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Archive through February 27, 2007Xbrad9r30 02-27-07  09:07 am
         

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Xbrad9r
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 09:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks everyone for your responses that discredit the points i was trying to make...

YOU ALL ARE RIGHT...

i will research which foreign bike maker "builds in America" and i am gonna trade in my Buell and then tell everyone i still have an America bike...i was so stupid for thinking Buell was American...baa, baa , baa i am becoming a sheep like everyone else in America.

i can't wait to look at all the other "American" bikes that i didn't know about until i was enlightened by the foreign (they say American) car buyers.

the above mentioned scenario will take place when Satan starts scraping layers of frost off the windshield of his Prius...he's gotta have a hybrid (gas and open fire don't mix well).
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Rainman
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 09:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

1963 VW beetle, 200,000 miles, engine rebuilt at 180,000.

1973 Super Beetle, 90,000 miles, just maintenance.

1976 Ford Mustang II, first new car. Engine was recalled to replace all four pistons because of "scuffing." Transmission was recalled because it would stop short of park but read P on the counsel and roll out of the parking space. Engine constantly leaked oil because of poor design of cam cover. Transmission had to be rebuilt at 44,000 miles.
Water pump at 20,000 miles. Oil pan seal blows out on a trip through South Dakota at 30,000 miles. Three starters before 80,000. Engine starts eating and blowing oil at 75,000.

1983 Subaru 44,000 miles no repairs beyond tires and oil changes.

1985 Subaru 275,000 miles with two water pumps and a radiator, all after 100,000.

1990 Mazda mini van, handed down to me with 150,000, sold at 175,000 with no repairs necessary.

2004 Toyota Corolla swamped in a flash flood, engine filled with flood water at 26,000. Changed the oil, cleaned everything out, no problems at 30,000.

I grew up in Oldsmobileville and have no problems with unions but the Mustang left a bad taste in my mouth for 30 years. Maybe I should get over it, but so far I'm doing pretty good.
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Kdan
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 09:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hey xbrad, I'm happy your g'father retired from the auto industry.
You realize future generations aren't going to get any retirement benefits from any employer? My majour computer company has discontinued retirement benefits. But they will help you in defining what you need to do on your own to retire.
Times, they are a changing.
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Xbrad9r
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

reading this thread was more depressing than i ever dreamed it could possibly be...not one voice of agreement, i really am out in left field alone.

I truly am sorry i started this thread to begin with that was so against everyone's core beliefs and feelings, very sad indeed.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Everyone responsible for the 96 Ford Windstar I owned oughta be out on the street.

My 95 Saturn SC2 (Made in USA) was a far better car then the two befor it, an 81 Honda Prelude, and an 85 Honda CRX Si. Both of which had steller reputations and were very good cars. But the Saturn was better in every regard.

My Toyota Sienna (Made in USA, designed in Japan) is overall fairly good, and tries to do more then my Saturn (meaning more stuff to break). Overall, I don't think it is quite as good, both in terms of design and execution. And replacement part costs for the Toyota are stupid expensive. Kinda feels like the Honda did. Very good, fairly expensive, tries to do too much.

The Saturns I have seen seem to have gone downhill. At least the LS series cars, which were derivations of European opals. Don't know if the "homegrown" saturns are still good or not.

If the Saturn exploded tomorrow, I would probably go get a Pontiac Vibe, which is really a Toyota, and I think is made in California.

All things being equal, I will buy American. But you have to at least be playing in the right ballpark. You are talking $25k for a new "family" vehicle. I'm not going to screw around with that kind of money, so if you are asking me for it, you better be sweating every last freaking detail. Toyota is, Saturn used to, Ford didn't.
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Rainman
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hey, don't feel bad Xbrad, we're not in total disagreement. We all WANT to buy American. Unfortunately, most of us need to buy the best that we can for least we can spend and dynamics have change in the past 20 years.

And like their multinational counterparts, American cars are made in Mexico and Canada or are conglomerations of Australian, Japanese and Swedish. My Toyota was made in Canada, for crying out loud.

Baiting governments for the best deal is a big business in big business. GM got huge incentives from Lansing, Mi and still closed the plant down. It's wrong, but it's business. Like you said, America needs more American investment, not more foreign investment.
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Court
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 11:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Oh yes. . . . and if you are using a computer, watching television, or wearing a t-shirt . . . . well, it's been a long time since the last manufacturers of any of those left America.

