| Author | Message | ||
     Kaudette |
Oh boy.... First ride on the new KTM today. Before getting into details, and in the hope of avoiding un-necessary flaming by some out there, here's a preface to "my point of view on the KTM". 1. I have owned both a 9R and 12S (current bike) and like the Buell a bunch. 2. I went for the test ride "wanting" to like the KTM as I've been longing to take it for a spin for 2 years now. 3. I understand this is a Buell site so I'm not going to try to convince anyone the better / worse arguments between the bikes. OK? OK - so here is goes.... I picked up the mail this weekend only to find that my friendly insurance co has given out my details to every telemarketer on the planet - only this time it was for a good cause. I pulled out of the mailbox this big, shiny, ORANGE, newsletter announcing the arrival of the 990Duke and an open house at the local dealer. Couldn't make it over the weekend and figured they'd have a full house anyway so I waited until 70's and sunshine to hit the dealer for a spin - today. So I pulled up to the dealer, only to see a mat orange Duke standing out in front of the shop. First impression is hmmmm... do I like those angles - not really sure.... It is original, but in a somewhat "typical" way - not Jap and not American, and definitely not Italian... So I walked up to the bike, purposely "hiding" from the sales rep to have a good close look at it before having the hounds of you (which turned out not to be the case). First impression from up close - the lines aren't all that fluid but the colors are nice and well done. The attention to detail and finish are really top notch. Hands down winner against either the Duc or Triple in fit and finish. The motor is very compact and very low in the chassis. The dry sump is "neet" but I don't like the plastic down low all that much because again, the lines don't match up as you would expect them to... The frame and swingarm welds are all very clean and well done and the exhaust is a piece of work - very nice 2-1-2 and the pipes look sweet out behind the seat. The plastics are top quality and the controls are very precise. Excellent hydraulic clutch & very nice adjustable front brake - the controls are ahead of the pack. The orange on black chassis and grey motor goes well and the rims and brembos are sweet. Now at this point, I had spent about 10 mins just looking at the bike and after that you can tell a number of things. 1. the powertrain is very high tech 2. the center of gravity is very low, even though the seat height is pretty tall 3. a lot of effort went into the bike to make it not only perform well, but also stand the test of time in regards to wear and tear... So into the shop I go thinking, I probably don't "need" to own one but it should be fun for a 30 min test ride. No-one to be seen but a bit of noise "out back" so I take advantage of the freedom to finally have a sit on the Duke in the showroom. Sh*t... It felt like I was sitting on a tandem cannondale compared to the Buell - being so accustomed to seeing only road in front of me on the 12S, now I found myself looking at an orange instrument cluster, headlight assembly and radiator shrowds... Where did the aesthetic simplicity go??? First thought in my head - ok - just 30 mins for a spin, give the keys back and ride off into the sunset on the Buell - yuck - don't like all this superfluous "stuff"... So here comes the shop owner - we shoot the •••• a couple of mins and I ask if there is a demo sled for a spin - go thru the papers and such and he starts pushing the orange Duke out the front door, key in ignition. As I grab my helmet, he starts her up and you can immediately tell 2 things - 1 - the flywheel on the motor weighs next to nothing. 2 - the bike needs a set of pipes to make the bike sound mean and nasty - just too much policed "noise" with the stock pipes. So the bike burbles away at a fast idle (auto choke) and I get into the saddle. That first impression of length and size is still there, just a bit more repressed as I blip the throttle and the motor INSTANTLY jumps from 1K to 4K - this motor would be at home in a formula one car - the response is immediate and the controls feel like they are "fly by wire" as they are butter smooth and there is no slack or wait for any input whatsoever into the bike. So, I put the bike into gear and head off - errr, almost.... see I figured a 1000cc twin would have some balls down low but the KTM stalled on me - twice. Third time I figured out how to get the bike rolling and that's simply to feather the clutch for a moment with the motor above 2G - the bike moved on just fine and I noticed the first transformation. This bike is PAPER thin between the legs - yep, all that size "feeling" I had before just disappears as when you get into the saddle both feet and knees feel like they are about 9 inched apart - and it is a nice felling as you really get "into" the bike. So at the stop, turn left and head out onto the main road - 2 lane country road with 90 kms limit. The bike falls into the slow turn without a thought and I can already tell the front tire will speak a bit less than on the Buell. Anyway, it felt good and I head onto the straight with a bit of room in front - hit it in 2nd up to about 6G and the smile is already ear to ear - this motor is f****** amazing! Above 3G and all the way to readline, this thing just pulls like a freight train - EVERYWHERE! Throttle respose is immediate. The bike really tranforms at around 6G where the exhaust tune goes from rasp to wail and the KTM stretches the scenery - not R1 stretch, but in a much more definitive way than with the 12S. The surprizing thing about the motor