| Author | Message | ||
     Saturnsabian |
Hello! I'm hoping someone can help me. Here are the particulars: 2001 X1, Race ECM, Buell/HD header & muffler, K & N air filter (gutted airbox), ~8K miles Work done: new intake seals (previous leak), injector seals, injectors cleaned and balanced, TPS reset (10x), new plugs, new fuel filter, good battery, new plug wires, repaired ground under tank, new spedo sensor, fresh oil change, cleaned throttle body. The engine temp sensor was replaced a few years ago and checks okay. Fuel pressure is 48-50 PSI, holds steady. continues will cranking. The symptoms: cranks, sometimes starts but stalls within a few seconds. Twist the throttle and is will stall immediately. I can't keep it running at all. Even with carb cleaner to richen it up, sometimes it works a little (I think, hard to tell). The TPS operates smoothly and appears to be accurate. I've bypassed the side stand as well. "Exercised" all the fuses and connectors (CPS, TPS, ECM, etc.) Still no luck. Ambient air temp and engine temp are equal at initial start as well. No current codes. One old O2 code - cleared and hasn't come back, then again, it doesn't run long enough to go into closed loop. Any guidance would be much appreciated. | ||
| Ebutch |
Butterfly-post broke in throttle-body.   | ||
| Saturnsabian |
Butterfly post / throttle plate assembly is in tact. TPS moves smoothly, too. | ||
| Akbuell |
Take the ignition relay out, and replace it with a new one. Try staring it again. If your bike is anything like mine, the next step will be to take a fairly large hammer and use it as intended on the old one. Mine didn't get as bad as yours, but the symptoms were the same, and went away with the new relay. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
After you get this thing running, fix your airbox back or replace it with something else. Gutted X1 boxes don't filter the intake without the snorkel tube to the front chamber. Nothing holds the bottom of the plastic panel together. You can stick your finger right in. (not to mention SAND!) My bike was a demo bike for Boston H-D so it was tarted up with a loud pipe, race ECU, and gutted airbox. I kept having to clean my throttlebody of oily grit while the air filter up front remained perfectly clean. Sorry for the threadjack. This gutting is most likely not related in any way to your issues. The throttle position sensor itself should be looked at though. If one of the three wires is rubbed through to ground, your computer will be extremely confused. | ||
| Mighty_mouse |
Did you check your timing thru the site hole? You can use the ecmspy for timing. | ||
| Saturnsabian |
Timing checked. I get the toggle and its lined up. I'm wondering If there was a issue when I plugged in ECMSPY. The gremlins appeared after the initial communication... I ran a fuel injector test to find the low flow on the front injector (via pressure drop diff). Anyone have the Race ECM map and eeprom to compare values? About the air box - on my "to do" list. the dealer did ht mods and used it for their GM at the time... | ||
| Steveford |
Do the simple stuff: Are you getting spark? Are you getting fuel? Is the spark at the right time? | ||
| Saturnsabian |
I'll check the relay. I went thru them and didn't come up with anything out of the ordinary. | ||
| Hootowl |
"Are you getting spark?" "Is the spark at the right time?" Timing cup? | ||
| Harleyelf |
Does the cam position sensor smell burnt? | ||
| Saturnsabian |
Spark is at the right time and the CPS is okay. Fuel pump triggers as well. Swapped out the fuel pump with a known good one - no change. Tried swapping relays too AKBuell, no different. Reflashed ecm and reset tps, still no difference. Fuel pressure still good with either pump. I'm not sure where to go from here... | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
Try a set of new clean spark plugs and check if they are gapped at the correct distance! | ||
| Firemanjim |
What does Ecm-spy say AFV is and what is TP set to? A vital tool on these injected Buells. | ||
| Saturnsabian |
Afv is set to 100. Tps is 5.3 degrees (5.9%). Zero'd out (throttle plates closed and a slight drag) voltage is .83 when rest is hit. 1.04 or so when I adjust it up. It's smooth when I monitor the operation. I'm really stumped. I've rest the tps a number of times; I'm confident that I'm following the procedure correctly but it sure acts like it needs fuel... Plugs are pretty dark though (just pulled last night). | ||
