| Author | Message | ||
     Vfrf2 |
When I turn my key switch on, I have now power...no dash lights, nothing. Almost as if the battery were not connected. Here is a chain of events. My fuel gauge came on, I stopped to get gas about 3 miles from my destination. About a mile from from where I'm heading too, it started running rough, sputtering. I got to where I was going, turned it off. About an hour later, I turn the key switch and nothing...no dash lights, no power...period. I check fuses under the seat, connections on the battery are tight, battery is getting 12.8 volts on a volt meter... I know that the key switch is a common problem, I bought one...a friend with more electrical knowledge than I have came buy and started looking at the manual...doing basic trouble shooting, circuit going to the key switch seemed to be ok. He ran tests on both switches, they seem to be doing what they should be doing. Checked the relays next to the fuse box, they seemed ok. We are stumped...any suggestions would be appreciated at this point. | ||
| Tdman77 |
I know the grounding strap on the swingarm has been a problem for some. Check here: http://www.saintjohn.nbcc.nb.ca/Marriott/x1/ They have some good info on different problems and what to do to fix them. | ||
| Vfrf2 |
I'll take a look at it when I get home tonight. I'm so frustrated with this thing. If the problem isn't resolved by the end of the weekend, I might just part it out and cut my losses. | ||
| Kalali |
I am sure it is very frustrating but I don't such a drastic measure is warranted. Hang in there and someone here will help you out. | ||
| Brinnutz |
Do you happen to be in an area that had a lot of rain? These are similar to the issues my buddy had when he had gotten gas from a station that was underwater (it was a tank of about half water/half fuel). But anyways, it's something to think about. | ||
| Gowindward |
Being a mechanical guy myself, and know enough about electrical stuff to be dangerous to myself, so when it comes to electrical problems I use the KISS method and double even triple check things that I actually think are okay. Sound like you are on the right path with digging out the multimeter and checking voltages. You are the right track with checking voltage at the battery, but keep following that path by checking voltages along the starter circuit. If the key switch is bad it's easy enough to disconnect the key switch and jumper across the plug going to it and jump start the bike. If it works then you know it'e the key switch...if not keep looking. These bikes really have fairly simple systems that are not to large. Also check the connections at the main circuit breaker, and voltages there too. | ||
| Vfrf2 |
Since the Buell manual is more or less worthless due to the fact that it doesn't have a schematic in it, unlike any other manual I've ever owned, where can I find one? Or is that going to cost me even more? This bike has never been ridden in rain, never had a hose taken to it to wash it. It's been wiped down by hand and kept spotless(at least until I bought it in November).It's always been kept in a garage. I purchased it from the original owner who was fanatic about keeping it up. He even has the receipt showing where a new ignition switch was installed. Well, something crapped out between the time I bought it and the less than 25 miles I've been able to ride it since owning it. It seems I'm looking at a few hours of electrical troubleshooting. Ah, not my forte either. I could probably have the engine and various other components off and ready for shipping by the time I'd figure out the problem, if I figure out the problem. (Message edited by vfrf2 on March 27, 2009) | ||
| Jramsey |
You seem more determined to part it out than fixing a simply electrical problem. | ||
| Vfrf2 |
This is a bike I've spent a bit of money on (by my standards). I've only been able to ride it 25 miles before it dies on me. WTF? No, it's not much of an impression. The only thing I'm determined to do is not have the problem again. If I can fix it so that it never leaves me along the road again, fine. If I don't fix it and part it out...that's another way to insure it won't happen again. Sorry that I'm not staying focused on the issue at hand, and ranting more than anything, but this is frustrating beyond words. You say it's a simple electrical problem, for someone who can "get around" doing electrical troubleshooting, it's a little more of a chore. When I have a problem with a bike, I always pray it's not something electrical...cuz I suck at it. How's that for honesty? (Message edited by vfrf2 on March 27, 2009) | ||
| Preybird1 |
+1 on jumper the ignition, It's a piece of cake only 3 wire's to mess with. Sound's like the ignition switch is bad | ||
| Akbuell |
Take a deep breath, and back slowly away from the motorcycle. Have a cup of coffee, relax, please. Just kidding. Page 4-92 of the service manual has a great diagram of the ignition and starting circuit. Also the the manual has good trouble shooting trees. With 12+v at the battery, take both battery cables off and ohm them. Pull on the connectors, to make sure they are really connected to the cable. Since you appear to be getting volts into and out of the ign switch, it is time to follow it through the system. The factory service manual is the key tool for this job. Don't give up, the problem can be solved. And FWIW, it usually involves a simple fix. | ||