It's a GLOBAL economy, not a bad one.
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Interceptor
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I believe my 95 Chevy Z28 comes from Canada....dont know about the engine though.
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Rocketman
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 12:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I say it sucks that GM bought Saab and talk is rife that Saab's will no longer be built in Sweden but Cadillac's will.

It sucks that Ford bought Jaguar and Aston Martin, then turned Jaguar into less than prestige. Aston they want to sell but are asking ridiculous money.

It sucks that when I think about it I can think of only three UK car manufacturers that still exist. Morgan, Bristol and Fairway cabs.

Rolls Royce's have BMW power these days. Can you imagine those two English gentlemen hearing their luxury prestige automobiles are now German powered. 70 years ago, such business shenanigans would have you up at the Old Bailey for treason.

Now some young Russian has sunk TVR, probably forever. But even if not, TVR's will never be built in England again.

My Bonneville's had water slide transfers on their frames, "Made in England". Back then we were a proud manufacturing nation. Not any bloody more.

Rocket
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Court
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 01:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>turned Jaguar into less than prestige.

And try as Ford may they can't GIVE Jaguar away . . .

Both Ford and Jaguar are coming off the greatest losses in their respective histories. Ford set the record for the largest corporate financial loss in history and then GM goes and snatches if from them the next day. . . .

Building American JUST cause it's American, in the age of worldwide thinking, supply chains and quality . . ain't enough to cut it any longer.


quote:

