| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
A comment on a political thread claimed 20 mile range on their electric bicycle, at full assist. Don't know how many AAA batteries they carry to get that. But I've been looking at an electric assist bike to cruise around the extensive trail network, where gasoline powered motorcycles and scooters are banned. The "best" setup appears to be the "Mid Drive" systems from Bosch and others that uses a special frame with no bottom bracket that has a standardized bracket to hold the motor assembly. For upgrading existing bikes, you can use a front hub motor, ( bad idea according to the bicycle pros I've talked to ) a rear hub motor, or a bottom bracket mounted motor that replaces the crank set and feed the power through the existing drive train. ( offering the best balance and usually multiple gear ratios. ) I've got a Specialized Stump Jumper full suspension bike, and I'm seriously looking at the BB mounted versions, and looking for feedback on battery size and motor power recommendations. Happy trails. | ||
| Tpehak |
If I would need a new e-bike I would buy this one https://www.haibike.com/de/en/ebikes/emountainbike s/trail/alltrail-9-275-de663?id=45020241 | ||
| Jaimec |
Why not Erik's new passion project? https://www.fuell.us/products/fuell-flluid-ebicycl e?variant=40591069577369 | ||
| Tpehak |
I prefer full suspension fat tires off-road bicycles so I can ride it everywhere, not just city commute. (Message edited by TPEHAK on March 12, 2022) | ||
| Aesquire |
Both look good but belt & the Shimano CVT hub get the win. The motor specs are listed differently, Watts vs. Newton Meters & I don't know if there's a standard conversion... ( Nm per second = Watts per second ) that applies right. ??? | ||
| Tpehak |
OK, I changed my mind. Now I want Optibike R22 Everest https://optibike.com/r22-everest/ https://youtu.be/yYDnBwJJB2g  | ||
| 34nineteen |
By reading the specs, that looks like a Class 4 e-bike which generally isn't allowed on non-motorized vehicle trails. The Fuell is basically a commuter bike, which while it has a suspension fork, the fork and other components are best suited for on-road usage. I wouldnt buy one, but if the OP is liking the Specialized brand, they do offer a very competitively priced lineup of e-bikes for the intention he stated. I'm seriously considering a Pivot Shuttle LT myself. Now that is one seriously amazing mountain bike. | ||
| Hootowl |
Watts is already per second. A Watt is one Joule per second. | ||
| Aesquire |
Anything new and designed from scratch is going to be better than a retrofit, and more expensive. After all, nigh everything about mountain bikes, from headsets to bottom brackets to hubs are different than my ancient 20th century gear. In many cases, stronger, at least theoretically. But... I've already got a capable full suspension mountain bike, and it's a thousand to upgrade to electric boost, vs. $4-5-6 thousand for a high end E-bike. And since I pick up my recumbent this afternoon, that's 2 or 3 bikes in my fleet available to add power. I haven't researched the new rules for Ebikes on trails locally. | ||
| Teeps |
This is a trail head somewhere in Michigan.  | ||
| Tpehak |
Optibike just destroys all those high end e-bikes | ||
| Mnrider |
There are just a ton of Ebike makers now. I am really liking my Radrover 6,I have gotten 80 miles on a charge with pedaling. | ||
| Aesquire |
The Rans Force 5 is in the basement, in front of the big screen, in a trainer. Which isn't working yet, as the 26" - 29" tire adjustment range falls 1/8" short of the 650c racing triathlon tires on my new ( used ) bike. Sigh. Fortunately my buddy at the local bicycle shop, knows the single source for the adapter I need, that isn't in any consumer online catalog. Not even mentioned in the Sunlite website. Hopefully by next week I can start learning how to work the F5. Oh, shameless and unsolicited plug! Freewheelers on Mt. Hope Ave, Rochester NY. Small local owner shop that does excellent work at setting up bikes ( trued wheels, proper lube and preloads, brake alignment, etc. ) and maintenance. Ditto, The Bicycle Man, Alfred Station NY. Recumbent and trike specialist. That's where I picked up the used Rans. There's a learning curve I'm just beginning with the high crank feet up position, mostly just getting rolling from a stop. I'm changing the handle bars from big swoopy beach cruiser types to a superbike bar to improve knee clearance. There's nothing mechanical I can do about heel strike on the front wheel issue except technique, but I've had bikes with toe overlap before, so that's just practice, not insurmountable. It promises to be excessively fast once I get used to it and some muscle tone back. With skinny 650c aero racing wheels and tires, it is a very low drag machine, and the symbol of my possibly stupid insistence that I can still run a two wheel machine. There's already snow ( this morning ) so the trainer for the winter hopefully will inspire improvement. | ||
