| Author | Message | ||
     Sanchez |
So I was making the left turn right before Stone Mountain Harley-Davidson on my way to the monthly 3% meeting, and my bike wouldn't go into gear. I kicked it down into what felt like first, let out the clutch, and got nothing. Some more vigorous kicking and rocking finally got it into first, and I made it to the dealership parking lot, but I couldn't get into any higher gears. Here are the symptoms: - I can get into first, but it's difficult - Other gears don't engage at all, just false neutral - The bike won't go into actual neutral. It skips past it. The N light comes on briefly on the way by. One of the techs at the dealership suggested I might need to adjust the shifter pawl. It looked pretty easy in the manual, but now that I have the primary off, I see that the clutch is blocking the piece I need to get at. Before I yank the clutch, does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be wrong? | ||
| Patrickh |
sounds like a dentent plate/shifter pawl/shift-drum-pin issue. only way to find out is to pull the clutch basket and inspect the parts. there is a notoriously fragile c-clip in there that is fond of popping off. as well, the locating pins on the shifter drum sometimes work themselves a little proud. | ||
| 1313 |
From the description it sounds like Patrickh is on the right track. However, Sanchez's bike should have the latest, greatest equipment on his bike. This would, however, still mean that the locating pins on the shifter drum could work themselves proud. The funny thing was, when I bought a replacement shifter drum for my S2 last summer the locating pins on that shifter drum were not separate pieces. I don't know if the replacement parts are all like that now or if it was only for S2's. It would be a lot more expensive to make without separate pins, so I could easily see later (production) parts having separate pins to lower costs from the ones with integral pins. 1313 | ||
| Xldevil |
sounds like a dentent plate/shifter pawl/shift-drum-pin issue. only way to find out is to pull the clutch basket and inspect the parts. there is a notoriously fragile c-clip in there that is fond of popping off. as well, the locating pins on the shifter drum sometimes work themselves a little proud. I second that. Ralph | ||
| Sanchez |
Thanks, guys. Things are proceeding apace since I clued in to the fact that I can take out the clutch basket assembly without removing the disks. I made a sprocket lock bar out of a piece of aluminum. I bought it at Lowe's, then cut it down to length (4" x 2" x 1/8") with a sawzall.  The engine sprocket nut came off without much drama using a 2' breaker bar plus another foot or so of cheater pipe. The nut is probably metric, but it's close enough to 1 1/8" to work without slipping. Now I finally have an excuse to buy some snap ring pliers for the clutch, so I'm off to Sears. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Godspeed!  | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Small world dude, here is the pic of my bike today  Now how do I get the stator off? | ||
| Sanchez |
> here is a notoriously fragile c-clip in there that is fond of popping off Ah ha! Look what I found lurking around my drain plug:  Sure enough, the detent plate retaining clip is broken. How does this plate look? Are the edges of the holes purposefully beveled, or are they just worn?  | ||
| Smoke |
make sure you compress that clutch spring prior to taking the snap ring out. clutch nut has l/h threads and you need to lock the inner and outer clutch hubs together along with the engine sprocket. then both stator and clutch hub can be removed. get a manual, the right tools and some help if this is your first time. good luck, tim | ||
| Sanchez |
Now how do I get the stator off? Do you already have the engine sprocket/rotor off? After I got the sprocket and main shaft nuts off, the whole sprocket/chain/clutch assembly slid right off with a little pulling. You have to overcome the pull of the magnets on the inside of the rotor. After the rotor is off, the manual says you just have to disconnect the wiring and remove (and discard) the 4 torx head bolts holding the stator on. | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I don't need to pull the stator, I just need to get the sprocket off the motor and didn't want to crush any wires or windings. My bike had the same clip problem and the detent up against the clutch basket about 7,000 miles ago. I got the detent back on and a new clip but the condition is the same now, hard to find neutral and false neutrals, clunky shifting. The spring plate in my bike broke and that led to my current disassembly. The clutch went well, with the right tools it's the easiest clutch I ever worked on. When I saw the detent plate I decided to go with the Baker kit, enough is enough! I will gently pull the sprocket and thanks! Den | ||
