| Author | Message | ||
     P_squared |
Interested in hearing other folks opinions/observations/experiences in regards to home defense. Re: Dissuading a burglar, home invasion, etc. My Personal "philosophies" at a high level: 1) Get a dog that will BARK (aka intrusion alarm). 2) Use a shotgun (mine is a Mossberg 500 that holds 8 (7+1), has a folding stock, 18 & change inch barrel, etc.) It's a "point & shoot weapon". I know MY abilities w/ a 1911, but I can't trust the rest of my family to put rounds on target in a high stress situation, ergo "point & shoot w/ RELIABILITY." 3) Keep a cell phone & flashlight by the bed (in case of downed/cut phonelines and/or power outages) 4) Pay for a Security monitoring service (Notice this is #4...this is a LAST LINE of defense, NOT a first line.) 5) In a multi-level structure, attempt to place your entire family upstairs, that way you have enough time to gather them after the door has been "kicked in" and you have the advantage of calling for assistance (cell by your bed) and making it difficult (if not impossible) for them to endanger your family without getting through you first. Okay, that's the basics, but don't forget that you HAVE to recover & protect the 3 Buells in the garage! If you have a background/insight/personal experiences, please share it w/ the rest of the BadWeb community in an effort to "share the wealth". | ||
| Diablobrian |
Nothing you own is worth your life. Nothing. You are always better off holing up in a safe room with your family keeping them safe than you are seeking a confrontation. Arrange a "safe room" for your family that can be secured to keep them from becoming accident statistics. A cell phone and flashlight should be kept there at all times. Keep all weapons secured with locks only those that know how to use them should have access. Shotguns with bird shot make good interior defense weapons because the column of lead stays together enough for serious thump, while still breaking up before penetrating walls. Shotguns also work well for psychological reasons. No one in their right mind tries to face down a shotgun. The sound of the slide racking stops hard men cold in their tracks. A tactical light either hand held (pistol) or mounted on a long defense weapon is a must. Never ever shoot what you cannot positively identify. Too many innocent family members have been shot by scared people in the dark. I'm sure that there is a lot of stuff I'm not thinking of right now too... | ||
| P_squared |
I like it....thought provoking. The "safe room" is the master bedroom closet. Since we're all on the same floor, kids are all under 12, etc, etc, the current plan works pretty good for me. I do not advocate engaging, but at the same time, the wife & 2 daughters WILL be in the safe room while I "hold down the fort." Ergo for me, that means sitting @ the top of the stairs with the 12 ga. and 1911, while the rest of the family is holed up. As for the positive target ID before engaging, that's a "given" for myself in that I've been trained to ALWAYS ID my target before squeezing. Forgot some folks don't have that explained to them on a regular basis. As for the tactical lights, I see them as a double edged sword in the home defense realm. ID the target vs. expose your position? I currently have the luxury of having 100% accountability for my family, but I'm sure that will change in ~10 yrs. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I don't advocate using a tactical light as a constantly on light source. It should be employed with a momentary switch so that it works to both identify your target and disorient them rather than pointing the way to your position. Sorry I should have clarified there. A 1-3 watt LED or xenon flashlight will do wonders indoors in the dark for this purpose. Current LED technology is especially effective because of the frequency of the light. Projected laser dots are almost useless in real defense situations. If it is dark enough to pick the dot up quickly then it is too dark to positively identify the target. Besides which any weapon that you are using for defense should be so familiar to you that you do not need the dot to know where the shot is going. (back to the whole muscle memory thing) I like the Bathroom for a safe room because my daughters can be placed in the bathtub for maximum protection from stray bullets. A solid core door with a good lock is a good idea on the safe room too. (Message edited by diablobrian on November 08, 2007) | ||
| P_squared |
COOL! Still not sold on the light in a 2+ story dwelling w/ an open floor plan. I've "played" a LOT with tac lights. IMHO, they have their place in dynamic entries & such. Lasers are a waste of $$$ (Unless you plan on buying "non-visible" and NVGs, but then we're talking a 'lil bit of "overkill.") But when lighting up the ground flr from the 2nd flr, even if the assailant is "disoriented" they sill have a general gist of your position on the battlefield. It's one of those "situational awareness" kind of scenarios, where there aren't (or shouldn't be IMHO) hard & fast rules. The only RULE is make sure you are 100% positive of the target before engaging it. As for determining the point of engagement, it's also determined by floor plan IMO. For me, it's @ the top of the stairs, because it's a choke point that I can easily control. Having flashbacks to doing walk throughs of "taped" bldgs. on a hangar deck! lol | ||
| Mm128 |
