| Author | Message | ||
     B1rdman |
After changing the crank seal that was blowing other seals, I took the bike for a ride. No leaks. Great! The next few days I ride it some more and start to notice some oil collecting on top of the starter, and down in that valley area.. I look and see that it appears to be coming from the rear rocker box. I still have the stock boxes on there. I know about the XB conversion that I suppose I could dump more money into getting and doing since I have to change the gasket anyways. The issue is...there's a reason for it to have suddenly start leaking. I'm guessing excess crank pressure or oil pressure. I know back when a shop was taking a look at it, they said the check valve or whatever under the oil filter housing had been stuck and causing "high oil pressure" and that they "un-stuck" it. I'm guessing it's bad or leaking? Bottom line, I'm tired of chasing the tail of this problem and want to fix the source of all of this once and for all. No I'm not going to sell it and yes I'm going to ask many questions. lol | ||
| Hootowl |
It started leaking because the stock paper gaskets aren't worth, to borrow a phrase, the paper they're printed on. HD makes metal ones now, or you can go aftermarket, cometic etc. You do not have to do an XB conversion to use the newer metal gaskets. | ||
| B1rdman |
Thanks Hootowl, so is it merely coincidence that it started leaking after fixing the crank seal? | ||
| Blackm2 |
What Hoot said. There is no problem here other than they are probably the original crap gaskets. It's an easy fix, you can do it. | ||
| Hootowl |
Probably. The heads are vented, so unless the vents are plugged, which is unlikely, it was probably just their time to go. When you take the rocker boxes off (yes, do the front while you're at it) and see the gasket, you'll know what I'm talking about, and why the aftermarket offered metal replacements that the mother ship eventually adopted. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Probably went right on schedule... stock paper rocker box gaskets on a tuber go like clockwork, around 6000 for the rear hotter head, 9000 miles for the front head. Your failed crank seal was ahead of schedule though... | ||
| B1rdman |
I think the crank seal was due to over-tight primary chain and belt. Both were too tight. The belt was scary tight with no one on it, and the previous owner was a 220lb guy who put 15k miles on the bike. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hope your 5th gear drive assembly survived.  | ||
| B1rdman |
I did make a mistake I think? I filled the oil tank to the halfway mark with the bike cold and been sitting for a month. It was also drained (from the tank and primary, didn't take off oil filter). I think I remember someone saying earlier that if I was having sumping issues (which signs suggested I did" that it could cause a problem? And what do you mean, Bill? Could you elaborate? (Message edited by b1rdman on July 30, 2013) | ||
| Harleyelf |
Ouch. That will definitely tear your seal up. If he ran the final drive belt too tight also (you should be able to press down on the belt and touch the swing arm), your drive sprocket shaft seal is on borrowed time. You'll know it's gone when your swing arm is dripping oil that seems to come from the wheel axle, just on the right side. The wind blows it there. Rider load has nothing to do with primary chain tightness. A lot to do with final drive belt adjustment and drive pulley seal failure. That was me with the sumping comment, Wes. You did the right thing. If you fill the oil tank while the "air space" around the crankshaft is filled with oil, the oil in the motor has no where to go except out the rocker vents or through the side of the oil tank. Had you fully filled the oil tank and then started the motor, you would be describing some grim symptoms. (Message edited by harleyelf on July 30, 2013) | ||
| Oldog |
The 5th gear assm is a set of needle bearings inside of the end of the output shaft stub, That plastic cap you replaced earlier fits the outer end keeping dirt out and oil in, the needles are splash lubed. The OE crank seals tend to fail at about 20-30 K miles, I cant say on chain tension its a known fact that the belt being over tight can damage the tranny or the rear wheel. The rocker box gaskets are considered by some here on this board as a rite of passage | ||
| B1rdman |
The drive sprocket shaft seal WAS blown btw, which was my first ever indicator that I had issues since it coated my whole rear swingarm and tire in oil on a mountain run with a bunch of liter sportbikes. I can't believe I didn't eat pavement that day because it wasn't until we were done and stopped to let everyone else catch up that I saw the oil everywhere. I was leaning the bike pretty far too.. I only meant that rider load meant something in terms of the drive belt, not primary chain.. Glad I didn't mess up the re-oiling procedure. lol | ||
| B1rdman |
"Rite of passage" makes it sound like a tough job..lol Can't be worse than the crank seal though, right? Right? :P | ||