| Patrickh |
I would characterize your detent plate as having abnormal wear. I would replace that part with a new one...while you have it open... | ||
| Xldevil |
Sanchez.Engine sprocket nut is not metric, I can give you 100%. Ralph | ||
| Djkaplan |
My bike is in the same state. I was replacing the stator anyway so I decided to yank the trans and install a Baker slick-shift drum so I wouldn't have to worry about the pins and circlip falling out. | ||
| M1a65 |
Hey Dan, How's it going? The Baker kit sounds like the way to go. Matt, I usually jam a 2X4 into the gear to bind it up when loosening/tightening sprocket gears. The wood absorbs the shock and doesn't mess up the teeth. Gimmie a call if you need a hand. | ||
| Sanchez |
>I would characterize your detent plate as having abnormal wear. It does look pretty bad next to the new one:  She's all buttoned up now, and my friend Mr. Neutral has come back to see me. A test ride will have to wait for the morning, but it feels like it's shifting normally now. Not bad for $4 worth of parts. Danny, let me know how that Baker kit turns out. I'll probably do the same thing next time my clip breaks. | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Well my bike is all apart, the transmission is a breeze to remove. I ordered a drill bit from Mcmaster Carr and the kit should be here tomorrow. My detent plate was pushed up against the clutch basket and has heavy gouges, I will take a picture. I will let you know what I think when I get it done....Den | ||
| Littlebuggles |
The review on it in the Battle2win mag (Aaron Wilson) said the kit made it "more difficult" to find neutral from second gear, any idea if the kit was ever mod'd to "fix" that? -Bug | ||
| Djkaplan |
I never read that review. Could you give us a review of the review? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I think you were supposed to grind down something to give the detent more clearance. | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Actually the shift drum pins are a big culprit. They are not secured and slide out under vibration. They push the detent into contact with the clutch basket. Then the follower does not apply pressure perpendicular to the shift drum making the system a little unpredictable. Couple this with the friction of the clutch basket in contact with the detent and the result is less than Buellistic performance. Den | ||
| Sloppy |
Buy the Banke shift drum and make sure you have the updated primary chain shoe. | ||
| Bluelightning |
Also for you higher mileage guys out there, Jose Q recently had a problem with his shifter not getting into neutral and also not keeping proper clutch adjustment. Turns out the spring place located in the middle of the clutch pack broke on him! The brass rivets came apart and rattled around in the basket. He ended up putting a burr in the drum and badly gouging a shift fork as a result. The fix was to replace the fork, file the burr, and get rid of the spring plate replacing it with 2 steels and a friction plate (otherwise known as a Barnett extra plate kit). While you guys are in there might want to check your clutch pack out too.... | ||
| Sanchez |
> Turns out the spring place located in the middle of the clutch pack broke on him! That seems to be another common problem I've found in other posts while researching my own issue. I'm going to go ahead and order a clutch spring compression tool so I'll be ready for it next time instead of calling around to Harley dealerships that don't keep these things in stock. Can anyone point me to a good price on one? The prices I've found range from $52 up to $79, and it's $117 from a dealership. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
When my clutch went out at 50K or so, The little rivets were still trapped in the clutch plates. I counted them out when I took out the plates to make sure I got them all  | ||
| José_quiñones |
I got 62k out of mine, but I should have replaced the clutch pack last year the first time the transmission locked up and I decided to put the Baker shift drum kit in there with Bluelightning's help. A learning experience! | ||
| Denfromphilly |
