and then an XB...is the difference that noticeable? Is the difference incrementally different or is does the XB really take it to another level? That said...I sure do like the looks of the Tubers. | ||
| Beachbuell |
X1, XB12R, P3, M2.......... I've owned and I've loved them all. I think my M2 Cyclone suits me best though. Damn I love that bike and Buells in general! | ||
| Bcdaum |
My S-1W has not disappeared...it is still in the garage where I last left it. Bob | ||
| Igneroid |
its similar to the dinosaurs disappearing............ called evolution Are the dinosaurs dissappearing?? Damn. I thought they were just staying away from town.... | ||
| Grancuda |
Why did Tube framed Buells disappear? Not sure, the tube frame Ducati Monster never disappeared, actually since the tube frame Buells were discontiued, the Monsters have sold like hotcakes. I think that Buell should have improved the Tube frame models and made the new bikes also. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Maybe they'll put them back out in the future, but as has been stated. The Buell factory isn't huge. | ||
| Davegess |
The whole story is in the book. The short version the tube bikes were designed for limited production and really limited where Buell could go in many ways; cost, quality, performance. | ||
| Mbsween |
Damn Dave, Don't spoil the ending  of the tubers anyway, when do i get that book? | ||
| Bad_karma |
After spending a few years here, I don't see the XB's being that much more reliable than a tuber. I doubt if there are many that can ride a tuber or XB to their limits in the real world. For me the XB frame is a great execution in design as long as you don't do your own maintenance. To have to rotate the motor to remove the header is unacceptable to me. To have to remove bodywork to check/change plugs once again not making the bike better. I'm sure that XB's are great bikes and I'm tempted to get an 08 XBR until I remember that bikes as much as 10 years newer than my tubers still don't handle as well, require more maintenance and are far less maintenance friendly. I respect Buell for what they accomplished. I'm from an older generation and motorcycling is something more than just turning the key, riding than parking. Enjoy your bikes. Joe | ||
| Joesbuell |
I'm with you Joe, Tubers are in my opinion no less reliable than an XB! But when you need to work on your tuber everything is easy to get at. In my opinion Buell should have stuck with the Tube frame, It works for Ducati.... Another thing you don't write your frame off if the bike falls over either | ||
| Glitch |
Y'all obviously don't own an XB. In the well over 60K miles I have on mine the only issue has been a burt stator X2. But, I've been told it was because I used Mobil1 Gear oil. I've over 25K miles on the newest stator using Formula+ and no issues, I've not had to write off my bike, and not only has it fallen over (on a trailer) I've also been down, on both sides. Pucks and sliders are cheap insurance. I've always done my own maintenance, and it's no more difficult than my Bandit was. Rotating the engine to take the header off is no big deal, it only sounds like it would be. I've heard nightmares about changing isolators on the Tubers though. As with a lot of thing mechanical, having the right tools helps out a big deal. We're not talking special tools, just the right ones. I appreciate the love for Tubers, not dissing them at all. It's just obvious y'all have listened to the whiners. I guess that's the way it would have to be since whiners are more prevalent than the ones that find bikes a pleasure to work on. I'm sure that XB's are great bikes and I'm tempted to get an 08 XBR until I remember that bikes as much as 10 years newer than my tubers still don't handle as well, require more maintenance and are far less maintenance friendly. To quote Court: That is an inaccurate statement. Who says they don't handle as well? More maintenance? Where are you getting your information? | ||
| Court |
The same reason that you'll note find a James Olson on the sale rack at Guitar Center. The tube frames were an exquisite piece of engineering that allowed a kid in a barn to nip the heels of the world's finest. Nipping is great, it doesn't feed 6 kids. Before, long before, nerds coined the term "scalability" folks at Buell were dreaming of a design that allowed quality, fit and finish to be "designed in" rather than "built in". The tube frames required a bit of art to assemble. When TA and DL were doing each one consistency was dependent on no one having snowmobile accident. As numbers increased (you'll read in the book that the "HD plan for Buell" was on the order of 300 bikes a year and they sold several times that the first year) it was apparent that a design that brought world class engineering in a package that reduced to a minumim number the assembly variables was needed. Stop for a minuted and go to the garage. . . . look at the gaps between the heel guard and the frame. Look at the various pieces and note the how gaps look neat, clean and engineered. Look closely at the bike and you'll see that that variables have been largely moved from assembly to the vendor arena. Increased and focused efforts are underway to conquer and master that next. The tube frames are akin to the Porsche 356 and the early Shelby Mustangs. They were never intended to be build at the rate of 10,000 a year. The current line of Buell are extraordinarily engineered and built motorcycles. The current Buell company, now in the next phase of it's growth, is an extraordinary company. You've chosen wisely. Court | ||
| Ceejay |
I've got both, took me 4 yrs. and a tool box to get 15,000(~20000 total as I bought it used) on my tuber. I've had the XB for about 9 months now, I've put 6,000(10,000 total as I bought it used) and I haven't had to do a thing other than the things I've wanted to do, which is how it should be. I still have the roller for my tube frame-and in all honesty, I'll probably have it until it gets destroyed. Someday I'll put it back together, putt on down to the beer joint, and let the yokels oggle at it, but if I want to go thrash on something, ride to work, or putt around the countryside I know which one I'm picking... | ||
| Greenlantern |
Elves. |
