| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
What an awful shame. Another shooting tragedy. Another chance for emotions and feelings to trump fact and logical analysis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzPL82QxCks I've pretty much come to a conclusion since analyzing the video, and it's only been further bolstered by the additional information forthcoming since the video broke. But the news "reporting" has been predictably horrendous, failing to show let alone carefully analyze the most vital portion of the video, when Arbery instead of jogging on past chose to abruptly turn towards and charge (attack) McMicheals. In Georgia, it's legal to open carry a firearm, long gun or pistol. It's legal to try to question a person. Is it legal to stop on a street to ask someone questions? It's illegal to attack someone for trying to ask you questions, whether they are armed or not. It's illegal to point a weapon at someone absent justification. It's illegal to detain someone without lawful cause. Who broke which laws? What say you? Was Arbery innocently jogging through the neighborhood. Seems so... until this video surfaced showing him walking and prior to entering a home under construction, only taking off running as the neighbor stood outside reporting the suspicious behavior on his phone to 911. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylOEBqHXOVQ and this one... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igThcykZsZk (Message edited by blake on May 20, 2020) | ||
| Blake |
Even if he was innocently jogging through the neighborhood... was the shooting unjustified from the view of the law? Horrific either way. What a shame. REALLY bad idea as a private citizen to go out with guns looking to confront people who are doing no serious harm to anyone. (Message edited by blake on May 20, 2020) | ||
| Hootowl |
The press narrative about him jogging is typical. You could also say he was running. Running from the place he was casing, after being caught. The only thing that surprises me about the whole situation is that the press isn’t using a years old picture of him in his prom tux. | ||
| Hootowl |
Yes, really bad idea. One of the guys is connected to law enforcement somehow, as he performed the investigation that resulted in the kid having his probation revoked. That means he was known to them; they were stopping someone they knew was a criminal. https://www.foxnews.com/us/ahmaud-arbery-shoplifti ng-video | ||
| Blake |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hOPi63mJDI | ||
| Blake |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnjr3yh0mzI | ||
| Hootowl |
Oh wait, they are showing him in his tuxedo. I am no longer confused. | ||
| Blake |
President Trump invoked that photo of Arbery in the tux when he was asked about the tragedy. He didn't prejudge, but shared that Arbery looked like a great guy. Who could disagree? He looks like a freaking All-American. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
If he was known to one of the charged individuals, and running away, why pursue? At that moment to decide whether to pursue or not, to their knowledge no one was harmed, there was likely only burglary or theft at that point. They could have been good witnesses for the police, and the police could have picked up the person of interest later. It might have been legal to chase him, but was it smart? They voluntarily exposed themselves to a deadly force possibility by pursuing, (or they wouldn't have brought a shotgun). That might make them a "willing participant", and that might negate the self defense argument, depending on Georgia law. Time and trial will tell.. | ||
| Ourdee |
I do not know everything. I do know a small amount. There is video from inside the construction site gathered from on site camera systems. | ||
| Tpehak |
He played stupid game and won stupid prize. | ||
| Court |
The video from the house . . . . Even if it shows him commit5ing a felony ..... does nothing to mitigate the premeditated first degree murder. | ||
| Tpehak |
He new what he is risking for illegally coming to private property. People got shot here for such behavior even it might be not justified. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
This is an interesting perspective: https://youtu.be/sjCzJyFKoqo | ||
| Blake |
MNScrounder: >>> If he was known to one of the charged individuals, and running away, why pursue? The video shows Arbery running up to the McMichaels, then around the right side of their truck, then cutting hard left and charging hard straight at the younger McMichaels, head down. Where is the pursuit you're alleging? House video doesn't mean anything except maybe reasonable suspicion and that he wasn't just jogging through the neighborhood. Video shows him walking casually, then entering house, then only taking off running when he appears to notice that he's been observed. Premeditated first degree murder seems quite a stretch. I doubt that will even be charged, given the video and the 911 call. What would be the motive for the McMichaels to actually plan to kill Arbery? It looks to me like if Arbery had simply jogged on past or even just stopped to talk, then no shooting would have occurred. (Message edited by blake on May 21, 2020) | ||
| Tpehak |
This is an interesting perspective: https://youtu.be/sjCzJyFKoqo Now I see what happened. That was fight for the gun, so yes, shooting him down is justified. As I understand they even did not point guns to him, they just cared guns with them openly and ordered to stop him because of they saw his activity in the private property. But he did not stop and attacked the person trying to take the shotgun out of his hands and the second person shoot him down when he saw he is trying to take the shotgun. Totally legit. Assuming this is not first felony of this dead person and he kept doing this sooner or later this had to be happened. (Message edited by TPEHAK on May 21, 2020) | ||