The reason for my current disassembly is that my clutch was dragging big time after I finished a MSF experienced rider course. The clutch started dragging so bad I couldn't down shift when stopping and lost points. There was a LOT of feathering that day and I assume the clutch over heated. I adjusted the clutch and a couple days later it was bad, bad, bad. I troubleshot and replaced the cable that had a well worn inner sleeve and a lot of friction. DaveS from Appleton HD shipped the part to me at 10% off and 10 days earlier than the soul slugs at my local HD dealer. The clutch cable didn't help so I dismantled the primary, used a toilet flange and a piece of metal to compress the spring. I didn't like this arrangement, felt it was not secure. I ordered the clutch tool and it took a week to get, opened up the clutch and brass rivet pieces poured out. I took all the plates out and cleaned out all the rivets and put in one more friction and two steels thanks to Jack Be Quick. I had to buy a couple more at a HD dealer for $20 each to replace damaged friction discs from the rivets. When the primary was apart I could see the detent plate out of alignment so I pulled the clutch pack and sprocket with my complimentary primary lock tool from JackBeQuick. Boy, he can be handy too! There are deep gouges in the detent plate and I fixed this only 4,000 miles ago. The drum pins slipped again but the clip was still intact. This clip was also 4,000 miles old and seemed to be a different temper than the original clip that broke. I ordered the Baker kit to fix this problem for good! It should arrive today. The clutch compression tool is also made by Motion Pro and sold through Drag Spec, JB and many more places. Gargoyle has it for the lowest price of $52 but delivery is 2 or 3 weeks. I bought at a local bike shop for $59 and it took three days. The Drag Spec's part number is DS197026. It works great and the clutch comes apart with no drama whatsoever! The friction discs and steel discs were the same dimensions as new parts BTW, they were exactly the same thickness as new after 17,000 miles. Not bad considering I thrash the bike! Looking forward to 100,000 trouble free miles....Den | ||
| Jackbequick |
Den, For what it is worth, those plates I sent you were purchased as a used set and supposed to have had about 15,000 miles on them. They came out of a parted out/chopper donor S3 or Lightning I think. A year or so back several regulars here were recommending the spring plate be replaced with extra plates. Tramp was saying he had replaced his long ago. He also said that he thought the clutch in his bike had something like 145,000 miles on it. I think it had been in two bikes. This was at the time his adjuster screw bearing failed a year or so ago but the clutch itself was still working fine. That's a pretty good testimonial to the durability of H-D clutches. It looks like if we took the clutches apart and replaced the spring plates from the get go, most of us would never have to repair or disassemble a clutch. I'm going to do mine this winter, and I'll give the pins and that detent plate clip a hard look too. Probably replace the clip as a just in case. I'm pretty easy on clutches and transmissions because of Triumphs and cork plates but after listening to some of the abuse that H-D clutches will take, I doubt that I'll ever wear mine out. Glad to hear the locking bar worked for you. I found the rest of that piece of fibreglas, got out my saw, and I now have about six of them in my parts drawer. Jack | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Hi Jack, The disc from you and the ones from my bike and the brand new ones from a dealer are all exactly .087" thick. The steel plates were all the same too but I can't recall the dimension (I think it was also .087"). I was surprised how much stress a little piece of fiberglass can take, the lock worked perfect and didn't eat up my sprockets either. I recommend you consider the Baker kit, it's very easy to install and hopefully worth the effort for trouble free miles. I really took my time taking the tranny out once the clutch was reassembled, I honestly went very slow reading the book and it took maybe 20 minutes. If you need a clutch tool I will send you mine when the time is right. Thanks for all your help, bike should be 90% reassembled tonight. Den | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I took my shift drum apart yesterday and the #1 fork that controls 5th and 3rd gear had a real bad gouge on the inside from the drum. The drum had a very sharp raised lip at the corner of the groove that gouged the fork pin. Third gear was always clunky on my bike, maybe this is the reason. I assume the HD drum is not as hard as the pins and flows under pressure. The gouge in the arm looked like a mirror image of the shift drum groove pattern. I guess it's .005" deep and 1/32 wide. The arm was very stiff on the drum and the pin stuck in the fork from a burr that developed in the brass/bronze arm. I didn't want to wait two more weeks for a fork so I smoothed it down with crocus cloth. It seems to move smooth on the baker drum. Anyone experience this and before I button it back up should I get a new fork? Thanks, Den |
