| Author | Message | ||
     Ebutch |
 | ||
| Aesquire |
Why would I believe anything written by the Senate? I know for a fact my Senator is a lying sack. Several others have also so proven. I'd rather get car maintenance advice from a cabal of used car salesman. Then there's the UN reports, the actually counted and documented stockpiles of poison gas. The many dead because of poison gas that Saddam used on "his" people, and the reports from Iran ( also not to be trusted ) on poison gas used on the children Iran sent ahead of their troops to find land mines. ( by stepping on them ) The nuclear program was on hold in Iraq after the Israelis bombed their plutonium production reactor, and the large stocks of yellow cake Uranium Saddam purchased were just sitting in deliberately contaminated bunkers. So the nuclear threat was low. But. The biological warfare program was also on hold. Samples of deadly germs were held by an Iraqi scientist at his home, and there was a biological incubation mobile lab, but at the time we freed Iraq there was no activity. But. Both programs were planned to resume after the inspection program ended. The world is fortunate that they never amounted to much. That leaves the poison gas. Gas U.S. troops were repeatedly exposed to when the shells hidden amongst the regular artillery shells were detonated as IEDs or blown up when we demolished stockpiles. I don't know the numbers of injured. I do know the VA was busy lying to get some management big bonuses, so I suggest you ask active duty medical personnel who served in the sandbox & might know. There is a question of wording. Did Iraq have WMDs? Yes. Plenty. Did Iraq use them on U.S. troops? Not to my knowledge. Were WMDs as big a problem as we thought before the liberation? No, they were and are a real threat if they are not destroyed, but Saddam didn't use them on us as we feared. Saddam also told the FBI agent that he'd ordered the poison gas hidden. ( we knew that ) & that he'd ordered them destroyed. But I've not seen a shred of evidence that that destruction ever took place. No records were ever given to the UN by Saddam's regime showing destruction of his large stockpiles. Thus the statement "WMDs were not a good reason to depose Saddam" would be opinion, but not a lie. The statement "Saddam didn't have WMDs" is a lie. One so easily proven false that the person spouting that lie makes everything else they say suspect at best, and worthy of contempt if they spout the lie knowingly. End rant. Begin reading Senatorial Butt Coverage pdf. Done. Except for the part about remaining stocks of pre-1991 poison gas shells, which was dismissed out of hand by this document, I am in general agreement. The conclusions otoh, only partly, because of those known weapons. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/07/world/middle east/-more-than-600-reported-chemical-weapons-expo sure-in-iraq-pentagon-acknowledges.html?referer= https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/middle east/army-apologizes-for-handling-of-chemical-weap on-exposure-cases.html Keep in mind the Times was spinning in favor of Barry but also their innate hatred of the military and glee at catching the Pentagon out on anything. | ||
| Aesquire |
https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-report s-1/iraq_wmd_2004/chap5_annxB.html Discussion of Iraq's WMD programs and the building of the incinerator to destroy the dispersed stocks. The many scattered poison gas stock was to be gathered to be destroyed. Syrian war gasses captured and used by ISIS discussed below. https://m.theepochtimes.com/exclusive-isis-mustard -gas-stockpile-captured-near-mosul-photos_2175873. html http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/17/how-the-islami c-state-seized-a-chemical-weapons-stockpile/ Correction. It wasn't last year that there was panic about Barry's ISIS was going to capture poison gas stocks. It was a closer to two years plus ago. My mistake. | ||
| Aesquire |
When multiple reports that poison gas is still laying around to be stolen in Iraq comes from the same people that earlier insisted those gas supplies didn't exist, And Never admit error, the conclusion is that Any means necessary to harm the Bush administration justified their reporting. Also leftists are conditioned to accept contradictory statements since their ideology is based on lies. I admit I didn't read any comments to see if their readers pointed out the previous lies. I don't usually bother reading comments. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/10/15/ chemical_weapons_iraq_u_s_covered_up_evidence_of_d efunct_sarin_mustard_gas.html https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13518370-80 0-iraqs-chemical-weapons-go-up-in-smoke/ | ||
| Aesquire |