| Tpehak |
I'm going to build this carbon-fiber frame bicycle. The motor is more powerful than Optibike https://innotrace-shop.de/produkt/motorenset-x1/ The stock battery capacity can be up to 1040wh And it is maybe 3-5 times cheaper, it looks better and it has not only throttle but also pedal assist with torque sensor, it is faster.  (Message edited by TPEHAK on December 10, 2022) | ||
| Aesquire |
A customized Bafang mid drive? Nice. Lots more power than most. Price about the same as the do it yourself version than hangs under an old school bottom bracket frame. The New "standard" drive frames will take a motor or a gearbox. They also now make that drive mount for recumbent trike booms to replace a regular bottom bracket/derailleur mount. Unfortunately my tablet didn't play nice with the website, so I don't know what they want for batteries. For a cost perspective, a Bafang retrofit kit in the 1000 watt range runs about a thousand bucks plus battery, call it 300-700$ depending on size and cell maker. ( Panasonic and Samsung are a premium over generic Chinese ) That's for an old style bike frame, not the new "standard gear box/motor mount" as seen in the picture above. The Shimano and Bosch setups are more expensive and less powerful, 250-500 watts. A buddy has the older ( last year, so On sale ) 750 watt Bafang motor/battery on his racing hardtail mountain bike and commutes 30 miles a day at 20-30 mph. I've tried it, it's sweet. He does have a few complaints. The bracket the motor hangs from is prone to loosening and fretting the BB. Utah Trikes has a $75 CNC bracket for boom tubes that solves it for many recumbent bikes and trikes but not conventional diamond frames. But I bet someone makes one, and it's a part well worth upgrading. ( I'd buy one for my high racer if I get the Bafang kit ) He has heavy duty zip ties to counter the torque, and does regular maintenance. There's no doubt you get a better product going to a new, motor specific frame, other things being equal like frame quality in materials, welding, etc. But it's nice to be able to retrofit into an older bike that was paid for last century. A local builder, Maxwell, is going for a lighter approach with 250 watt rear hub motors and a light frame with built in battery mount. Much easier to haul upstairs at 38 pounds all up than a lot of E bikes. It's almost The same as my old Stump Jumper full suspension with heavy duty wheels, without a motor. ( I'm a big guy and hate to taco a wheel 10 miles from a road. ) The bike above looks very nice. Please report on it when you get it. | ||
| Aesquire |
I just test rode a Sun Fat Tad trike, and while the fat tires sure are comfortable, and probably perfect for snow & sand, they absorb a lot of energy from the rider, so I'd only get a Fat Tire bike with electric assist. I'm going to stick with tires in the 2-2.5 range for off road, myself, mostly because I'm cheap and already own them, and they've worked on technical single track and everywhere else for me. And my kitchen is now the bike and trike garage with this week's big purchase of a used Cattrike Expedition ( 20" front, 26" rear ) with an obsolete Bionx 500 watt rear hub motor. With regenerative braking for downhills. And it promptly snowed.  The Expedition is their "sport touring" machine with a 37 degree seat and meant for touring at speed, iirc, the second fastest in their line. ( the "700" has a 27 degree seat and is a real racer, but a bit more work to climb out of. Besides, they didn't have a deal on one.  ) I'll post a picture shortly. I took it on a long test ride a few weeks ago in the hills around Alfred U and it's pretty fast with the motor off, at least it feels darn fast with my butt that close to the ground. | ||
| Aesquire |
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| Aesquire |
The Optibike top of the line is bordering on light motorcycle capabilities and mass. Uses downhill bicycle forks, wheels, and components, is still a pedal bicycle. Very nice. Pricy,too. The Rohlof hub gearset alone is $1500 retail. It reminds me of a frame kit for mountain bike wheels and forks etc. But used the ubiquitous Honda "pit bike" engine & knockoffs. Also neat but not street legal in some places. The slick Carbon bike above uses the typical rectangular box battery in the hollow big downtube, and other than a quibble over the aesthetics of the top tube shock mount, looks like a great, lighter, capable bike. What kind of trails you planning on? Neither of my recumbents is any good on single track in the woods, my local stuff. Maybe later I'll get/assemble a dirt recumbent, but first I want to see how far I can get on the bike trail network in my area, and