| Author | Message | ||
     Macbuell |
Slaughter, what you said is why the vulnerable (the old, obese, cpd, etc) should continue to isolate, social distance. Everyone else should go about their business and hospitals should be ready for an increase in cases. And hopefully if those most at risk are doing what they should, the number of severe cases isn't high. And we can slowly build herd immunity. Without people going out and without it spreading, there is no herd immunity. Like had been said, there is no perfect answer but what we are doing now is creating a ton of issues that are simmering below the surface and ready to explode. And I'd be willing to bet that will be worse in the long run. | ||
| Blake |
Tom: Wife just got back from the grocery store. No meat to be had. You can thank the sensationalist media for that. Alarmist conclusion? Does that make you a covid denier? Or a Covidiot? It makes me adherent to the non-emotional, non-egotistical scientific method, to facts, data, and logic. My position fits right with what most epidemiologists are saying, that this epidemic will claim around 100k to 200k lives. The pandemic passed the 200K point globally. Do you mean in the US? If that's alarmist, then I'm an alarmist. Is that a scientific term. Being alarmist about a genuine threat is a good thing. I don't know what a "scientific term" is. Do you consider epidemiology a science? There is science, period. Where and how it may be applied is up to the person(s) conducting their desired scientific undertaking. So someone out of ignorance says we shouldn't have shut down auto production, but should have been more like Sweden, but it's wrong to point out that Sweden shut down their auto production? Really??? No, it's not wrong to point out facts. It may be trivial and insignificant to the issue, but it's not wrong. It's probably going to be a shock to the Saab employees in Sweden when they find out their employer is dead. I assume you have scientific data that backs that conclusion. Saab hasn't built a car anywhere since 2009. GM ditched them for cheap, it's changed hands a couple times, ending up in China IIRC, and no one capable of making a go with the brand took it up. It's a shame. EXCELLENT cars. Michele drives a 2007 9-3. Volvo, the other formerly Swedish car manufacturer has a facility in Belgium, but now belongs to the CCP, and imports their top two models from China for Euro market resale out of Belgium, a loophole in the EU trade criteria that the CCP had exploited. The simple fact Blake, is that you have an agenda that has nothing whatsoever to do with where the data leads. And what might my agenda be Tom, old friend? Since it's a simple fact, surely you can share it with us? I'd REALLY like to know, cause apparently my subconscious is running amuck with an agenda my consciousness has no clue about. You ignore evidence that goes against your agenda. I spent a fair amount of time critiquing some of the material you've offered here, as well as answering your questions about my personal views and experience concerning science. If I've ignored anything that you think is important, I've not done so intentionally. What evidence have I ignored Tom? You cherry pick evidence, no matter how bad, that supports your agenda. Then you rant about science. I've no idea what you're talking about RE "cherry pick evidence", but hey, I've also no idea what my apparently nefarious agenda here is either. Ranting about science. Guilty. It's a major area of concern and interest for me, not just professionally, but both personally, and politically too. I used to see discussions in passing where folks complained about you doing this same shit. Never paid it much mind, as they weren't topics I cared much about. Being in the middle of it with you first hand though, I've lost pretty much all respect for you. Perhaps you need to ban me for calling your BS. If you've lost all respect for me, then the only course of action with any integrity would be for you to avoid this web site, seeing as how I'm tasked with being it's chief custodian. I hope you change your mind. (Message edited by blake on April 29, 2020) | ||
| Blake |
Sorry for the drama. Not sure why, but I've always been compelled to answer those who publicly disparage me. May we all see this pandemic subside sooner rather than later. It's looking promising lately for that. | ||
| Aesquire |
re: returning to work I have far more questions than suggestions. The suggestions are mostly to be as libertarian, as much a matter of personal choice, as possible, even though that will never be the "optimum" solution if your Goal is zero deviation from an imagined norm. I predict that face masks will be fashionable, as they are in Japan. This is going to have to change some attitudes on face covers in law. Those who didn't like the Muslim face covering on women, may have to approach that subject differently, by being more vocal about why it's a sign of insecure males who think they lack the ability to resist temptation, instead of being authoritarian and banning. So questions... If your place of work turns back on, and you are a high risk individual, And you feel your work place is hazardous, should you stay home? Until a vaccine is available? Until your Governor orders you to return? How is your job going to get done? How long should a business keep your job open until you return? And another thousand questions on a Legion of subjects. | ||
| Court |
