| Author | Message | ||
     Xbrad9r |
we have had a couple of discussion on the quick board recently and here is some info to go along with my arguments/statements of fact. for more info on this and even more of "the truth" about toyota go to www.howtobuyamerican.com one the best websites (aside from this one) i have been on in a while...anyway here is the story. Do You Know Where Your Car is Made? Listed below are 85 American-made automobiles. Each vehicle listed is built with union labor. But regardless of how you may feel about the labor movement in general, the fact remains that foreign automakers producing in the U.S. predominantly assemble their automobiles in low-wage states like Alabama and Kentucky, where American-owned automakers (Ford and General Motors) predominantly produce in high-wage union states like Michigan. This author has nothing against any state in our great country. We are all part of America and deserve jobs just like anyone else. The point I am trying to make is that this is one of many relatively unknown facts that give foreign-owned automakers huge cost advantages over American-owned automakers. Consider the following: In 1997, the state of Alabama granted huge subsidies to Mercedes in exchange for a plant that would employ 1,500 people. What were the details of this huge incentive package? $300 million in tax breaks, $253 million in direct incentives, $60 million in Alabama taxpayer money to send fellow Alabamans to Germany for training, and a promise to buy 2,500 of the new Mercedes SUV’s at $30,000 each. Based on just the initial $300 million grant alone, those 1,500 jobs will cost Alabama taxpayers $200,000 per job. Apparently Alabama, not Mercedes, will be paying those salaries for years to come. With deals like these, it’s no wonder foreign automakers have stepped up production in the U.S. We’ll even pay their workers’ salaries for them! In 1987, Toyota constructed an auto plant on part of the 1,500 acres of free land given to them in Georgetown, Kentucky. The auto plant was built by a Japanese steel company using Japanese steel. The U.S. government granted a “special trade zone” so that Toyota could import auto parts from Japan duty-free. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan. Total federal and state grants and incentives exceeded $100 million. These subsidies, of course, were courtesy of your tax dollars. Tennessee gave Nissan $11,000 per job for their Smyrna plant built in 1980. South Carolina coughed up $79,000 per job to convince Germany’s BMW to build their plant in Spartanburg in 1992. Were you aware that our government was using your money to create jobs? Or are these merely job announcements where you and I foot the bill? Job announcements do make for great rhetoric for state governors’ re-election campaigns. How many years will it take a factory worker in Alabama to pay back the $200,000+ in tax money that the government gave away? A conservative answer would be “several.” This is not to say that American companies are not granted incentives to build plants here. The most recent is $100 million in incentives for Cadillac to build their next plant in Michigan. It is my opinion that we should not be imitating the Third World by using public money to bid for jobs. But when given the choice between foreign investment (Toyota, Mercedes, Nissan) and American investment (General Motors and Ford), American investment is much better for America. The deal Alabama gave Mercedes makes the deal Michigan gave GM seem rather frugal. The point here is that these huge incentives that are offered to foreign companies are rarely offered to our own companies here at home. Such incentives allow foreign companies to save hundreds or even thousands of dollars in costs per automobile. And American companies acquire more of their parts from domestic sources, so more jobs are created in the automotive parts industry in America. America needs more American investment, not more foreign investment. | ||
| Xbrad9r |
this folks is why i drive a Ford and I ride a Buell... oh another bit of info...did you know that Toyota had more recalls in 2005 than total vehicles built...and that in a behind the scenes video footage of their new Tundra commercial that the trucks in the background that built that set were several Fords (ranger, f150and Super Duty) i guess their trucks weren't tough enough for "real work"...and they settled a class action lawsuit with over 3.5 million customers because of engine destroying sludge buildup in their beloved camrys and Lexus vehicles... Toyota's self proclaimed (from their old commercials) quality and reliabilty is old news and the fact is today's toyotas are far worse than you can, that is unless you own one and have all the documents to prove it like recall letters and class action lawsuit paperwork...maybe they need a commercial we just lost a huge lawsuit and had to pay for millions and millions of recalls "oh, what a feeling, toyota" | ||
| Xbrad9r |
this is a one man thread, but one more thing i just thought about...maybe that foreign substance in Michael Waltrips engine at Daytona wasn't his fault after all, it could just be the sludge from his Camry engine...hey, he can pay for part of his fine if he gets in on the class action lawsuit. | ||
| Kdan |
So do they happen to mention why Ford closed the plant in Atlanta and shitcanned 5,000 workers? I believe it was because they can make Taurus's cheaper in Mexico. Buells aren't made in America either. For the record. | ||
| Pregrid |
And I'm pretty sure impala's are built in Canada. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Just another reason people should educate themselves on poltics and vote. | ||
| Tattoodnscrewd |