| Oldog |
"Rite of passage" most of the old timers had to do it at one point ... not difficult, BUT you must do it correctly... | ||
| Reepicheep |
If the 5th gear drive assembly starts to go, you will hear it whirring or hooting at idle (even in neutral). It will stick in gear also. If you ever have the belt off, you can put it in neutral and spin the secondary drive front belt sprocket that sticks out of the tranny. It should be clean and smooth. If it's crunchy, those needle bearings that the transmission output shaft ride on are crushed. The good news is that you can get the tranny out of a tuber without splitting cases. | ||
| B1rdman |
When the front belt sprocket oil seal was changed, the shop confirmed that the bearings were good. | ||
| Harleyelf |
And then they set the belt too tight? They always do. You have two thirds of the 12-year de-leaking procedure done. Your next leak will be not from the left, nor from the right, but directly under the motor oil will drip from the shock absorber. It is motor oil. When the shock leaks it does it at the front by its reservoir. The oil lines from the oil bag to the oil pump and back run in a high heat zone. Mine failed at ten years and thirty thousand miles. It is regular automotive oil line. | ||
| Reepicheep |
And it's worth saying at this point, I do really miss my M2. It was a needy machine at times, but a very satisfying one to own. | ||
| Kalali |
The rocker box leak, if the gaskets are still OEM, is probably coincidental but the tight belt combined with the weight of the rider and 15K miles ridden that way shaved a good bit of life from the moving parts in or around the 5th gear output shaft not mentioning the rear wheel bearings. I sort of lost track of all the work you've done on the bike so far but make sure the primary chain is adjusted properly -3/4" slack at the loosest spot, done at room temperature. Otherwise you'll be looking at more carnage inside the primary case. Its a shame you have to deal with so much crap mostly because the PO's incompetence. Just make sure going forward you do things by the book so you don't have to come back and do it over. | ||
| B1rdman |
I've also noticed signs now that it was "pieced back together" that I wish I had seen when I purchased it 4 months ago. If I had had the knowledge about these bikes now, back then, then I would have never gotten it. But I still would have bought an X1 because I absolutely love these "muscle bikes." I went back and adjusted the primary to 3/4" slack at the loosest spot in the morning before I went out to ride. The belt is also able to touch the swingarm with no one on it. I've been making sure to measure thrice before doing anything to it.  | ||
| Kalali |
I agree there is nothing out there that even comes close to the visceral experience a properly sorted X1 offers. Unlike some of the luckier folks on the board with more forgiving spouses, I'm only "allowed" one bike just because I have "too many" hobbies. That said, I can't tell you how many times I've been tempted to switch and get another bike, some even a lot more expensive, and I found none as satisfying as my X1. Once you get all the mechanical stuff fixed we can then sit back and work on getting your fuel maps tuned. That's a whole another story... | ||
| B1rdman |
That would be great. It's already got a Race ECM in it, and I have the software and cable to tune it. | ||
| Buellistic |
If you do not set the STATIC TIMING, you are wasting your time tuning your engine !!! | ||
| Harleyelf |
I hope you meant "tightest spot" for the primary tension. If it doesn't slap the case or bind it is good. | ||
| B1rdman |
Can anybody hazzard a guess as to why I'm only getting half of my normal MPG? The only thing I somewhat notice as different is that my idle lope seems to be at double time. Idle rpm is still around 850rpm but instead of "1--2, 1--2" it's "1-2,-1-2,1-2." Make sense? Could just be my imagination since it's been a few months since I've ridden it. However I used to get about 240 or so miles per tank and now I'm getting about 130. | ||
| Harleyelf |
Someone stole fuel while you were working on it? Is your emergency brake on? We know your primary chain isn't too tight, but that can do it. Try loosening it just a little bit. Seriously, if your primary chain is right then you have a fuel mapping issue. You should get close to fifty miles per gallon. Got ECMSpy and a cable? | ||
| B1rdman |
Yes sir I do. Want me to screenshot a picture of my fuel maps? After I filled up the tank the other day I reset the trip. That's how I know it's odd that after 140 miles or so my light came on (and confirmed visually that I was low). | ||
| Kalali |
"3/4" slack at the loosest spot" I apologize. Meant to say Tightest spot. Thanks Harleyelf for catching my error. | ||
| Harleyelf |
It was in two consecutive posts, one from you and one from Wes. If indeed that was the setting, it could be the cause of his low mileage. | ||
| B1rdman |
I'll double check today. |