Burdened by big European losses and billions of dollars in U.S. health care costs, Ford Motor Co. on Wednesday reported the largest annual loss in American corporate history, even though its production lines are the most efficient of Detroit's Big Three.
.
Last year's loss of $7.4 billion by the nation's No. 2 automaker will stand as a record for only one day. On Thursday, General Motors Corp. is due to announce a much larger loss, of about $23 billion, composed almost entirely of a $20-billion charge for the future medical costs of its retired workers as part of a nationwide revision of accounting standards applying to all U.S. corporations.
.
This blizzard of bookkeeping losses has hit the auto companies harder than many others because over the years they have negotiated extremely liberal health benefit packages for workers in place of pay increases, but did not accompany them with any method of controlling medical costs - a national and not just a corporate problem that is finally forcing government reform of the private U.S. health insurance system.
.
Ford says its employee medical costs of about $800 a car are well below the industry average of about $1,000, but they still cost the company more than its bill for steel.
.
Ford had to take a one-time retiree health care charge of $7.5 billion under the new Financial Standards Advisory Board Rule No. 106. It also gained $657 million from a new accounting for income taxes. Even after these adjustments, its worldwide automotive operations lost $1.5 billion, an improvement of $1.7 billion from a loss of $3.2 billion in 1991. But this was hardly anything to boast about when revenues jumped from $88 billion to $100 billion in one year and the most consistently profitable part of the business was its financial services division.
.
U.S. operations lost $405 million despite an 8 percent rise in U.S. factory sales. This was boosted by Ford's Taurus overtaking Japan's Honda Accord as the best-selling car in America, assisted by consumer rebates averaging $1,030 a car for all Ford models and up to $3,500 for leases on the Taurus.
.
"How could they increase factory sales throughout the year and still lose so much money? They still haven't figured out how to make money selling cars in the United States," said Maryann Keller, an auto industry analyst with Furman Selz.
.
She said the company spent about $5 billion designing and launching the new Mondeo, which debuts in Europe next month, as a belated successor to the mid-range Sierra, and remodeling its Escort and Fiesta.
.
"And they boasted about it," she said, noting that Chrysler spent only about $1.3 billion launching its successful LH range.
.
Ms. Keller added: "They don't know how to launch a car in a reasonable amount of time and for a reasonable amount of money. They have plenty of good people but they don't know how to orchestrate them. Chrysler found out how to do it."
.
Ford's chairman, Harold A. Poling, said last year "was one of the most unusual years in our business" because of an uncertain world economy and the huge health charges. But in operations, Ford officials conceded that after years of leadership in Europe, its operations there were the company's trouble spot last year and lost $1.1 billion.
.
Since 1990, Ford has been laying off workers to reduce manpower from 115,000 to 85,000 this year. The company took a charge of $419 million in the last quarter to pay for the reductions. The other identifiable large loss was about $400 million in Jaguar of Britain, which Ford took over as a prestige operation and is trying to turn around.
.
"The results can be summed up by saying that it's mostly Jaguar and Great Britain for Europe," said David McCammon, the treasurer, in Detroit. He declined to predict that Ford of Europe would return to profitability this year, because of continuing sales declines for the auto industry.
.
But Ms. Keller said things would have been better if Ford had woken up earlier. "They were the king of the hill for so long and getting so many accolades that they didn't invest any money and didn't notice that GM, Peugeot, even Renault were reorganizing and catching up with them," she said. Burdened by big European losses and billions of dollars in U.S. health care costs, Ford Motor Co. on Wednesday reported the largest annual loss in American corporate history, even though its production lines are the most efficient of Detroit's Big Three.
.
Last year's loss of $7.4 billion by the nation's No. 2 automaker will stand as a record for only one day. On Thursday, General Motors Corp. is due to announce a much larger loss, of about $23 billion, composed almost entirely of a $20-billion charge for the future medical costs of its retired workers as part of a nationwide revision of accounting standards applying to all U.S. corporations.
.
This blizzard of bookkeeping losses has hit the auto companies harder than many others because over the years they have negotiated extremely liberal health benefit packages for workers in place of pay increases, but did not accompany them with any method of controlling medical costs - a national and not just a corporate problem that is finally forcing government reform of the private U.S. health insurance system.
.
Ford says its employee medical costs of about $800 a car are well below the industry average of about $1,000, but they still cost the company more than its bill for steel.
.
Ford had to take a one-time retiree health care charge of $7.5 billion under the new Financial Standards Advisory Board Rule No. 106. It also gained $657 million from a new accounting for income taxes. Even after these adjustments, its worldwide automotive operations lost $1.5 billion, an improvement of $1.7 billion from a loss of $3.2 billion in 1991. But this was hardly anything to boast about when revenues jumped from $88 billion to $100 billion in one year and the most consistently profitable part of the business was its financial services division.
.
U.S. operations lost $405 million despite an 8 percent rise in U.S. factory sales. This was boosted by Ford's Taurus overtaking Japan's Honda Accord as the best-selling car in America, assisted by consumer rebates averaging $1,030 a car for all Ford models and up to $3,500 for leases on the Taurus.
.
"How could they increase factory sales throughout the year and still lose so much money? They still haven't figured out how to make money selling cars in the United States," said Maryann Keller, an auto industry analyst with Furman Selz.
.
She said the company spent about $5 billion designing and launching the new Mondeo, which debuts in Europe next month, as a belated successor to the mid-range Sierra, and remodeling its Escort and Fiesta.
.
"And they boasted about it," she said, noting that Chrysler spent only about $1.3 billion launching its successful LH range.
.
Ms. Keller added: "They don't know how to launch a car in a reasonable amount of time and for a reasonable amount of money. They have plenty of good people but they don't know how to orchestrate them. Chrysler found out how to do it."
.
Ford's chairman, Harold A. Poling, said last year "was one of the most unusual years in our business" because of an uncertain world economy and the huge health charges. But in operations, Ford officials conceded that after years of leadership in Europe, its operations there were the company's trouble spot last year and lost $1.1 billion.
.
Since 1990, Ford has been laying off workers to reduce manpower from 115,000 to 85,000 this year. The company took a charge of $419 million in the last quarter to pay for the reductions. The other identifiable large loss was about $400 million in Jaguar of Britain, which Ford took over as a prestige operation and is trying to turn around.
.
"The results can be summed up by saying that it's mostly Jaguar and Great Britain for Europe," said David McCammon, the treasurer, in Detroit. He declined to predict that Ford of Europe would return to profitability this year, because of continuing sales declines for the auto industry.
.
But Ms. Keller said things would have been better if Ford had woken up earlier. "They were the king of the hill for so long and getting so many accolades that they didn't invest any money and didn't notice that GM, Peugeot, even Renault were reorganizing and catching up with them," she said.