| Two_seasons |
I call a bad O2 sensor. Replace your O2 sensor! | ||
| Steveford |
Have you verified that the injectors are actually spraying fuel? | ||
| Two_seasons |
Saturn: I based my solution on similar problems I had with my 2000 X1 Lightning. When it was delivered to my home, it would start and run on one cylinder, then an occasional two cylinders, then back to one cylinder, then die. All the while struggling to run at all. After reading a lot of BadWeb posts, it appeared that my O2 sensor was defective. While I was in the area, I also replaced my rear head temp sensor, but I would not do that just yet if I was you. Your O2 sensor is a Bosch. I'll find the part # for you when I get home today. I do know that those O2 sensors are available at many auto parts stores. (Message edited by two_seasons on June 25, 2016) | ||
| Two_seasons |
Here is some info for you. I got mine from Al and Joanne at American Sport Bike. Unfortunately, they are shut down. You will need to go to a good auto parts store and get the following O2 sensor... Single wire Narrow Band For fuel injection IIRC, it is a direct swap to a Ford Motor Company part number. Steve | ||
| Firemanjim |
So when you look at the screen monitoring the engine--ie-- tach, AFV etc the AFV reads 100? And engine temp sensors says what? If your plugs are looking black it sounds like overly rich condition, and if they get fouled Buells are notoriously sensitive to this and I just toss the plugs and install new ones.Spark good on both plugs? And do not worry about the O2 sensor as even if bad it will not affect startup like that. | ||
| Saturnsabian |
Put new plugs in, drained gas. Put new gas in, still same issue. I don't get it. | ||
| Saturnsabian |
If the o2 was bad, id get driveablity issues in closed loop, which I'm still not ruling out. Only this is open loop and start up. When it idles for a few seconds and you twist the throttle, it stall immediately. | ||
| Purpony |
as stated above in one of the posts, did you verify the fuel injectors are actually spraying? Your issue sounds like the one i had. I replaced my temp sensor, ecm, o2 sensor, plugs, wires, checked fuel pressure, checked spark, checked timing.... My bike would crank, start, and then stall. Over and over again. I pulled my fuel injectors and once removed, plugged them back in and hung them in a container. Cranked the bike over and they would spray for a second and then stop even when i continued to crank it over. I ended up replacing my cam timing sensor and the the injectors now spray like they should. Put the fuel injectors back in and the bike starts right. cam timing sensor part number - 32400-94A (Message edited by purpony on July 03, 2016) | ||
| Harleyelf |
Cam position sensor, that's the item that can fail, throw no codes, and make your injectors and plugs do strange things. | ||
| Kalali |
To me, it sounds like a corrupted fuel/timing map. Reload the ECM with a known good Race map and start from there. (Message edited by kalali on July 13, 2016) | ||
| Two_seasons |
I had the same issues with the 2000 X1. I replaced both the temperature sensor along with the O2 sensor. You said you thought the temp sensor was good. Maybe it is failing. Look up the X1 files out on the web. Great info there too | ||
| Firemanjim |
AL LIGHTON MANTRA-- if in doubt--replace engine temp sensor! | ||
| Saturnsabian |
Thanks guys. I did try a reflash on the ECM with a race map however, no change. I have to believe that the cam sensor is operating correctly since all the outputs are working i.e. fuel pump trigger, injectors firing, spark, and ECMSpy toggle aligned with the timing mark. Engine temp sensor was replaced not to long ago and measurements and readings look and test okay. I have an S3 as well and my feeling is that there was an issue with both once I hooked up ECMSpy. I have gone to great lengths of wiping out the operating system on the laptop, and reinstalling ECMSpy, but yielding the same results. The S3 is a stock ECM. Does anyone have proper maps of reflash technique? I assume I am doing it correctly after reading all the info on Badweb that I could find on it. I think its more than a coincidence that I have to wounded Buells after trying ECMSpy. |