You may notice these reports are generally not from "right wing" biased publications. I hope Toro now realizes how evil men tried to dupe him into believing the lie that there were no WMDs. A lie designed to hurt moral among the troops, give aid to the enemy, and used as a partisan political program against Bush 43. Among the many things I would have done differently than George the Younger, is I would have put pallets of poison gas shells captured in Iraq in the Rotunda of the Capitol. Guarded by armed Servicemen. Perhaps with a victim of those gases handy to discuss them with any citizen or journalist who wondered why they were there. On my bad days I wouldn't have emptied them before stacking them up. | ||
| Hootowl |
“I wish to exercise my 5th amendment privilege“ That’s a right, not a privilege.  | ||
| Hootowl |
“if you went to a Trump rally (where Trump was not in attendance) if you shared a "news story" on social media (that was not written by an accredited news source) if you reposted a meme from Facebook, Twitter or Instagram ” Sorry, I don’t use twitter or facebook, and I find political rallies about as interesting as those scripted reality shows that were all the rage several years ago...that I also did not watch. I didn’t have high hopes. I will admit that I was for anyone but Hillary. That Trump is actually doing things I like is gravy. I didn’t have high hopes. | ||
| Sifo |
Thousands attended protest organized by Russians on Facebook
So the largest and most successful effort by the Russian group was a Trump protest. Tell me again who was easily duped? | ||
| Toro |
Patrick. Is this what you are talking about? The chemical munitions that the United States and others had sold to Iraq back in the 80's? "From 2004 to 2011, American and American-trained Iraqi troops repeatedly encountered, and on at least six occasions were wounded by, chemical weapons remaining from years earlier in Saddam Hussein’s rule. In all, American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. The United States had gone to war declaring it must destroy an active weapons of mass destruction program. Instead, American troops gradually found and ultimately suffered from the remnants of long-abandoned programs, built in close collaboration with the West." https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/wor ld/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapo ns.html | ||
| Aesquire |
Yes, although that is the spin of the Paper that concealed mass murder on the part of Communist regimes for years. And the pimps for the falsehood where we sold them chemical weapons. And were in close collaboration. Although we did aid Saddam in fighting the Mullahs. Big mistake. We should have taken them out within days of the violation of the Embassy. I'm still apologizing for Voting for Jimmie. But yes, the New York Times, when it was convenient for them to attack the Pentagon, chose to change their tune 180 degrees and admit there were in fact WMDs in Iraq. Long before the Congressional Committee published it's report, anyone who paid attention knew that the Nuclear & Biowarfare programs in Iraq were not as bad as the CIA & the British thought. But the propaganda that there were no weapons was a lie. It was, and is, a standing falsehood put forth by Islamists, ( AQ, Muslim Brotherhood, CAIR, ) and the Democrat Party. Both with the intent to harm Bush and discredit America. Many times over the last decade I have heard and read the lie "Saddam never had any WMDs, Bush Lied People Died". That is a falsehood. And I can post pictures of the dead to prove it. Thankfully you have not gone there. I appreciate it. The only proper response to the discovery that there were not as MANY WMDs as we feared, would be an admission that, "golly, it turns out that Saddam only was in violation of his promise to destroy his weapons by enough to murder Baltimore. We'd apologize to him if he was still alive. Not lift a finger to stop his people from hanging him, mind you." Because the other reasons were just as real. You can make the argument that we shouldn't have freed Iraq. You can make the argument that occupying Afghanistan was a horrible idea, and that propping up the regimes that took power in both countries was, and is wrong. You might be surprised how much I agree. And I've been bitching about the screw ups of George the Younger, since he was still in office. But arguments that are dishonest? no. | ||
| Sifo |
Toro's posts would be a great study in cognitive dissonance. | ||
| Tootal |
I'm still apologizing for Voting for Jimmie. Really? What redeeming quality did Jimmie have that you would do such a thing!? Wait, he did sign the bill allowing the home brewing of beer. Ok, I'll give him that one! You're off the hook!  | ||
| Aesquire |
