| Author | Message | ||
     Swamp2 |
I almost don't want to ask as I know this kind of request comes up often - but is there a reference out here that chronicles the changes for the different models by year? I'm currently tuber shopping - probably going to go after either an S3 or M2 (actually an S3T is at the top of the list) - and it would be nice to have a comprehensive listing to look at so I can make an assessment of relative desirability of the various years. Thanks! | ||
| Phelan |
Namely, the '97-'98 M2s and S3s had PM front/brembo rear brakes and more docile Sportster oriented motors, as well as over-the-frame exhausts, while the '99-'02 M2s/S3s had better performing motors, under-the-frame exhaust, Nissin front/rear brakes, and S3s had DDFI. the '99-'02s also had wider bodywork. | ||
| Swamp2 |
Any reason to stay away from the early FI bikes? Did they have any teething issues? | ||
| Phelan |
If you can get ECMspy and the cable for it, it can be a huge help and make most of the teething problems a non-issue. Really, any tuber is gonna want/need minor tweaks constantly anyway, so it's more a matter of what you're looking for out of the bike and find one closest to that at the start. Do you want speed or sleek sexy body lines? That's why I have a '95 S2 and not an '02 X1. I still want speed later though, so I'm working on that... | ||
| Bartimus |
Just get one of each, you can NEVER have too many Buells!  | ||
| Swamp2 |
Well, I already have an xb12Ss and an 1125cr, so you won't get an argument from me... | ||
| Ratbuell |
+1, Bart (well...+6 anyway). Gotta get a full family portrait, but our garage houses: 95 S2 with touring gear (wide and narrow bags, lowers, drop pegs) 98 S1W 02 M2L (hers) 06 UlyX 09 Blast (hers) 09 CR It's like horsepower - too much/too many is *almost* enough!  | ||
| Ratbuell |
To be constructive, though...: - 98-earlier bikes (except S1W, which was the first Thunderstorm engine) had a plain ol' Sporty motor. Later thunderstorm bikes were 101hp-rated. - 98-earlier bikes also had the small/narrow tank, except S2 which had 5 gallons with a painted cover - 99-later bikes all had Thunderstorm engines. Silver engines/jugs with black heads (non-highlighted) is the giveaway. - 99 was the start of DDFI. AVOID THE POWER COMMANDER. If a bike has one, rip it out and sell it to buy an ECMspy cable. - M2's all had 'regular' forks (they were the "economy" tuber, they're also all carbureted). S2, S1, S3, X1 all had inverted forks. - The S1 has what is truly a "one cheek seat". The early M2 (97-98) is similar. 99-up M2 is super-cushy, great seat. - M2L is just that - LOW. Put the balls of your feet on the pegs. DAMHIK, lol. Oh...and if it's a tuber? It ROCKS. My Uly and CR are great bikes, but neither of them speak to me the way the tubers do. (Message edited by ratbuell on April 04, 2010) | ||
| Swamp2 |
So, M2's never had FI? And there weren't any notable differences between 99-02 on either of these models? | ||
| 1313 |
98-earlier bikes (except S1W, which was the first Thunderstorm engine) had a plain ol' Sporty motor. Slight adjustment. The 1995 S2 was the only Buell to use a 'standard' Sportster motor. 1996 S1 had Lightning heads and cams. 1997 M2 had the Lightning heads but not the cams. 1997 S3 & S3-T had the heads and cams. I had unbelievable fuel economy when my S2 motor had Lightning heads and cams. 58 MPG around town and 63 MPG on trips. I 'made the sacrifice' mileage-wise going to the Thunderstorm heads and pistons but still get over 50 MPG on trips. That about sums it up for a brief summary, 1313 | ||
| Jayvee |
IMHO, the S3T is the best value, as long as it comes with the saddlebags. I've seen these for sale for not too much. Can do about anything; tour, sport, commute, set off car alarms, whatever you want. The complete package. I have an M2, but mainly because that's the deal I found, and can't afford/house two bikes right now. | ||
| Nallac |
Bartimus, nice Garage full there.... just need to add a X1 and S1W.. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
No the M2 never came with FI. There are small differences from year to year on the 99-02 on the m2 but I do not believe any of them are major other than the ignition system for 02 (I think) | ||
| Swamp2 |
Guys, thanks for all the input. This has been very helpful.. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If you're going to buy a used X1, I would suggest a higher mileage example. (NO. Mine is NOT for sale) Most of my X1 problems were found in the first year/20,000 miles. The miles 20,000 to 45,000 NOTHING broke. (Then stuff did break but nothing terrible) | ||
| Kalali |