Buells aren't made in America either Buell may outsource for some parts, but Buell's ARE still built in America ... There is a fine line between what people think made in America is ... Anything claimed to be made in America will undoubtedly have imported parts on it, Ford carries as many Bosch parts as BMW, in fact many of the same parts - same for Mazda as well - isn't the Ford Probe basically a Mazda, the engine certainly is ... Look at Chrysler as well ... If we include where parts come, it would be safe to say that nothing is made in America... like I said, fine line. In the case of the Buell .. the powerplant of the bike is most certainly built here, and the bike itself, is most certainly built here. Buell is American Made - just with an assortment of imported parts. | ||
| Midknyte |
Complain about the engine [as some are want to do] but having that Harley lump in there is what makes a Buell an American bike to me. If and when we get a new engine, I hope that it will still be an HD (there's no reason they can't make a fully Buell spec engine for us that will keep everyone happy). | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
Uh, ok, sure... I work at TMMK Georgetown along with about 7000 other TMMK employees. It is not uncommon for full time workers to make $70,000/year there depending on bonuses and overtime. The average wage is probably closer to 60,000. $60,000 x 7000 = $420 million/year Then you have suppliers and tranportation. I have no idea how many but I'd guess thousands of additional regional workers who make and ship parts used to make the cars. Lots of parts are American. (don't ask for a percentage I have no idea.) Then you have the skilled/maintenance employees. Also Kentuckians. The people who work on the conveyances/welders/injectors/presses. All of the huge injectors in my area are Cincinnati mold injectors. The molds are brought over from Japan so that all molds are identical. The presses however are American. Major machinery. My understanding of the 'free trade zone' is that it is a method of reducing red tape and stream lining the taxation policy. Taxes are paid for the total vehicle when they leave the lot instead of each little individual piece getting tarifed on the way in. Believe me, I no Toyota cheerleader. I have my disagreements with them. TMMK is for all intents and purposes an American plant minus the union. | ||
| Roadrailer |
Tax breaks and incentives are frequently used by state and local governments to entice big business to move to the area. It's far more common than you'd think. And I'm pretty sure impala's are built in Canada. IIRC, the GMC Sierra I used to own was assembled in Canada as well. And while Buells are assembled in the USA, where do the forks come from? Shock? Seat? Wheels? The list goes on and on. Recalls? My 2006 Uly has had TWO recalls in less than a year for safety issues. Does that make it a bad bike? | ||
| Roadrailer |
mortarman, Thanks for the insightful post. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Buells aren't made in America either. That's a patently inaccurate statement. I have many friends who make their living every day building Buells. Not only are they BUILT IN AMERICA. . they are built VERY WELL in America. Ergo, some of the neat design awards and recognition Buell has received. See ya at Homecoming and if you'd like I'll show ya around and introduce you to some very nice people who BUILD BUELLS for a living. Court | ||
| Kdan |
That's a patently inaccurate statement. I have many friends who make their living every day building Buells. You know what I meant. BMW's are made in South Carolina. Another example of third world outsourcing? What's Britney Spears been up to over the weekend? | ||
| Chasespeed |
(Message edited by chasespeed on February 26, 2007) | ||
| Rainman |
Check the Brittany thread...she's apparently getting together with the President. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I, myself, am an American composed of outsourced parts. We all are, really. | ||
| Nxtr |
Its a Global economy brother, we're not the only ones My Samsung (Korean) tv was built in Mexico!!! Lifes too short to complain about whether or not it was made in the USA. If you like it, Ride it, Drive it, watch it, wear it, or do whatever. As a Retired Soldier of the US Army, I have been around the world and still have not found a country that I would rather live in, than here in the USA. V/R, Nick | ||
| Rocketman |
It's often quoted cars are the second most important purchase in our lives, after our homes. Trend, fashion, keeping up with the Jone's, practicality. Whatever it is that makes us purchase any motor vehicle, the bigger political picture is about oil. As long as there are cars to sell it's what makes the wheels go around that interests Bush's presidency. You don't think it's a coincidence the US government offer those incentives to motor manufacturers do you? More cars sells more oil. Rocket | ||
| Buellshyter |
Oil makes the world go around - get used to it | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
As long as there are cars to sell it's what makes the wheels go around that interests Bush's presidency. You don't think it's a coincidence the US government offer those incentives to motor manufacturers do you? More cars sells more oil. Oh snap! I thought it was about job creation! I should have known the evil dynasty had something more sinister up their sleeves! | ||
| Slaughter |
Hell, my 1971 Pinto had a motor made in Brazil. Odd mix of fractional and metric tools. Accessories were fractional but the motor itself was metric. My 1978 Ford pickup had a Canadian V8 (why do you think that the long stroke 351 is called a 351 Windsor?) | ||
| Bdabuell |
What's Britney Spears been up to over the weekend? She attacked a car with an umbrella... ...but I'm not sure where either were made, so this thread may not be the best place... | ||
| Xbrad9r |
(Message edited by xbrad9r on February 27, 2007) | ||
| Indy_bueller |