I kinda like confrontation... I figure if you come into my house at 2am thinking your going to rob, kill, or harrass me..... then you leave in a BODY BAG. I keep a Suppressed .40 cal Glock and a suppressed AR 15 loaded with Soft point ammo next to my side of the bed. Wife has her duty .45 acp next to her and our daughter is NO stranger to weapons. She has access to a shorty 12 ga. I say... you get whats coming IF you make it past the security system and the 2 dogs. I just HATE the idea that I will have to REPAINT and spackle walls after the FIRE FIGHT. but... hey.. thats just me.. I work too damn hard to be a VICTIM. -Matt (LEO SOUTH GA.) | ||
| P_squared |
Matt, U r 2 F!@#$ funny! My initial "concept" for this thread was more for those who were "squeamish" around firearms/confrontation and overall "good ideas" to help them defend/keep safe. I've noticed on the BadWeb & Buell owners in general are typically, "older, talk slower, and shoot STRAIGHT" so was trying to give some "free insight" to those who may not have the luxury of our per se "experience." | ||
| Andrejs2112 |
IMO. If you live in a place where you need to worry about stuff like that...MOVE. | ||
| P_squared |
Andreys2112...it doesn't matter WHERE you live, that's the point. My town is rated #1 by the FBI multiple yrs in a row as "safest in the USA". The point is that you NEVER know what whacko/crackhead/high school sicko/postal employee is gonna SNAP and put YOUR family in danger. If that happens, what do you do? Can't move when you have a gun pointed at your head. "I'm not paranoid, I'm just overly cautious." | ||
| Blackbelt |
Michigan was a fun/interesting state a year or so ago when it came to Self Defense. LEO officers chime in if I make any boo boos in details. Basically there was a "retreat" Clause in the law, stating that even in your own home, if you had an avenue of retreat you MUST take it no matter what. That is why so many lawsuits accured from the burglar/robbers who entered a home and were confronted. The Homeowner LOST 95% of the time too in the legal battle. NOT now however, Michigan has the "Castle" clause. Which from the Self Defense side of things is rather interesting. Defend your home/Family as necessary. So my Mossberg 12 Gauge Marine Pump, AK-47, Ruger P-90, and my wifes Double barrel 20 Gauge (w/ bird shot) are ready. Our master b-room already has solid core door w/ lock, and a phone and escape ladder if necessary. If I should run out of bullets I do have good knowledge of edged weapons weither it knife/sword. That is one thing that our governor did in the past years that I do agree w/. ok that be that... | ||
| Spiderman |
Just sleep naked. No one wants to fight naked man. | ||
| Blackbelt |
there is a vision of scaryness for all to witness... EEW | ||
| P_squared |
The unasked question with sleeping naked: Which will blind them first? The Tac light or my white butt? Thanks for the laughs guys! | ||
| Djkaplan |
Wear earplugs before gunplay in the house. Make sure you have enough for everybody. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Amazing what Army training with weapons can teach you... | ||
| Court |
>>>>Wear earplugs before gunplay in the house. Ever fired a gun from a moving car? Right up there with sitting in front of the speaker at Woodstock. | ||
| Sath |
I recon to each his own. About the lighting you can get night lights that come on with movement. Low light source but it will outline or shadow a person. I've never locked up any defense weapons. I've trained my kids and wife safe handling. If you want to give someone a chance to retreat, use a bird bomb. There like a M 80 shot from a starters gun. If that boom dosen't turn someone, the shotgun will. Personally I like 00 or 000 buckshot. Also when getting the CC permit the instructor said many times, YOU WERE AFRAID FOR YOUR AND LOVE ONES LIVES!!!! | ||
| Ratyson |
My home defence weapon of choice is my 12 gauge shotgun. Loaded with buck shot. I am also in the same group as Mm128... If you are forcefully entering my home, I really don't care what your intent is, you are going to be shot. There is one problem with our floorplan that I don't like. The master bedroom is on one side of the house, the 2 smaller rooms are on the other side. Which means that in order to get to my daughter's room, I would have to move across the path of any likely intruder. Our bedroom door is only feet away from the front entry, and in line's site and about 20 feet away from the rear entrance. We do have a monitored alarm system that is EXTREMELY loud when set off. Any exterior door/window will set the alarm off and signal the monitorin station. Also, cutting power or a comm line will also trigger the alarm (not fun when the power goes out.. but it does make for an effective fail-safe). There is a local battery that will run the siren for a few minutes. We have homeowner friendly laws when it comes to protection here in Alabama. Basically, I just have to FEEL threatened, then I can shoot the intruder. | ||
| Mikej |
There have been some recent reports of false 911 calls somehow showing an aliased address, that forced entry could be the good guys. Identify first. | ||
| Ratyson |
There have also been instances where the intruders were dressed similar to LEOs, but were in fact there to do dubious deeds. That makes the intrusion/entry all the more scarier for LEOs and homeowners alike. | ||
| Loki |
There was an article in a gun mag last year. The writer had interviewed over time, a lot of prison bound individuals. Asked them what was their worst fear when entering someones elses home. The almost unamimous answer was that of a shotgun being racked. Knowing that the person holding it is a serious threat. | ||
| Mikej |