SOURCE
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Nxtr
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

“on a sidenote Toyota says that they plan on importing more of the vehicles they sale in the U.S. than in the past couple of years to help with cost reduction”


TUPELO, Miss. (AP) — Toyota Motor Corp. said Tuesday it will build a $1.3 billion assembly plant in northeast Mississippi to manufacture its Highlander sport utility vehicle.
Production is set to begin by 2010 and employment is projected at 2,000. The company said it expects to build 150,000 vehicles a year.
The plant will be built on a 1,700 acre site at Blue Springs, land that has been promoted for economic development.
Mississippi was chosen in a competition with Tennessee and Arkansas.
The plant will be the second automaker to locate in the state. Nissan Motor Corp. opened its assembly plant north of Jackson in 2003. The 4,000-employee plant produced about 278,000 vehicles last year.

Sounds like a total of 6000 jobs for Americans to me, I may be wrong though…


“reading this thread was more depressing than i ever dreamed it could possibly be...not one voice of agreement, i really am out in left field alone.”

No your not unless it’s the ninth inning and the other teams winning…


“i am just trying to educate the ignorant (literal, not insulting) by bringing some more facts to the table, they may be assinine facts but my grandfather retired from GM and part of the cost of each car built helped pay his retirement benefits...”

I served 23 years for Uncle Sugar and damn sure was not planning on living on the Retirement the US Government provides me every month (I like ramen but not that much). I started a second career opening two small businesses, and I am investing in my own future retirement plan, which of course is global as well…

Have a Miller lite and relax, oh wait make it a Bud; Miller is owned by South African Breweries…

V/R,
Nick

(Message edited by nxtr on February 27, 2007)
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Djkaplan
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The best Chinese food in the world is in San Francisco.
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Mortarmanmike120
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

reading this thread was more depressing than i ever dreamed it could possibly be...not one voice of agreement, i really am out in left field alone.”
We're not against you. You give your side of a conversation. I give mine. They don't always agree but that's how communication works. I'd like American car companies to do well, I just don't view it as some type of entitlement that they do well.

they may be assinine facts but my grandfather retired from GM and part of the cost of each car built helped pay his retirement benefits...”
I didn't mean to say the fact's were asinine only the comparison of number of retirees. Of course GM has more retirees then Toyota. Toyota hasn't been in operation in the US long enough to have many retirees. But when it happens, I garantee that toyota retirees don't cripple the company the way GM's have. Your grandfather was the last of an era man. Today, if you depend on ANY employer to fund your complete retirement you're a fool. Don't do it. Ask the airline industry how that's working out for them.

I served 23 years for Uncle Sugar and damn sure was not planning on living on the Retirement the US Government provides me every month
Damn right. My retirement is MY responsibility. Whatever my employer pitches in is only icing on the cake. I (we) are responsible for MY (our) destinies.
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Slowride
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 05:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

XBrad9r,

For what it worth, My father who was a result of the WWII era grew up with family and friends staunchly rooted in the American Dream of Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness. This ment a staunchly American Slant on anything purchased or dreamt of. My fathers family snarled at the globalization of the American Economy and that same thought pattern seated into my fathers very core. To this day he will not buy any thing but American Company's both in Trucks and Bikes.

I being a bright eyed disconnected youth wrapped up in the "Got to have it now for the cheapest price" world of modern America asked him why he thought this way. He simply stated "When the weapons of war that wreaked havoc on my family and friends are now the machines of pleasure, the past has all to soon been forgotten".

Now with all that said, I served in the Corp, I work for a Private American Owned Company and I drive Ford and ride Buells. It is by choice and I do it because I WANT to remember the fight of our forefathers. I WANT to believe in an American Ideology and I WANT remain loyal in a unloyal world where it is all about the ME's.

Kuddos for sticking up for what you believe in.
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Bigblock
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Funny, I'm driving around in a rather reliable and handsome 1967 ford F100. You tell me how many Toyota or datsun pickups you see from 67, or even 77 for that matter...

Too bad they dont build "em like they used to...
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Buelltoys
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 06:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have only ever owned Ford, GM or Chrysler vehicle until I started working for Hyundai. They make a great car. I will still be buying Ford trucks and Buell motorcycles because I like them the best!

But just because it doesn't have Ford, GM or Chrysler on the name plate doesn't mean that it is not built in America. But since the American companies keep having layoffs and I still have a job I guess I will keep using the money I make at Hyundai to buy American bikes and trucks.
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Rocketman
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

And try as Ford may they can't GIVE Jaguar away . . .

The crisis at Jaguar today is no ones fault but Fords. Jaguar were in such very poor shape right down to the production floor when Ford moved in that to say Ford were less than happy with what they found would be an understatement of mammoth proportion. The rescue must have been massive even for Ford, but I guess the lure of such a prestige brand must have had them chomping at the bit back then.