James Earl Carter did the Playboy Interview. Right before the election. Sounded smart & rational. Seriously. He won because of Playboy. As it turns out his domestic policy gave us Stagflation. Higher prices, no action. More importantly he gave Iran to premedieval Islam. Kicked off the modern Jihad. The death toll is ongoing. | ||
| Tootal |
I do remember my 11-1/2% interest home loan during his reign! Thank God, and I mean that literally, for Ronald Reagan! | ||
| Toro |
http://time.com/5163273/donald-trump-robert-muelle r-russia-2016-presidential-election/?utm_source=ti me.com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=the-brief&utm _content=2018021713pm&xid=newsletter-brief | ||
| Sifo |
Toro, just curious if you even read that article? That deserves to be posted in the MSM - What the hell thread. They are claiming Trump is contradicting his earlier "defense". They provide the proof in their own article that they are wrong. These are the tweets they provide as evidence of this contradiction.   One repeats the FBI, stating when the Russians in question started their disinformation, and that he did not collude with them. The other points out that the story of him colluding with the Russians was a hoax. Both are factual, and do not contradict each other. Of course Time says that he said Russian meddling was a hoax. That is not what Trump said, according to the actual tweet provided by Time. They go on to state that indictments for collusion could come in the future, offering nothing to support such reporting. That's not even reporting. That's just wishful thinking out loud on their part. It's fake news pal, and you've been duped again. | ||
| Aesquire |
Let's see if I can summarize. Donald's arguments from last twit are different from next twit because Donald is full of it. Inconsistent and noisy. ( no argument ) Times brings up a bunch of bull on the DNC server leaks, some from Donald mocking the DNC, some lies from the DNC & made up by the Times. Since there is no evidence the Democrat Party servers were hacked, since they were never given to law enforcement to investigate, file that under nonsense. I don't blame the DNC for not wanting to give the server to the FBI. Only the Party Elite know what evidence of what treason, money laundering, Venetian canal sabotage, or Martian mind control parasites are on there. Since Wikileaks claims it was an insider leak and one of the leakers was murdered in the cover up, we have to decide to chose who to believe. An international criminal organization of hackers and anarchist groups. Or the American criminal organization of election theft ( hi, Bernie ) slavery, The Klan, illegal money laundering, and dominated by Hillary Clinton. Golly, that seems easy to me. Wikileaks is far more credible. Not that I believe anything they say, but the Clintons have a much longer record of lies, convenient dead witnesses, & wag the dog wars. & it's Time magazine. Izvestia to Newsweek's Pravda. 80% pure propaganda? More? Less? Certainly worth cynical rejection of spin. And the article is mostly spin. End analysis. I will repeat my earlier argument that nothing so far proves Trump is innocent of the rumours of Russian collaboration to ????? All we have is more evidence of corruption in the Social Justice Department and FBI. And there is the growing number of ex Trump hanger ons busted for minor election money laundering or other charges. You'll have to take each individual and wait to see what happens. After all, if they committed crimes we all should rejoice in their comeuppance. Just as we demand justice for Hillary's crimes. | ||
| Sifo |
I will repeat my earlier argument that nothing so far proves Trump is innocent of the rumours of Russian collaboration to ????? Of course, any name could be inserted in that sentence. Thankfully our laws don't normally require innocence to be proven. That becomes an impossible standard that is a favorite of despots. For Trump, it seems to be necessary. And there is the growing number of ex Trump hanger ons busted for minor election money laundering or other charges. I will admit, I don't know the details of some of these charges. I do know that pretty much every election, there are people who are tangled in not following the letter of the law in handling campaign donations. I'm sure I've heard of it dozens of times. I know the Clintons had those issues. I know BO had those issues. I don't remember any prosecutions for that. Ever! | ||
| Toro |
"Overall, the indictment is filled with concrete, specific details that make it hard for the president to keep calling allegations of Russian meddling a “hoax.”" Are you a betting man Sifo? | ||
| Blake |
Toto, "The chemical munitions that the United States and others had sold to Iraq back in the 80's?" Why are you saying that the U.S. sold chemical munitions to Iraq? | ||