I would say a 2002 M2 or X1 is a good option mainly because the newer models tend to have all the "product improvement" changes. On the other end of the spectrum, a great choice would be an early S1 if you are the romantic type. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Still lots of mis-information in this thread. None if it is really SUPER important but incorrect non-the-less. Pre-1996 bikes are basicly Sportster motors 1996-97 bikes upgrades to the motor (I believe cams and pistons only). M2 was released in 1997 and remained virtually unchanged throughout it's life (with the exception of the low seat model and O2 sensors). 1998 Thunderstorm motor released in the S1W and S3/T models only. Retained the pistons and cams plus added redesigned heads with larger valves and larger exhaust outlet. 1999 was the first year for EFI. Also the year that X1 was released. All bikes with the exception of the M2 have the Thunderstorm motor and fuel injection. What does all this mean....nothing much. Find a tuber that you like and ride it. | ||
| Phelan |
'96-'98 S1s, S3s, and maybe M2s had lightning heads, which are basically 1200 heads with extra material to bump compression to 10:1. '99-'02 M2s did have Thunderstorm motors but with more docile cams to keep the midrange high. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
Phelan...I know your not a noobie, but you're incorrect. The lightning motors were in all the tube frame bikes produced after 1996. The "Thunderstorm" heads and new cams were add to the S3/T and S1W in 1998. The remaining S3/T & X1 models received the lightning heads and Thunderstorm parts (hench the 2.5" header pipes). The M2 retained the lightning motor but never recieved the Thunderstorm heads (hench the 2" header pipes). | ||
| Scm2 |
I have a 2000 m2 and it has Thunderstorm heads. 99 and up have thunderstorms. You can tell by over the frame exhaust vs. under the frame(non Thunderstorm bikes)exhaust. | ||
| Phelan |
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/buell/1999- buell-m2-cyclone-13939.html | ||
| Cyclonemick |
Wrong! My 00 M2 came with Thunderstorm heads! | ||
| Buellish |
Brankin,"The 1995 S2 was the only Buell to use a 'standard' Sportster motor." I thought my '96 S2T had a standard Sporster motor. Weren't the S2's the last Buells to use PM calipers? | ||
| Littlebuggles |
All 99+ model years have the Thunderstorm heads introduced on the 98 S1W (which had diff cams). All 99+ model years run the same exhaust with a 2.5" collector that is routed under the frame at the rear header (the S3/X1 require a O2 sensor for the FI, so there's a bung on the rear header for those bikes, but the tubing is the same). If you are looking specifically at M2's the 02 model year is the most sorted with updated shift linkage, stronger primary tensioner (came on most 2000+ models) plus updated rear shock and ECM vs ignition control module (don't know why that was changed, never had trouble with mine). But those are all pretty easy fixes on earlier model years if you find a 99-01 you like, and those changes may have been done by the previous owner. I forget which year got the tach kit as standard parts, 2001 I believe, previous years only had a speedometer. I'm sure I've missed a few points but those are the major issues I recall checking/fixing on my 2000 M2. Thing I understand about the M2 is it runs stock Sporty cams, making the power output different than the S3 and X1's. | ||
| Phelan |
The '95-'96 S2s both used stock Sporty motors but with Euro spec gearing. The '96 had an updated 8 pin style ignition that is bit better running. The PM calipers were on all the Buells '95 through '97 and I believe '98 as well, and the same bikes had Brembo rear calipers. SOME '99-'02 M2s did have 2" collectors, while some were 2.5". Some of each of those were black and others stainless. No one so far has came up with a diffinitive answer why that I've seen. Both Euro and State models have found each variant. | ||
| Swamp2 |
Well, I guess I'm glad I asked the question, this turned out to be a bit less clear than I'd thought... I'm giving serious consideration to a '99 S3, which sounds like thunderstorm motor (heads & cams), EFI, 2.5" pipes if I've got this right. And, it doesn't sound like there's any significant changes on the S3's from this year out through the end of the run... | ||
| Kmbuell |
Isn't it amazing how little we know, how quick we are to proclaim our expertise and ignore folks who built the bikes. Maybe Court will chime in now with a "remind me to tell you" answer too! There are a few good answers in here, there are a bunch of total bs answers in here. Hopefully Swamp2 will figure out which is which. Kevin | ||
| Cyclonemick |
ALso in 2000 M2's came with steel braided lines! At least mine did! | ||
| Kyrocket |
All this being said you're still looking at a bike that is 10+ years old and I know that mine doesn't have all it's stock parts on it. Find one you like, ride it and keep this information in the back of your mind to ask some educated questions; has it had any engine work, is the carb/exhaust original, how many owners has it had? Stuff like that will help you out. Also if you ask some specific questions they'll know you're legit and not try to pull the wool over your eyes. | ||
| Buellish |
I see by my above post that I think I have a Sporster motor.I guess that is a little less potent than a "Real Sportster motor".  My fingers type faster than my eyes can spell check. |