Aston on the other hand have to Fords credit been left pretty much alone to continue doing what they do best. Hand building prestige cars for the upper classes, and footballers of course. Brother in law has just last week swapped his Vantage for a new Vanquish. No he's not a footballer. You'd never see him downgrading to a lowly Jaguar, and one can see why. Ford have steered Jaguar down into the cheap seats in search of a wider market. Don't get me wrong, the S Type is a really nice drive, but despite its success in the market place the X Type hasn't been anywhere near as successful as Ford must have wanted.

Did Ford bite off more than they could chew when they thought they could revamp Jaguar for a more popular market down in the cheap seats? No wonder nobody wants the left overs at Jaguar. Jaguar for Mondeo money anybody?

Rocket
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Jon
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 11:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The jag was never more than an urban legend. It still is. But the fact that they are now American makes people all over the world say, "oh my!".

Everyone wan't to be an AMerican. Even domestic farm animals wish they were Americans.
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M2nc
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 11:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My 1999 M2 has 44,500 miles on it. It has a few leaks, but I did that when I plugged up the vent tubes and pushed oil out the clutch cable. The bike still runs great and for a sport bike that says a lot.

I have a 1994 Chevy Suburban. It has 168,000 miles on it. We bought it used with 94,000. Looking at the repair receipts, I got the truck cheap because the rear end bearing was making noise. We also changed the alternator, battery, brakes, water pump, Tires, A/C compressor and belts. It needs shocks and the paint is cracking. All that said, the engine does not use any oil between changes, the trans work beautifully. Makes routine trips to Ohio usually so packed that we have two car top carriers on it. I towed a '71 Plymouth Satellite from Georgia and the Bikes to Maryland. We want to paint the truck and keep driving it. My friend has a 1993 4x4 Suburban with 275,000 miles that he drives to work. He bought a 2005 for trips. I bought my first Suburban from him. It was a 1986 Suburban with 189,000 when we sold it for a more modern truck that has rear heat. I had a Caprice Classic Wagon before that. We drove it to 185,000 miles when we sold it after buying a new 1998 Camry.

The Camry was a good car but with 40,000 miles the Strut Bushings went out. Toyota dealer tells us it is a common problem. We research it and find out that Strut Bushing failures on Camrys are more common than Ulysses Kick Stand failures per ca-pita. Buell recalls the kick stands and I have it fixed on their dime. We contacted Toyota and they said tough! $400 repair cost for a car that had at the time 1/4th the mileage of my Chevys.

All machines have problems. American Car companies have made some great cars, and so real duds. The 1970s were not a good time for American Car Companies. It was the wake up call. Mustang IIs were junk, while Fox Platform Mustangs were reliable 150,000 miles + cars. That is the problem with American Car Companies. They have been around from the beginning and have made some colossal mistakes, but they are not alone. Japanese cars were rust buckets during the days of Mustang IIs. My dad's 1977 Benz had two transmission rebuilds before 90,000 miles. This from a man that had a '62 Falcon Wagon with 262,000 miles on it.

I have all American company vehicles, but that does not mean I only buy American. I have an open mind, but bang for the buck, I am satisfied with my Dodge Minivan, I really like the Suburban and I love my Buells. Other makes that I like Ducati 1000GT, BMW R1200 & K1200, Honda VFR, Yamaha FJR, Kawasaki Concord 14 & KLR, Triumph 675 all peak my interest but will have a hard time replacing my Uly.

(Message edited by M2nc on February 27, 2007)
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Djkaplan
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 08:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Funny, I'm driving around in a rather reliable and handsome 1967 ford F100."

Hey, I have a 1955 Ford that my step-father and I fixed up in 1992. It's the 2-door post sedan old timers call a 'Mainline'.

My step-dad wound up giving me the car... hell of a note for a die-hard Chevy man, but I love that old Ford.
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Yohinan
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I pondered for quite a while about replying to this post. I guess if you’re reading this then you can see I made the final decision to throw my .02 (more like a couple dollars after this post) in after all.

I am not sure what I hope to accomplish from this post, whether good or bad, depending on how you interpret my typing.

Either way I would have to imagine anyone would be hard pressed to find anyone as anal as I am about buying American products. I will go to any and all extremes to purchase something that is US made. I even have issues with purchasing end products that are built in the US but not all parts are made in the US. Our Buell's are a perfect example of this along with millions of other products that are sold around the US everyday.