| Toro |
Gates is caving. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-18 /gates-ready-to-plead-guilty-and-turn-on-manafort- la-times-says | ||
| Zac4mac |
Toro I'm local, time and place for a beer soon? I would be honored. USN 76-82 Z | ||
| Sifo |
"Overall, the indictment is filled with concrete, specific details that make it hard for the president to keep calling allegations of Russian meddling a “hoax.”" Are you a betting man Sifo? Toro, you do yourself a disservice around here by claiming false quotes. I will call you on it. Others will call you on it. You will become known as a troll who deals in false claims. Trump didn't say that Russian meddling was a hoax. That's already been pointed out. Why do you continue with this crap? | ||
| Ratbuell |
"Russian meddling" - Russians posing as Americans, and running fake Facebook profiles, sponsoring rallies for BOTH SIDES, and generally causing disruption in the name of a "weaker America". Proven thus far as being nothing but identity harvesting in the name of financial theft of American citizens. Individuals. "Russian collusion" - Russians working with either one, or both, campaigns directly in order to influence the election one way or the other. One happened. One did not. The Russians didn't give a fart in the wind who won. They wanted "America to be weaker and disorganized" because of their misinformation-spreading. And you will note that, to the best of my recollection and research, anyway - that Trump doesn't say a word about "no Russian meddling" - his stance is "no COLLUSION". Evidenced by the fact that the meddling started before he even announced his candidacy. Webster's: Definition of meddle meddled; meddling play \ˈmed-liŋ, ˈme-dᵊl-iŋ\ intransitive verb : to interest oneself in what is not one's concern : interfere without right or propriety (see propriety 3) Definition of collusion : secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose acting in collusion with the enemy ....see the difference? Its a shame our press has lost sight of the English language, and how to properly use words... | ||
| Toro |
Bloke. The reason I am saying the United States sold chemical munitions to Iraq is because the United States sold both chemicals and munitions to Iraq during the Reagan years. You sound like this is a surprise. "The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague." https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/20 02/12/30/us-had-key-role-in-iraq-buildup/133cec74- 3816-4652-9bd8-7d118699d6f8/?utm_term=.ea6dbb95a76 2 | ||
| Toro |
Sifo. You accuse me of "claiming false quotes". What false quotes are you speaking of exactly? I have quoted from published articles. I think you are barking up the wrong tree Amigo. Regarding betting, I've got $100 that I would be happy to wager that Donald Trump is either going to... 1) resign. 2) be impeached. 3) be charged by the FBI The more Trump tweets the more I am confident that Donald Trump has something he is trying to hide. | ||
| Aesquire |
Sold both chemicals and munitions doesn't exactly mean sold chemical munitions. But, sure, condemn the strategy used by the fools in the Reagan administration. But first condemn Jimmie Carter for listening to his State dept minion who told James Earl that the Ayatollah was A Saint. Dispassionately this tells me State dept minions live in a different world than the rest of us. How many dead because of the Mirroring effect? (Message edited by aesquire on February 19, 2018) | ||
| Blake |
You're either a dupe or a liar Toro. Selling chemicals widely used for commercial pesticides doesn't equate to selling chemical munitions. Are you going to accuse America of selling chemical munitions to all the other nations who purchase the very same chemicals from American manufacturers? Wise up. Don't be a punk. Hey Toro. Why is your IP indicating Ontario, Canada, same one since you showed up here? | ||
| Aesquire |
Oh no. I was going to ask his opinion on the gulf of Tonkin incident. There must be a more innocent explanation than identity theft. That would be contemptible. ( it might explain the apparently instinctive victim play ) It's mildly annoying to have leftist Taqiyya rubbed in my face, if your implication is proven Blake. I'll continue on as if I was talking to an honest man with whom I have some disagreement. Only fair. I don't really know how to have a discussion with pathologically dishonest folk, other than politely point out errors. So easier and more polite to assume good will and honest effort. At least it's not all caps and bile. Poor Julie. She's starting to repeat. At this rate by summer she'll just be posting "I'm rubber and you're glue....." over and over. |