As long as there are cars to sell it's what makes the wheels go around that interests Bush's presidency. You don't think it's a coincidence the US government offer those incentives to motor manufacturers do you? More cars sells more oil. Oh WOW am I tired of hearing THAT! How many times has Pres Bush talked about reducing oil usage? How many proposals has the Administration put forth with the aim of increasing the number of "green" energy alternatives available? Spare us your politically motivated points that are grounded in heresay and innuendo. | ||
| Xbrad9r |
how many retired American auto workers retired from any foreign car company that they worked in anywhere in America? i think the number is extremely close to if not equal to zero. i bet Ford, GM and Chrysler have thousands and thousands they are paying retirement benefits to. oh and as i posted in one of the previous threads...a little over a year ago Ford Motor Company employed more American auto workers than the total of all the foreign companies added together (that is all of hondas, toyota, nissans, vws, kia, hyundais, etc all added together and Ford still had more), but the media (and the car companies propaganda commercials)makes all of you think that the foreign companies employ so many americans and all their cars are built here, how easy we are to trick...i bet the foreign car company execs read our newspapers and watch our TV news media and laugh about how easy it was to turn our country against our own product by using money we gave them. They will never get a dime from me, to bad most of you who read this have already given them thousands and thought you have such a better vehicle than me. we feel like we are fighting in a unwinnable war in Iraq...when the foreign countries that are destroying us are doing it under the cover of "free trade" and "capitalism"...so everyone with a foreign car key in your pocket, thank yourself for playing such a key role in all the layoffs and plant closings in the american auto industry...as you drive by their houses that they can't afford the payments on anymore, be glad that your rice mobile gets 2 more MPG than the American equivalant and the 3500 more you paid for it will never equal out in gas savings. | ||
| Buelltoys |
Well i'll just put in my 2cents. I work at the Hyundai plant in Alabama. And yes we were number 10 on the JD power awards for plant and #3 for quality of vehicle. As far as payment of skilled labor in Alabama and Kentucky I am sure it is just the same as in Michigan since I come from Illinois and know the labor there. Down here you just have to work to have a job! I know what unions have done to the automotive industry in the US since I have worked with Ford, GM and Chrysler over the years from my previous job. And it's good to have but better to be without! But only my 2cents!! For what it is worth. I buy American also because if it's built here it is American!! All the US automakers have investments in many oversees projects. GM, Ford and Chrysler are all global players just like the rest of them. | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
As far as retirement benefits are concerned, I'd say you're right Brad. But consider this, Toyota-Kentucky has been in operation 20 years. Why would there be retirees? Wait around 5 more years. The Toyota-California plants were only in operation like 5 years earlier. Comparing the number of retirees is sorta assinine. thank yourself for playing such a key role in all the layoffs and plant closings in the american auto industry...as you drive by their houses that they can't afford the payments on anymore I do have a little sympathy for them - A LITTLE. Pack up their stuff and MOVE WHERE THE JOBS ARE! Don't sit on your hands and bemoan the fact that you're company isn't as competitive - GO WHERE THE JOBS ARE. No company exist for the purpose of providing jobs, it exist for the purpose of providing goods and services and staying competitive against other companies that want to provide the same goods and services. The day Toyota stops being competitive and starts cutting jobs - I'm gone. It's called competition. It's good. It's reality. Get used to it. My employer (whoever that happens to be) does NOT owe me perpetual employment for the rest of my working life. The only thing I expect from my employer is a paycheck for the work completed. I work a week, I get paid for a week. If I want to get paid next week, I work next week. If he tells me there's no work, guess what, I go find new work. If I hire a neighbor kid to mow my grass, I'm not promising him that he can mow my grass for the next 30 years. Sorry if my response seems harsh. It's been a long day and I've had to politely deal with tree hugging left wing liberals all day so my conversational tolerance is lower then normal. BTW, I work at Toyota but the only vehicles I've ever owned were Ford Escort, Ford Ranger, Oldsmobile Cutlas, Buell XB. I'll probably be buying a Chevy monte carlo soon. On a side note: I gotta get the hell outta factory work. The pay is nice, but I hate it. Maybe it's time to go back on active duty? | ||
| Nxtr |
so everyone with a foreign car key in your pocket, thank yourself for playing such a key role in all the layoffs and plant closings in the american auto industry... I Drive my Honda Element (built in MARYSVILLE OHIO by AMERICAN Auto workers) daily... I gave up my built in Mexico by non-American workers, American truck for lack of reliability... I said before, it is a global economy, embrace it. and make it work for you!!! That is what makes living in the USA so great... V/R, Nick} (Message edited by nxtr on February 27, 2007) | ||
| Kdan |
Hey, I drive an American made Honda Element too! Mine has Buell stickers on it, so it's more acceptable in my particular circle. | ||
| Xbrad9r |
(Message edited by xbrad9r on February 27, 2007) |