I have no qualms about having to save up to buy an item at double the price if it will get me a part made in the US vice something that comes from overseas. I am also not so delusional that I think no parts that are US made are in fact, junk. I do my research on any and all parts that I buy whether US or foreign made.

I think the overall mentality floating around today is I would rather have what I want now and pay as little as possible for it even if the quality is compromised some. In comparison then having to wait to save up for a quality made US part that costs more and will take longer to get. Ironically, even though it is generally known for example Chinese products are not the greatest around, most will still buy it knowing it will not last.

What I personally find appalling is since starting my quest of buying US products I am amazed at the amount of money we are contributing to China. I would say that 99 out of 100 items I look at (to find country of origin) are Chinese made. How much money are we sending over there in the products Americans buy everyday? I don’t even want to imagine.

It's my personal belief that to continue to support this country in any and all ways possible I do everything within my power to ensure I purchase from US manufacturers. I one day hope to own my own business and realize a lot of people will pass me by because US prices are higher than others. What I hope to offer is service that is above and beyond what is normal in today’s day and age. I am sure everyone that has been around a while knows of the "decline in service" that I am speaking of. Do most people even care anyway since service has declined over the years and still continues to do so for the most part. I would think if it really mattered to most then those non service oriented companies would have gone to the wayside but from what I have gathered they have not. Maybe everyone has just become content with accepting being treated this way therefore they stand by and say or do nothing to stop it.

I am not sure if anyone cares what "made" me this way but I guess since I have typed up so much already this tidbit of information can be included also. Over the years (I am only 29 so you can interpret this statement in whatever manner you would like) I have spent more money than I would like on buying the same parts over and over again. At the time I never realized it but these parts were all coming from China. After what I would guess to be thousands of dollars over time I finally said I have had it with China. Now, I am in no way saying China cannot produce a quality made product that cannot last. What I am saying is me being the average Joe, I have no way of actually ensuring what I am getting has gone through a stringent set of QA measures. Large corporations such as Buell that import parts have these QA measure built in (at least I am seriously hoping so), therefore allowing me to not worry so much about what I am getting.

When it comes to buying items in life I can tell you I go to extremes to ensure I can buy a US made item. How extreme. I just purchased some casters for some engine stands that are US made. After speaking with the stand manufacturer and finding out the casters were imported I said I just want the stand I will find the casters myself. After no less than 20 phone calls and paying what is probably 2 times the price I got my US made casters.

If I absolutely cannot find something that is made in the US then I will resort to sourcing from other countries however I NEVER buy anything that is made in China even if they are the only country producing it. I have been burned too many times and spent too much money and have made it my personal mission to never buy Chinese products again. Call me odd but it's just me.

Funny thing is now when my kids have a toy or something else break they say that must have been made in China. Funny thing is, I can’t recall anything yet they had that broke that was not made in China. They make me proud when were out shopping and they want something. They will pick it up and look at the packaging and look for themselves to see where it's made. 90 percent of the time if they see the made in China label they will look at me with the ugly face and say, "Ewwww, made in China I don’t want it," or something to that effect. They are 7 and 5. My 5 year old cant even read but he knows what the Made in China lettering looks like and can pick it out.

Call me naive for my beliefs or call me upstanding for my beliefs but either way you will most likely either be in agreement or disagreement with me. And that’s ok.....

I am not looking for arguments or contradictions to my post. These are just my personal beliefs and feelings and everyone is entitled to their own. I have not posted on anyone else's comments for that specific reason. To each their own. I just wanted to let everyone see of what opinion I come from.
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Ducxl
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 02:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yohinan,you and i are birds of a feather.I try VERY hard to ALWAYS purchase products made by my fellow American countrymen.

Here,hear.....
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Frankfast
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 12:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I understand the sentiment here and want very much to agree. However, just as products are being imported or composed of imported parts, so are the people buying them. Whatever characteristics you might apply to those you identify as "true American" will eventually be diluted in a multicultural population whether we like it or not. The products we purchase are a reflection and a result of who we are.
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Xl1200r
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 01:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have never owned a vehcile that wasn't an American brand. We can get into if it was made in the U.S., Canada, wherever, but the bottom line is "follow the money". That Toyota may have been built in the states, but every dime of profit goes to Japan.