So maybe instead of an alarm one should rig up their security system to trigger the sound of a shotgun racking a round, then another one, then little beady red eyes could start turning on in the room and the theme from Jaws can start playing low with the bass set on high.... rack rack blink blink do do do do | ||
| Bill0351 |
I kind of like the idea Ratyson had about the shotgun. It would make a horrible mess, but not overpenetrate and put a hole an innocent bystander. I wonder what the laws are about the less-than-lethal rounds. We used them in Iraq for crowd control and they peel hijackers off transport trucks like nothing you have ever seen. That, and you might be a lot more likely to blast an intruder if you didn't think the likely result would be a manslaughter charge. If you didn't think that was enough, you could just put one or two less-than rounds in the tube followed by a few goose loads. You could level a .50 cal or an M4 at am Iraqi and they would mainly ignore you because they knew the rules of engagement just as well as you did. Rack a round into the chamber of a pump-gun and they would scatter faster than you would believe. They knew we would use them without thinking twice. Another plus of a less-than round, is any sort of accidental discharge would probably not be fatal to your kids or the family dog. Now that I think about it, I should set a gun up like that in the closet of my bedroom and tell the kids that in an emergency, that is where the family should meet. | ||
| Tq_freak |
This is what I was looking at for the "just in case" situation. http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28 &display=feat It looks like a pretty nice piece. With no stock I don't think it will be very effective for anything other then home protection. | ||
| Tattoodnscrewd |
I actually have my weapons hung as decoration in my bedroom ... Years studying Kung Fu .... I have a staff in the corner, 9 section whip chain hanging within the closet door, and 2 swords mounted above my closet ... (I like quiet weapons, and it will be hard for someone to do anything to me or my family if they don't have an arm ... or head for that matter ... my swords aren't for sticking - they're for slicing... and a staff used properly can stun/knock out an intruder as quick or quicker than the time it takes them to point and shoot - less mess that way too) Studying Kung Fu has also taught me to improvise and to be able to make a weapon out of whatever is available ... But they have to get past 4 dogs ... I don't care how ballsy an intruder is .. unlikely they will come in when multiple dogs are barking .. never have just one dog for defense .... | ||
| Djkaplan |
How you gonna bust a perp in the face with no stock? If you just shoot first, you'll miss your chance to hover over the guy and say, "Make my day punk". | ||
| Cityxslicker |
The mossberg is a nice weapon, it is my first choice up in the bedroom. but there is another one that I really love that I picked up from a Y2K yuppy sale. A.W.O.T.S. small based "shot gun" one in the pipe, five in the pump, not "sawed off" as it was never a full receiver, barrel or stock. Still get the rack a round sound and feel  Was legal when I got it, doubt it is now. | ||
| Diablobrian |
The best shotgun I ever owned for defense was my remington 1187 special purpose. After I fitted the 18 1/2" barrel with ghost rings and extended the mag tube it was about as close to perfect for an entry/defense shotgun as I have seen. I hated selling it, but I ran into serious cash trouble in late 2003 in the wake of my accident. Most of my firearms had to go, except the bare essentials. Another very good defense gun is the m1 carbine. The 30 carbine round is very similar to the 357magnum round in performance, but packaged in a light rifle anyone can shoot it all day where a pistol can cause the less experienced to flinch and miss. Magsafe ammo in the little M1 is a great package that won't over-penetrate. I even had a Ruger blackhawk in 30carbine once. The muzzle flash and report on that thing was worse than my 41 mag loaded with heavy loads. | ||
| Aesquire |
Lights & lasers... I recently bought a Lasermax light/laser combo. ( for Rem. 870/1187/1100 & Benelli 1014 ) they make other models. The light is a fairly bright light, that allows good identification. Not a stunning light, but bright. The laser pulses to be more obvious, and is. I can't see it on a 100 yard target in bright daylight, but can at 50 yards. It makes cloverleaf holes ( at 50 ) with a 1/2 dozen Rem. Buckhammers, So I'd rate it a solid 9. The problem with a weapon mounted light, is you are pointing a weapon at what you are looking at. I'd suggest training for safety & effectiveness. ( never a bad idea ) If you don't have the basics down, ( front sight, press ) gadgets won't help. Trigger control, ethical considerations, and ABSOLUTE certainty of the target are the same with an MP-5 with IR tv camera feeding a heads up display as you look around corners, or a baseball bat. That said. If you can't use the iron sights, because of darkness or bad positioning, a laser is your best buddy. I'm thinking like on your back shooting "up" overhead, with the gun upside down. ( knocked on your butt, being beaten & kicked, or just tripped ) Hard with regular sights. Sometimes the red dot on the chest will end the argument without the real loud noises being needed. You can always hope. | ||
| Jayvee |
This is great, my other forums, 1911forum and The High Road are blocked from work. Finally get to talk about guns again! I have the Mossberg 500 with the 6-round magazine attachment, among other improvements. I can reload with six more rounds in about 2.5 seconds. |