is that you actually have a pretty pronounced engine brake on downshifts or cut-off, which was unexpected given the flywheel and the motor's ability to rev instantly. This is a sweet drivetrain - the 6 speed is very smooth, with nice snicks into each gear - I didn't get into 6th more than once as it is really a highway gear but the tranny is smooth and with the hydraulic clutch, things are pretty easy. After about 2 kms down the road I turn right onto 20 kms of mountain backroad that I know well, not to blast around, but just to see how she handles in the tight and less tight stuff. Bang, bang, bag, thru the gears and the smile's just getting bigger - very little vibration from the motor and the pull is wonderful. Coming up to a left turn I get on the brakes and wow - these Brembos really stop on a dime - the grab is more pronounced than with the Buell, but once you get over that, they feel a bit "stronger", albeit, perhaps a bit more difficult to dose. So I come into the left sweeper a bit on the brakes and there's no stand-up - the bike just drops perfectly into the turn and rounds out the line like I've been riding the bike for 100K miles. Easy - that's the word for it - this bike is a very easy handler - makes you look good. the center of gravity is very low and you can do the flip flop without thinking as it just goes telepathically. You can tell the chassis is longer than the Buell and you don't get all of the feedback from the front end that you get with the Buell, but in terms of ease and comfort level in getting the bike over, the KTM really takes the cake. So I head down into the twisties and just leave the bike in 3rd at 4G and flow thru the turns. All the sudden the bike feels like a glove - not too big, not too small, but just right to feel at one and in total confidence with the characteristics and handling. You do have to watch out for the engine braking coming fast into turns but other than that, things are very progressive and smooth. After 10 mins in the saddle, I felt comfortable enough to start approaching the chicken strips on the Diablos in the tight stuff (didn't quite make it as I still had the 1000€ deposit in the event you break it you buy it deal on the demo ride...  In any case, the bike inspires confidence. The chassis isn't as rigid as the Buell, but it is very well balanced and you don't have to worry quite as much where you are on the bike to have the handling stay true. The WP suspension seemed to work quite well and wasn't harsh. I guess in the fast stuff, one would want to tighten things up a bit but for everyday riding, the setup was pretty near perfect. So after 15 kms, I headed out onto the straights for a quick spin of the motor and once again - Holy Crap - this twin is amazing! Great powerplant, in any of the first 3 gears, you get the bike over 6G and you can just feel the front end lightening up as you hold onto tank with your legs and try to keep a loose grip on the bars. If this is what you get in exchange for some of the other crap (radiator, etc), then I'm beginning to better understand the tradeoffs... So time's just about up so back to the dealer - thru the twisties, testing out the balance & handling and brakes - everything feels just fine. One last hit on the straight and the slow down to turn into the dealer and had over the keys. He doesn't do trade-ins....  So I have a quick chat to get an idea of what the bike costs to own and basically 10K mile valvetrain updates for 250€ and other than that, just about the same. Overall "my" impressions are : 1. Amazing drivetrain - everything you could want in a twin - torque everywhere above 3G and pulls like a freight train - make that a possessed freight train 2. Extreme ease of use for a bike with that potential - everything fits and feels right and the bike handles extremely well. Probably not a setup for 10/10ths riding but for everyday blasting around a great chassis. 3. Fit and finish is top notch and a lot of time and effort went into making it right the first time. This is clearly a bike I would (will  ) own. Great ride and from a manufacturer that is into making bikes that make a statement as well. Next up the new speed triple, just to keep me from plopping down a deposit on the Duke. Enjoy & ride safe! | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Thank you very much for the thorough and intelligent review. I should be surprised to find any better in the magazines. Unfortunately, it points out the big little problem with our beloved Buells: there are many vee twins out there that are more modern, more powerful, more fun to drive, just a reliable and much more marketable. I just hope that after Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Aprilia, (Rotax), KTM, Morini, Ducati, it will be our turn to have a nice new motor. | ||
| Bomber |
K -- thaks for the real world impression -- sounds like a great scoot -- tell me, with your admittedly brief time in teh saddle, what would you think of a 500+ mile day on it? | ||
| M1combat |
Were you able to put more power down through the turns? I only ask because from what I understand, that's all about the tires and geometry (as long as the weight is pretty close...). It seems that the Duke is a bit more relaxed than the Buell in terms of geometry, so it's unlikely that it will enter, navigate or exit a turn any faster (and most likely slower). Any thoughts on outright corner speed and exit speed? So far I haven't found anything that touches the Buell. Granted, that's a fairly narrow point of view, there's a lot more to a motorcycle, but those traits are my favorite by a good margin... | ||
| Kaudette |