Currently, I ride a Buell and drive a Chevy (that was built in Ohio).

Talk about spending more? I had a Vanson jacket on order, and they told me it was going to be 6 weeks because they were waiting for a shipment from Pakistan. Excuse me? A Vanson made in Pakistan? You've got to be kidding me. I literallt felt sick to my stomach. So I cancelled the order and spend twice the money on a Vanson that was built right here in the U.S.A.

As far as vehicles and quality and what not, here's my take. I used to work in a garage all through high-school and college and was able to drive a LOT of cars (I'm only 23, so this wasn't too long ago). There was only ONE foreign car that I drove that was impressed with (BMW M3 with some goofy robotic clutch transmission thing). I have NEVER been impressed with ANYTHING about a Japanese car when compared to a comparably priced American make.

On the same note, this was a large shop (16 bays). We employed something like 25 people or more (techs, parts guys, office girls, etc.) In that employee parking lot, there were a total of 3 foriegn cars. A Mitsubishi Lancer that a parts guy took over the payments from his girlfriend, a Honda Civic that some young punk kid had all hopped up, and a VW that belonged to the tech that we hired from the European Car shop down the road.

For a group of guys that deal with working on cars ALL DAY, EVERYDAY, and the last thing they want to do is work on their own vehicle, there were an awful lot of Domestic vehciles, most notably a large number of GM trucks.
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Tx05xb12s
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have owned three new vehicles in my life thus far, and all of them have been Chevrolet trucks/SUVs. I just paid the latest one off a few months ago, and it's five years old with 70,000 miles on it. I intend to drive it until it becomes unreliable, which I expect to be years down the road.

Why did I purchase the Chevys? Because I'm particularly patriotic? Well yes and no. I looked at American vehicles first because I like the idea of buying American made products. However, before each purchase I looked at all brands. It just so happened that for what I wanted and for what I thought was a fair price, Chevrolet beat all competitors every time both quantitatively and qualitatively. Same goes for the Buell.

I would like to be able to continue purchasing American made products, but they've got to provide the greatest value and reliability. I'm not rich, so I don't have the luxury of picking and choosing among available products just because of any particular loyalty I may foster. When the Chevy quits on me down the road, I'll again assess the available purchasing options. I hope another American vehicle is the winner, but if it's not, I'll have no qualms about my purchasing decision other than being disappointed in American manufacturers. Hopefully we'll remain competitive in the global market.

My father, Mr. Oldschool himself, has been a die-hard Ford owner all his life. A few months ago, he shocked me when he came home with a new Toyota truck. He said he hated that Ford couldn't compete in price and quality with the foreign brand, but thought it would be foolish to make a purchase based on some perceived loyalty to a manufacturing entity. I think he's got his head in the right place.
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Slaughter
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

We're going to hit 300,000 miles on Sunny's Saturn in about a month.

Yeah, she's starting to burn a little oil, mileage isn't 40mpg any more but she'll still run just fine (the Saturn that is, we're both old farts ourselves)
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Swordsman
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Is that Sauturn an S-1? Man, I still miss my '95 S-1... best $5 I ever spent! I couldn't get less than 38 mpg no matter how hard I ragged it! It truly sucks that GM is forcing Saturn to abandon the plastic body panels... without them, they just don't seem like a Saturn anymore (guess that's because they're all becoming Opels).

~SM
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Djkaplan
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 03:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"My father, Mr. Oldschool himself, has been a die-hard Ford owner all his life. A few months ago, he shocked me when he came home with a new Toyota truck."

That's a Ford man for you... just kidding!

My step-father, the son of a sharecropper who worked his way into success by the sheer force of his will, used Nissan and Toyota trucks for his businesses. Rear wheel drive was pretty much the only important thing to him. Even on the lawnmowers.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 04:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My 95 Saturn SC2 is at 150k miles now, and has been a better car then any of the Honda's I ever owned.

How are the Vue's? Like the old SC/SL cars (i.e. good) or like the new LS / Opels (bad)?
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Rainman
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Why are they getting rid of the plastic body panels? That's what made Saturn different from Chebuponcadolds.
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Buellshyter
Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Why are they getting rid of the plastic body panels?

GM said it was because they could never get the plastic body panels to fit with as tight a tolerance as the metal. In addition, with oil being the price it is, the metal is cheaper to produce.
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