get some practice. Getting the Cattrike put electrifying another on hold for a bit, but a motor will go on either the mountain bike or the red thing made by an airplane designer. Trail? Or road rocket? I'm amused at the specialization of bicycles today. And nomenclature changes, better living through marketing. For example, I was doing the "all roads" hybrid race and mountain bike "Metise" as a flat bar, mountain bike brakes & gearing, alternative to the Cyclecross racers. Iirc it was a product of the desire to run Cali fire roads at speed and have the street bike efficiency to ride home. Then they were renamed "hybrids" because the original French term was considered crude, insulting, and definitely not PC. Then hybrid came to mean the vast majority of cheap bikes with flat bars and used universally in cities. Hybrid was the new standard bike, and lost it's niche meaning. Now they're running Cyclecross splayed drop bars and renamed "gravel bikes". Whatever you call it, or handle bars you use, the idea is a bike at home on pavement, dirt, basically anything you'd call a road. And even do trails to the limits of the tires. They will be faster than a mountain bike right up until it gets rough enough that the wider tired machine dominates. Alternatively you can run fairly skinny tires for road use on a mountain bike and get the same results. | ||
| Ourdee |
I know they are comparing to F1 cars and F1 cars are not allowed fans. But we are talking 7s in the quarter with a street legal car in the next iteration. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/12/the -daily-chart-charge-ahead.php This is a well known phenomenon. Cold slows chemical processes. The original GM electric cars had as little as 15 miles range in winter, partly from cold battery, partly from parasite power drain to heat the cabin with one of the least efficient heating methods available. I point out the latest electric cars use far more efficient heat pumps, but steering wheel and seat heaters, if installed, still use resistance heaters. And experience shows that my 2021 hybrid, arguably state of the art, gets 12-15% less mileage in freezing weather. I wouldn't give up the steering wheel heater, anyway. Major comfort factor. I've also noticed that trip length matters. My battery is under the back seat and as the cabin warms reaches an equilibrium temp with the outside air temp. I'd argue my numbers are pretty straightforward as I do not have a plug in car and thus 100% of energy efficiency is reflected in mileage as measured by gallons consumed. What this means with e-bikes is charge time out in an unheated shed will take longer than in a kitchen. And range per charge will be further starting with a room temperature vehicle than one stored in the cold. Of course this is less of a factor where it's warmer, and a big variable is your cold tolerance when choosing to ride. Personally I'm less likely to ride my bicycle in the 20s F than I used to. But for some of us mountain biking is a year round activity. Balance risk factors yourself! I usually put my battery charger for tools on top of a metal box, ( tool box, clothes dryer ) or the concrete floor of the basement, and am considering what to do with the e-bike battery charging station. Also getting a timer to shut off charging current for unattended operations. Old metal industrial stool, probably. It's still charging batteries in my living space, but compromise... I know that one of the earliest pioneers in e-ultralight aircraft charges his power packs in his fireplace. Or on field with generators he carries in his trailer. ( electricity is hard to come by at an airport ) Naturally, I urge caution and safety mindedness in any risky activity I engage in! I'm the kind of guy that won't try to stop you if you want to jump out of an airplane or ride a superbike. But I will offer to check your harness or lend you my tire pressure gauge. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/05/electric-door slammer-1-4-mile-world-record-true-cousins-has-don e-it-again-video/ dang! | ||
| Aesquire |
That fan car is insane. They banned that tech in CanAm, unfair advantage and danger lurking at the edge of the envelope. https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a32350/ji m-hall-chaparral-2j-history/ I notice they paid attention to the aerodynamics in the McMurtry Spéirling for safety in case you spin out, so it won't take flight, hopefully. I'm in the Tony Fokker "school" or aerodynamics, he told his engineers to try and "see the spray" and it's quite nice, to my eye. | ||
| Aesquire |
Nice sunny, 35 deg f day. Took Mom for groceries, did some little things, got home and carried the tricycle out. Actually made it around the entire 3 mile hilly block! Which was my basic goal for spring. Oh, cheated massively with the E boost set to 2 of 4 and grateful for the Dura Ace shifters, but I actually made it! Darn cold too. Gotta get a flag. | ||