———>>>> Being alarmist about a genuine threat is a good thing. I thank the USMC but I prefer the company of folks who are relaxed, confident and well trained under live fire. For an interesting read . . . Check out “Becoming Bulletproof”. Being an alarmist consumes energy that I require in protecting myself and I family. Play to win. . . . Not to “hope you don’t loose”. | ||
| Ratbuell |
If your place of work turns back on, and you are a high risk individual, And you feel your work place is hazardous, should you stay home? Until a vaccine is available? Until your Governor orders you to return? How is your job going to get done? How long should a business keep your job open until you return? Stay home until you are comfortable with going out. Businesses should keep a reasonable amount of positions held open for employees, and make reasonable accommodations...but, in the end, this is NOT the government's decision and they, quite frankly, should get the hell out of the way and let people make decisions that are in their own best interests. "One size fits all"....doesn't. | ||
| Ourdee |
How long should a business keep your job open until you return? A business should only keep a job open for you as long as their HR policies say they will. You supply them with a days work and they pay you the agreed rate for that day. They owe you no more. IMNSHO | ||
| Blake |
USMC alarmism: "INCOMING!" The good alarmist. That might make a good title for a book. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Some other military catch-phrases:  | ||
| Ourdee |
13) was what I lived by. | ||
| Aesquire |
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| Aesquire |
British technique for identifying an unknown force in WW2. You can identify an unknown force by firing one shot and judging the response. If the unknowns respond with precise, regimented rifle fire, they are British. If they respond with heavy machinegun fire, they are German. But if nothing happens for a few minutes, then your whole position gets leveled by artillery, they are American. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The only problem with the above chart is, you can pretty much take the red line above where it splits from the green line (basically at the "efforts start working" point)...and slide it directly to the right. Just plug it in whenever you decide to re-open, no matter where the green line is at that point. Once again: "Flatten the curve" was NOT to cut overall infections. "Flatten the curve" was to keep all the infections from hitting RIGHT NOW. HOPEFULLY, the further down the timeline we get, we'll have better treatment and/or prevention options figured out...but no matter when we open back up, cases will spike again. And the Left will hem, and haw, and Blame Trump, because somehow he caused all this. But I'll be goddamned if I'll hide forever. That band-aid has to come off at some point, to start the actual healing process. The sooner we stop hiding, the sooner we start healing. We'll get the same downward curve as the virus tapers off naturally, but the longer we postpone the upswing...the further off the downturn is. And the longer our economy suffers. And the harder it is for SOCIETY to recover, as a whole. | ||
| Ratbuell |
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| Hootowl |
Sobering. Not #8. I’m not going to stop drinking.  | ||
| Tpehak |
Yup, if the curve will be flattened people will say we overreacted. The fun thing is at the beginning of the pandemic people said we underreacted. | ||
| Tpehak |
How do you manage your hairs? All barbershops are closed and my hairs are 5 inch long already. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Clippers or scissors, and a mirror. Or a hat. | ||
| 86129squids |
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| Zacks |
Leave them as a protest until the barbershop reopens. Working from home anyway - so who's to see? | ||
| 86129squids |
Oh, and BTW, Slaughter wins the cool dude award today. God bless and thanks for your work, and your team's work. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
>>>The reason so many civilians choose to go without masks in public is the reason we can't have nice things. I "choose" to go out in public without a mask. I do so for a couple of reasons. 1. I have a hard time breathing as it is, it is near impossible to walk around and be active with a paper mask, let alone a cloth one. 2. Herd immunity has to happen. The sooner the better. This means people will die. Harsh but true. This country CAN NOT survive a year long shut down. 3. I'm not convinced it's as deadly as the media has it made out to be, and if it is, my thoughts are as follows: I have accepted the fact I'm very high risk, and stand a good chance of dieing should I get the China Virus. Knowing this, some would think I should not leave the house, hide inside, and if forced to go to the store, wear a bubble around myself... That is just not practical. My brother, who lives with me, is an essential worker and works with the public. The odds of him getting sick are pretty good. It is quite possible for him to get the China Virus and pass it on to me and my other brother... Therefore I'm looking at this whole thing as if there's a good chance I die in the near future. If that's the case, so be it. I refuse to live in fear, and be held captive to this disease with what few liberties I have left taken away. | ||
| Ratbuell |