| Gowindward |
Allen. You bought a Buell...they are one of the most wonderful pieces of motorcycle art a young man can own. If you never get stranded by a motorbike (any motorbike) then well you will not have ridden very much. It happens! They are also an mechanical & electrical device and they do have problems from time to time, they all do. If you want help with the bike this is the place to be. Their are literally hundreds of years of mechanical and electrical experience here willing to help the right student. If you are really interested in parting the bike out then post some photos up in the classifieds and I'm sure someone will take the bike off your hands whole and you won't even have to waste your time with taking it apart. | ||
| Jramsey |
Honestly, would you part out your car or pick up if it had an electrical problem? I've owned over 50 motorcycles and 20+ cars an trucks and none of them were ever 100% trouble free. As the old saying go's "if it has tits or tires sooner or later it's gunna cause trouble." | ||
| Gowindward |
"....later it's gunna cause trouble." LMAO Along the lines it's better to rent! (Message edited by gowindward on March 27, 2009) | ||
| Oldog |
Sorry I'm just catching this and have not read it all, 1. the key switch 2. battery cables 3. main circuit breaker 4. Ignition relay circuit clutch interlock, side stand, diode sorry that you cant make sense of the wiring diagram I have to wear 2 pairs of glasses to read the thing but its complete and seems to be accurate. If you want help please keep posting I will happily try to help you if I can. take a big deep breath and relax, please don't part out the bike till you ride it some I can understand your frustration I have those moments they pass as you hit the starter button and hear the brute rumble to life .. it is suffering from either neglect or wear JR I have your disk I have not sent it yet I am sorry about the delay its the three things that I have that are short, memory, attention span and ..... what were we talking about? (Message edited by oldog on March 27, 2009) | ||
| Vfrf2 |
Guys...I really do appreciate the input. I got out of the office, took a walk and calmed down a bit. I'm partly frustrated because I haven't had a chance to ride the bike that much, then it takes a dump. I think anyone would be a little uptight if in the same situation. Anyway, back to the task at hand. I was talking to my friend who was helping me out with the problem last night. Here is what he did and a question he posted elsewhere: What happened is we removed the connector for the ignition switch. I checked continuity on the "stock" switch and compared it to the new switch, they were identical. The manual confirmed proper operation. I then looked at the ignition switch connector on the main wiring harness. Two pins were shorted together. There were three total, one from +12V from the battery, one for P and one for IGN. The pins for P and IGN were shorted together. Now I don't know if they are supposed to be that way, but I doubt it. When everything is connected, and you turn the key to IGN, the voltage measured across the battery terminals is only a couple volts, meaning 12V is shorted to ground somewhere. Turn the ignition off, and the battery shows +12.9V. Any input? Thanks! | ||
| Limitedx1 |
I feel your pain......while changing oil on the x1 i started it up and my buddy who was sitting watching me said is that bolt supposed to be walking out like that? it just so happened to be the front hanger head bolt, which i grabbed and pulled out half of it to show the sheared end lol. a few days later and tons of research on bolts and many calls to dealers got me a new set, along with having to drill the other half of the bolt out...... | ||
| Vfrf2 |
I just got home from work, came out to the garage. Connected the battery again, wiggled some wires just about where the oil tank is. Turned the ignition key to the "P" position. Odometer came on, turn signals will work. Nothing at "IGN" though. I guess it's time to start physically inspecting the wiring itself, for any points where it might be rubbing somewhere to cause a short? Times like these make me appreciate my ZRX even more... (Message edited by vfrf2 on March 27, 2009) | ||
| Akbuell |
Glad you had a chance to calm down. I know the frustration of not having something work. Given the further information, two thoughts: 1. The battery may have taken a dump. Internally shorted thing. Try taking it to an auto parts place for a load test. 2. Above the battery, on the bottom side of the frame, is the 30 amp master circuit breaker. I believe it automatically re-sets when it trips. Make sure the wires are firmly connected, ect. Don't know about the P and IGN wires. Will have to research that further when I can get to a magnifying glass to read the wiring diagram. FWIW, the bike did run for a while in that condition, so that May Not be the problem. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Sleez |
