| Author | Message | ||
     Fb1 |
Zane, some food for thought: Smith & Wesson M&P Shield, Compact or Full Size, in your choice of 9mm or .40 S&W:  M&P Shield 40 S&W (single stack)  M&P .40 S&W Compact (double stack)  M&P .40 S&W Full Size (double stack) All pix: www.smith-wesson.com I have experience with all three (in 9mm); all controls are in the same place and work in the same manner between platforms - if your muscles have memorized one platform, your muscles have memorized all of them. Best, FB | ||
| Sifo |
Consider Springfield Armory XD/M and XDs. Very similar to Glock in many ways, but same natural point of aim as a 1911. Like the typical Glock, they have no external safety. The XD/M is a double stack that gives great magazine capacity for a full sized pistol. The XDs is the compact single stack version that is easily concealable. Both pistols have a very similar feel and controls. Once you learn to shoot one, the other feels natural. Both can be had in .45 or 9mm. They've been a great pair for me. Having said all that, I've since fondled the S&W M&P pistols and they honestly fit my hands better. I wont dare shoot one until I'm ready to replace the SA pair. "Plastic" guns make great carry guns IMO. Less corrosion issues that can come from sweat and weather, and they are lighter on the hip. | ||
| Henshao |
Did I mention Kahr Arms are made right here in the USA? Worchester Mass of all places, hah | ||
| Reepicheep |
The KelTec P3AT with a DeSantis Nemisis pocket holster is a very nice setup for the money. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Greg !!!! I went to "my gun shop" and he has 3 NAA revolvers, one like your pic. I had one of these, years ago with rosewood handles and this one looks to be a lot nicer to shoot, i.e. a bigger handle. Oh yeah, they are really loud. I think I might buy it after I find a good/small .380 Z | ||
| Rick_a |
I can shoot 4-5" groups at 20-25 yards with my S&W snubs. Most such guns are quite mechanically accurate, but are fairly unforgiving of sight alignment errors and require good trigger control. More accomplished shooters are capable of doing amazing things with such guns. | ||
| Stevel |
Handgun choice is very personal. Often what feels nice and looks nice doesn't perform well. The modern alloy and plastic pistols fit in this category. In my experience, nose heavy pistols are easier to shoot accurately as they are much less sensitive to poor trigger technique. Lastly all holsters are uncomfortable to wear, some of course are better than others. No handgun should be considered for self protection in calibers lighter than 9mm. Lastly, if pocket carry is your preference, as it is mine, the pistol must be hammerless without any external protuberances that can snag clothing. Sadly, very few modern pistols fit that requirement. Please notice that this description pretty much eliminates a target weapon that works well on a range for either plinking or competition. A self protection, concealed carry pistol must be fast to deploy and reliable and still be able to hold 12" groups under stress at 25 yds. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I looked at a S&W Chief Special (.38 snub nose) and just laughed at the accuracy potential. Then I shot it. It must be quantum physics or something, because from a normal physics standpoint, there is NO WAY that gun can be as accurate as that gun always is. Even in the hands of less experienced shooters. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Counterpoint: I bought a S&W bodyguard in .38 special and can't hit shit with it! I just assumed it was me and continued to practice. One day, I was next to a talented guy at the range and we swapped. He did better than me but still not good. They aren't keyholing or anything. The bores look sweet and I am the first owner of the thing. I do well with my Llama .45 minimax, and am downright awesome with my Ruger MK1. Even my teeny .22 revolver will group better. I know the thing is for self defense up close but it's not confidence-inspiring. | ||
| Aesquire |
Sell it. A short barrel can be just as accurate as a long one. short radius sights otoh are harder. I've had rifles I liked the looks & trigger & handling. Didn't shoot well. Sold. Not claiming to be very good. So I had others verify. You have. Sell it. | ||
| Rick_a |