| Ourdee |
The video from the house . . . . Even if it shows him commit5ing a felony ..... does nothing to mitigate the premeditated first degree murder. The video I watched from the house gives him a clean bill of health. Owner of construction property, gives him a clean bill of health. No evidence of crime or trespass. I believe it will all come down to weather he was threatened with a gun or if he was the aggressor without cause. A Georgia jury will decide. | ||
| Tpehak |
| ||
| Court |
Yeah . . . . But an”aggressor” who was pursued by 2 fellows who gather up weapons and pursue the “aggressor” start with a LOT (since, they’ve just pretty much defined “premeditation”j of points against them. But. . . . The facts always ....in these types of things. . . . Seem to evolve slowly and change constantly. We’ll see. | ||
| Blake |
Ourdee: >>> I believe it will all come down to weather he was threatened with a gun or if he was the aggressor without cause. Or somewhere in between, and with the former needing to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. I predict acquittal on a murder charge if brought. It makes ZERO sense for Arbery to have continued running towards the McMichals, then around their truck, then turning and charging the younger McMichaels, if Arbery felt threatened. Looks to me, and I could be wrong, but it looks to me like a huge dose of bad attitude gone wrong. What if he'd simply jogged on by? Better to attack two armed men??? Makes zero sense. | ||
| 04xl1200c |
It does not have to make any sense. It was a black man who got shot. The white man is guilty of murder because of that. These are strange days where the facts DO NOT MATTER, just the optics. | ||
| Tpehak |
He attacked the man with shotgun because he thought the man in the truck trunk does not have any gun and felt this is the reasonable way to escape pursuitors. He might considered to use this shotgun against the pursuitors. He knew how his trespassing on private property looked like and he knew he has already criminal records so he did not want to be caught. As you can see he attacked him rapidly once he passed the truck, he expected the man with shotgun will not have time to react and shoot him. (Message edited by TPEHAK on May 21, 2020) | ||
| Ourdee |
I am watching. I figure a trial to be a year off by the time the lawyers get all their licks in on the salt block. As I said the jury will be made up of Georgians. I have enough trouble figuring out Hoosiers and I is one. If I made a guess at this point and with what little has been released, I would say they will not be found guilty. Note: I have no pony in the show and my ego is not at stake. | ||
| Blake |
Well gee Court, you have to get your weapon in order to carry it defensively too. Maybe like most folks who carry defensively the weapons were already on person or in truck, but regardless, merely having a firearm is perfectly reasonable there in Georgia. Untold millions of Americans gather up their weapon whenever they leave home. I don't reckon they're looking to kill anyone though. | ||
| Court |
Few jump out of their vehicle holding them in position . . . Self defense is . . . . Well, self defense. These two appear to have viewed themselves as self anointed judge, jury and executioner. The other crime that’ll draw scrutiny is a couple months of being swept under the rug by the good ol boy network. Could be entirely wrong. As we all recall from the fabled “ hands up, don’t shoot” . . . Facts evolve markedly as these incidents unfold. We’ll see. I kind of have a “could care less” attitude but I do confess some concern with all the folks I see legally carrying guns. I hope I’m not in the next Luby’s . . . It’ll be a damn shooting gallery. Hahaha | ||
| Tpehak |
Meanwhile coronavirus killed more people in Georgia this day than guns. | ||
| Ourdee |
At least no one is dieing of the flu anymore. | ||
| Tpehak |
One of the reasons they stopped in the middle of road is safety. Another drivers will have to stop and they may help, plus another stopped drivers can become witness of the situation which is good too. (Message edited by TPEHAK on May 21, 2020) | ||
| Zane |
"Mean while coronavirus killed more people in Georgia this day than guns." Yes and one of them isn't my ex wife... | ||
| Blake |
It's interesting to me mostly from the news reporting issue. I agree, getting out of the truck carrying the shotgun looks sinister. Gotta go by law though, and the law says no problem carrying, while it is a problem attacking a man with a gun and trying to take it. It's interesting hearing the perspectives of people I highly respect, my own dad included. Dad had only seen the network news reporting and had about the same perspective that you initially shared, even more harshly critical of the McMichaels. Then he watched the uncut video of the incident, and the video showing Arbery walking and entering the house, then running away just prior. He exclaimed, "why don't they show that on the damn news?!" Our popular news media is corrupt and dishonest, no other way to say it. The delay in prosecuting was reportedly due to two consecutive recusals by prosecutors who had worked with the elder McMichaels. Better a shooting gallery of lawful people taking out a would be mass-murderer than the other way around! Besides, you've been shot, and look how good you turned out. Though it's probably not a bad idea to continue avoiding the bird hunting with Dick Cheney. |