make sure to check the diodes as well. | ||
| Vfrf2 |
Ok, educate me on the diodes. Where can I find them and how to I test them? I'll probably hit the manual after I read this and find out what I need to know. But, humor me and post...  Thanks! | ||
| Sleez |
here's what they look like;   the little modules with the "arrow" on them. they limit current flow in one direction, if you pull them out one at a time, make sure they go back the same direction as they came out! use an ohmeter to check continuity in both directions. one way should read infinite or "OL", the other way should read like a short, approx 0 ohms. there is a whole lot of diode theory i could go into, not needed. i am not sure if they could cause the exact symptom as you describe, they are part of the starter interlock circuit. something to check at least. if i had to guess long distance, assuming the battery connections/grounds and voltage are ok, i would say; 1) ign switch 2) master circuit breaker 3) relays (Message edited by sleez on March 27, 2009) | ||
| Oldog |
VFR: X1 main harness passes over the oil bag, to the area along the left frame rail, the main power cables come from the battery and go to the starter there under the bag, the ground is down there too the normal operation is as you indicate for the key switch, the p pin is parking, then the ign is the ignition enable, good catch on the wiggle test, I will be off board most of the weekend but I will try and check back stay kewl, your going to major enjoy the beast when sorted. | ||
| Vfrf2 |
Still working it. When I turn the key on, no odometer shows. But, when I turn the turn signals on, the flasher relay starts to kick in. It's hard to describe what it sounds like so, here goes. It sounds like a Geiger counter that is rough at first...then it gets smoother. After it smooths out to a steady tone...right at that point the turn signal comes on. Almost as if the power is increasing to give it enough juice to run the turn signal, which it does. At this point, I turn the key to IGN, it does dead...I can repeat the process over and over again. I've cleaned the terminals that you all mentioned as well. | ||
| Sleez |
will the horn sound? will the brake lights light? sounding like a short from the ign circuit, especially if the voltage at the battery drops! either the battery is dead, or you have a short. i'd try either load testing the battery or at least charging it up fully, then retest. you could also try jumping from a car battery that is in the garage? wouldn't recommend using a running vehicle, cuz if you do have a short and hit it with a lot of amperage, you could seriously melt something... then again... you'd know right where the problem is.... smoke will tell you. hang in there, you'll get it! (Message edited by sleez on March 27, 2009) | ||
| Akbuell |
Yep, battery is failing under load. The clicking sound is the bi-metal strip in the flasher heating up. Finally gets to operating temp and starts to work. You have 12+V at the terminals, but no amps. That's why everything dies when you go to IGN. Hook up a known good battery, and try it. If you are on the original, that is the place to look, as 5 yrs is about their useful life. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Vfrf2 |
Ok, now that I know I have a fully charged battery I'm going to hit it again this morning. Is there any way to load test a battery at home vs. taking it somewhere to have it done? | ||
| Zac4mac |
If you have a voltmeter and a headlight bulb.. Measure the voltage no load. Connect the headlight to the battery, the voltage should drop, but slowly(.1-.3 volts per second sounds close..) If the voltage drops significantly faster, the battery is toast. Zack | ||
| Brokeneck |
VF -- We all feel your pain. I bought my S3 as a new leftover and it took a good year to sort out. It still let's me down occasionally. You have to realize you basically own a hand-built hot rod -- not a Japanese appliance. I went out an bought a new Yamahs FJR Appliance which is always ready to ride. However I still have my Buell -- it's even more fun to own now -- when it needs wrenching it's more like a challenge or a hobby -- and when I get it running again it's much more fun to ride than the boring FJR. When the Buell fires up, there is a satisfaction in knowing that your patience has provided this ride. Of course it's easier to adopt this aditude when you have another bike ready to ride when the Buell is being finicky. The fact is if you want to own a tuber -- you have to love to tinker -- | ||
| Vfrf2 |
Friday evening, I threw a battery charger on it at about 6 pm, set the battery charger at 2 amps. When I checked the charger yesterday morning at about 6 am, the battery charger had indicated it was still charging, showing about a 75% charge. When I came back to it at noon, it was still showing the same thing. I disconnected the battery charger, connected my voltmeter to the battery terminals and it showed 10.5 volts. Last night at about 7, I had a ready of 10.8 volts. From noon till the time I took the last reading, the battery charger had not been connected. Sound like it could be the battery if it's not getting to 12 + volts on a charge? |