| Tpehak |
The frame is here  | ||
| Aesquire |
Sweet! What kind of drive train are you planning on? I really like the Envolio hub drive for smooth & easy "shifting" and think it's elegant as heck, but the gear range may not fit your needs. https://enviolo.com/ The Shimano hubs, 8 & 11 speeds, are decent bargains, but take careful setup of cable tensions. The ability to both use electronic shifters, and as a fully automatic transmission with a Bosch power package is nifty. And the lovely Rohloff 14 speed hub is a thousand bucks more than the 11 speed Shimano. Better gear range is more important than the number of speeds. The around the world touring loons love the Rohloff and belt drives too! Low maintenance is great. But when the hub breaks in Bhutan, you need to order a new one or ship your wheel to the other side of the planet and wait for a fix to be shipped to you. So for now I'm keeping a derailleur drive and chains so I can choose my gearing for the hills I ride and get parts in any bicycle shop in the world. I've wrecked a Shimano Deore rear derailleur on a rock in Vermont and swapped to a cheap replacement in the parking lot of the local bike shop while waiting for a pizza from next door. Bike ran fine until I replaced the part back home and gave the cheap one to the neighbor's kid. ( a decent upgrade for him ) The pizza was ok. | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm MASSIVELY biased about any electronic wireless stuff. I won't buy anything I have to pair to my phone. Bad enough my Caravan aftermarket stereo auto answered my phone with the ignition off and key in pocket. I unpaired them to stop that. Now my phone won't talk to my freaking coffee cup! ( Christmas present, and nifty ) Seriously! I might try a wireless dropper seat post, since my old bike doesn't have the cable access, but shifting? No way. My buddy's Bafang middrive has the control display that works with his phone. Until he passes the big apartment complex on his commute and their Wi-Fi interferes. His motor keeps working since it's hard wired to the control, but his fancy phone display doesn't. And based on my psychic aura that wrecks Bluetooth connection... Or blistering incompetence with them, same difference, I'm willing to get a helmet with speakers and mic, but no way bicycle shifters that have batteries. I ride places I don't want to walk home carrying a bike or trike from. | ||
| Tpehak |
Kindernay VII | ||
| Aesquire |
Nifty! Hydraulic shifting? That doesn't use batteries, so I can't complain. the internal hubs I've looked at include... Shimano Alfine 8/11 speed, 397/409% range. Kindernay 7/14 speed, 428/543% range. Rohloff 14 speed, 526% range. Enviolo ( no steps ) 380% range. Sturmey Archer 5/8 speed, 243/325% range. Ignoring the cheap Sturmey Archer hubs, which I doubt are sturdy enough, there's a price spread from under $300 for Shimano 8 speed Alfine, to $1500 for the lovely Rohloff 14. The Kindernay is new to me, ( released in 2020 ) and looks great, although the swap capability appeals to my inner geek, I don't think I have the patience to use it often. I begrudge the time to pump up my tires every ride. Still, how often do you ride different bikes in one day? I can see two wheel sets for commuting and off road with different tires and gearing, my racing bike has that, for hilly rides and flat time trials, although it takes carefully matched spacing to avoid having to retune derailleur adjustments. And to be honest the narrow range wheelset is also tubulars, and even though I have everything tuned so I can swap in under a minute, I never really bother. I'm just not fast enough to take advantage. Ultimately I don't discount the cool factor of New Toy bragging rights, even if you don't ever ride with anyone else. The Alfine & Rohloff do take a little effort to fine tune cable tension, or they shift terrible and you can actually trash them. Kindernay claims factory tuned hydraulics, so you don't have to think about tuning. And the Enviolo is very easy and forgiving both in setup and operation. It also has the possibility with Bosch & Panasonic middrives to operate in automatic mode, where you set your desired cadence, ( pedal rpm ) and it maintains that to the limits of your gearing. For new riders with zero experience and mechanical aptitude that could be a big selling point. I wouldn't go for that, myself. I do really like the ease of operation and infinitely fine adjustment, you never are stuck with a gap in gearing that forces a change in cadence... Although with modern 9-14 speed drivetrains that's not the problem it was with 6 speeds back in the last century. | ||
| Aesquire |
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| Tpehak |
The fork is here. The frame is assembled.  |