+1,000,000. I'm not high-risk (other than a collapsed lung back in '08 from my accident)...but I have the exact same mental state. If it's gonna get me, it's gonna get me. I'm using common sense, and doing what I can to keep from endangering OTHER people...but I refuse to live in fear, and I refuse to live as a captive in my own house. | ||
| Strokizator |
Homemade masks are worthless. N95 masks aren't much better. The "95" part means they have been tested to filter 95% of small particles. That suggests that 5% make it through. A pathologist on TV claimed that an asymptomatic carrier exhales 10 million virus particles with each breath. An N95 mask would filter out all but 500,000. That's reassuring. How many does it take to make a person sick? Am I supposed to feel safer if I see someone wearing an N95 mask with an exhale pop-off valve as opposed to no mask at all? How about a mask made out of an old t-shirt? Finally, I'm fed up with the PSA's telling me that we can fight this pandemic by staying in our homes. Maybe that's the French definition of "fighting" but it sounds more like surrender to me. | ||
| Court |
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| Aesquire |
Masks are to keep IN coughs and sneezes. That's if you are a civilian, not needing one to save you from fine particulates, toxic gasses, paint spray, etc. per OSHA and often common sense. You don't WANT to wear a N95 mask unless you have to, as it takes effort to inhale through the filter media. Leave those to the times and people that need them. Ditto, wear an appropriate mask when painting with spray gear, even cans. When I was young and immortal, I didn't until I started coughing up phlegm in the company color. I thank ( your choice ) that I caught on before using epoxy based paints, as the really nice ones will just kill you, and fairly fast. Chemicals use requires the appropriate mask, or full air supplied hood. ( I'd wear one to the grocery store just to freak people out, myself ) But for protection From Pooh's Breath? A layer of t shirt material is better than nothing, 2 layers is pretty good, and a paper mask just fine. You are NOT trying to prevent virus particles from entering your system, THAT requires a different set of CHOICES. You are trying to keep idiots from spitting in your mouth. You are signalling that you are an obedient citizen. ( sure, have a plan to kill everyone in the room, and you can THINK anything you want to, but this is CAMO! ) You are signalling that you want people to stay far enough away so they aren't coughing on you. Now, I have a beard, so basically, my beard is the primary filtering agent. My sister is sewing up a couple of decorative cloth masks for me. Washable, custom/universal fit, they will filter the air better than the paper masks, ( and the beard still is a primary filter medium ) She doesn't have any cloth with penises printed on them, so any pretty pattern will do, I have zero need to apply male ego or macho to what is basically CAMO! with the side purpose of reducing the chances of getting the flu. Choices? this rant is long enough. I'm sure others here have great advice on being anti-social. Enjoy!  | ||
| Aesquire |
Court, Plato was a blowhard! Courage is having fear, and doing what needs to be done anyway. Knowing what to fear takes REASONING and Knowledge. As the pages of flame and smoke on this thread show, the knowledge is limited and some sources just plain wrong. I don't fear asteroid strikes, at least until one is predicted by Skywatch. Then I'll just freak out a bit internally, and try and get things done to save someone. For Pooh's Breath, I pretend to follow directions, and try to keep my elderly parents from being exposed, by running errands. Since I, and most of my friends are in the high risk category, I look forward to an antibody test when they become available. btw a Marine buddy I do martial arts with, once spouted "Pain is fear leaving the body!" to which I replied, "No! Pain is your body telling you you did it wrong!" it's all in the attitude. (Message edited by aesquire on April 29, 2020) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Scars are evidence that you beat pain. And as noted in the photo I posted above - "bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid" I think (hope?) that if our government stepped back, and let our citizens decide for ourselves...we'd see some bravery, and some courage, and maybe even the return of common sense. But we've gotta stop handing the decision-making power to someone else. We (individuals) need to grow a pair, and take control of our own destinies. | ||
| Tpehak |
Coronavirus Attack video game | ||
| 86129squids |
+1, Whisper. I +1 again your first and second points above. I'd not gamble your 3rd assumption. And, I agree with the rest of the post. Strok, do you know how many "homemade" masks are being produced for EVERYONE daily? Can you give me data to prove efficacy other than "worthless"? Go ahead, mouth breather. I HATE wearing a mask. The first half of my life I fought asthma. Anything that restricts my breathing, even the thought of it, gives me a visceral reaction. My sweet M, who's working a couple of days a week at a discount house, has devised a mask made out of all things, puppy pads, and rubber bands. She's made a couple for me with crocheted bands, made to fit my big melon/face. You all go and contribute to the "herd immunity". I've been diabetic, type I since age 20, and have ridden with many of youn's. So, obviously, I'm hard to kill. IIRC I'm type O negative, so just harvest my plasma. |