OK - I will give my impressions however as this is where the flaming usually begins, I'll preface this as my opinion & response the the questions... Bomber - the saddle is pretty firm but there is mucho more leg room than on the S or R so I could imagine some long days in the saddle - to be honest, I usually count them in hours as opposed to miles as I almost always will take the "scenic twisty route" to get from A-B - yes, I could easisly see passing a full day in the saddle. The wind protection to 80 felt OK and the position is comfortable. M1 - I wasn't wailing on the bike but what I can tell you is 1 - I felt more comfortable going thru the turns at the same speed on the KTM vs the 12S. Turn-in is a bit more progressive on the KTM compared to the Buell (my impression) - the Buell has a better lean angle and clearance. What is very noticable however is the inertia in the quick flip flop S turns - the Duke feels like it has a lower center of gravity than the Buell and feels to flip more easily - now this could be due to the wider bars, but it is noticeable. As for entry and exit speed - I couldn't really say - but for me, I believe both could carry the same - up to about 8 or 9 / 10th, it would be head to head, perhaps at 9 or 10 / 10ths the Buell would have an advantage - as for me, I try to keep it under 8 / 10th on the road. The Duke has a suprizing amount of grunt in that plant - more than the Buell, so your exit speed should be better on sweepers with the Duke. Again, theoretical nitpicking for a common mortal like myself. I guess the difference I noted could be summed up like this: You "pilot" the Buell You "ride" the Duke | ||
| Ray_maines |
"The surprizing thing about the motor is that you actually have a pretty pronounced engine brake on downshifts or cut-off, which was unexpected given the flywheel and the motor's ability to rev instantly." Actually, not surprising at all ! A lighter flywheel will produce both quicker rev's AND more engine braking effect. A body in motion tends to stay in motion. A heavy crank wants to continue to spin while a light weight unit is much more willing to stop spinning. | ||
| Outrider |
Kaudette...That is the best review I have ever read about a bike coming from a non-motojournalist. Too bad Harley got greedy and F'ed up a joint venture with KTM with an insulting acquisition move. PS: I didn't make that up, it came from quotes from KTM's Head Honcho in Motorcyclist Magazine a few months ago. Have been watching for it to be posted on the BWB, but apparently either nobody else read it or felt free to comment about it. | ||
| 2000m2 |
You should write for a magazine. That was much more pleasant to read than most write-ups in the mags. | ||
| U4euh |
What is the redline on the Duke? Someone had posted a link to the video of the bike in action. Seemed like that bike had a bunch of power spread across a wide band. I remember one part of the vid., the back tire smoking and the guy looked to be going between 30-35 mph. Very nice write up, almost feel like I was there, almost! | ||
| Court |
Well written and the most informative piece of information I've yet gotten on the new KTM. Now I feel like I know something. Thank you. One thing that caught my interest was your discussion of the "angles". I agree. I dig the KTM color schemes and dug the "older" Duke lines and styling. I was eagerly awaiting the roll out of this bike. When it arrived, all angled up, I found myself cooled off. I'd like to ride one. Sounds like they have the power delivery nailed. Thanks again, Court | ||
| Kaudette |
I think the redline is 9500. There's torque everywhere from 3G to redline. Plenty of grunt to lug the thing around and the first 4 ratios are quite close, with 5th and 6th more spaced for the hwy. Ray - thanks for the insight - I should have caught that one. | ||
| Kaudette |
Court - if you can, take one for a spin. They aren't the most pretty "lookers" out there. If they had just stuck to the Duke 1 scheme the bike would be sexy.... My bet is in 12 months we should be seeing some CF half fairings to address that... As for the plant - they certainly got it right - I still can't begin to imagine how anyone could use the LC8 lump for offroad stuff as with all that torque I just don't know how you could get the power to the ground. My prediction is this is going to be a Duc killer on the market - the local dealer has had the bike in store for only a week and has already sold 7. | ||
| Ray_maines |
K: Thanks How did I get a double post with someone else in the middle of it? Is that a BadWeB first? | ||
| Blake |
I guess I'll be the first to take offense to that report... WHAT, NO PICTURES???!!! Great report. I can relate to liking the wasp waisted form. That is one feature I really like about my '97 Cyclone. The '99 and later Buell models lost that feature. I can also relate to the stalling out the bike on take-off. The Buells are good to go darn near right off idle. Every import motorcycle I've ridden needs to be held at 2,500-3,000 rpm when launching to best prevent stalling. But that is the way they are made and supposed to be ridden. Not a flaw, the Buells are just different... in every sense.  Great report. Professional caliber for sure... except for the lack of pictures!!!  V-Twins RULE! | ||
| Buellkowski |
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| Kaudette |
Thanks Blake. As for pics - I'm not that "in" to the stunt stuff, just the twisties. I don't know when they come stateside but when they do, have a spin. My gut tells me they won't be taking share from Buell but will do a number on Monster & Tuono sales. Too bad on the KTM / HD match-up not working out - probably another instance of big egos ruining a great business opportunity... |