My personal faves are as follows: For a single stack subcompact I like the Shield:  For a double stack subcompact the Glock 26/27 is among the smallest/lightest and most practical:  For a mid size gun I don't think the Glock 19/23 can be beat:  For size/capacity nothing really competes. For a full size gun there are several options and everything in the $400 up range is good. For a budget blaster I like the Canik TP9SA.  For something more refined I really like the HK VP9.  For my own purposes my choices are a little different. I'll be picking up a Springfield RO Compact here in a couple weeks:  It fits the role of a single stack subcompact. For a mid sized double stack I have a CZ:  It's the nightstand gun and makes for an occasional carry piece. For a full size it's an accurized and customized Colt 1911A1. Colt now offers a few models with such features out of the box:  For a discreet waistband carry a S&W 649 fits the bill.  For ankle carry it's a J frame with a LaserGrip:  (Mine's not as fancy) For pocket I use the same with a boot grip.  For a OWB carry when permissible it's this big 45:  It's a classy and great shooting gun, with a reasonable weight that is surprisingly comfortable to carry. Mine's in nickel and I'd carry it more if not fearing the dreaded holster wear. The only thing I feel I'm missing is a longslide or competition style auto of some sort. The Glock 34 is the most popular among the professionals:  What I'm getting is yet to be determined. It could be a Canik, HK, Glock, S&W Pro Series, CZ, or CZ clone. | ||
| Generalcuz |
I have a glock, mostly because of a very cheap price I got from a course I took. It has definitely left me yearning for something more accurate. I have a family member who is a police officer and he pounds nails with his Glock, but I just suck with it. I just tried a 1911 Kimber and it was night and day for accuracy. It will be my carry gun in 2016 and I will relegate the Glock to nightstand duties. | ||
| Zane |
Currently I have the little Keltec for my pocket gun but at .32 ACP I just don't believe it's enough gun. Better than nothing but not much. I also have a Colt Officers ACP Lightweight in .45. I love this gun and shoot it well but it weighs 2 and a half tons. I almost never carry it any more. My son and I went to Bass Pro Shop last night to do a little window shopping. In particular I wanted to check out the Springfield line up. Got there about 7:30 and the crowd at the gun counter wasn't all that bad which surprised me. Then I got up to the counter. They weren't sold out of guns but there wasn't much left to look over. I talked to one of the sales guys and he said nothing is staying on the shelf right now. Said he's never seen anything like current sales. | ||
| Thumper74 |
The Canik TP9 has left a LOT to be desired for me. I'm shelving or selling mine soon. The first time I took it out, I didn't clean it. Jammed constantly. I don't think I've run a magazine through without some sort of malfunction. I had high hopes for it from all the reviews, but my experience has been less than great. I've been a CCW carrier since Ohio allowed it. I tried a full size XD9, but it was too much to carry without it being inconvenient. I then picked up a Keltec P32, which had TONS of issues until I found ammo that it likes. The KelTech, being .32 ACP, a semi-rimmed cartridge did not like hollow points or wad cutter type rounds. Google 'rim lock'. My GF carries a S&W Shield w/Crimson Trace. I picked up a Glock G43 recently. It's been flawless. I cleaned it before the first range trip and it's fed everything I've thrown at it, no issues, no hiccups. I seem to shoot it pretty well and hit what I'm aiming for. The recoil doesn't seem bad for what it is since it's still a pretty solid gun. Being single stack, it's been great for IWB. It would even be pocket carried in a pinch. I don't think you can go wrong with a Glock if you're looking for an appliance type gun. I love my Kimber, but I'm afraid it'll get scuffed. With the Glocks... I have a Ghost connector coming for it this week. I'll report back! | ||
| Tootal |
This I find hard to believe with that piece. I have fired snubnose guns before and the bullets seem to have a mind of their own after leaving the barrel. I just reread what I wrote and realized I said 20 yards!  Make that 20 FEET! Good catch! As far as the mini gun, the fold down grip is much larger than the regular grip so it's much easier to hold steady. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
OK. that's 60-75 feet. If you CAN do this on a regular basis, hats off to you. Most would probably be challenged to accomplish this on a consistent basis with their best shooter of the bunch, snub or not | ||
| Hootowl |
"Make that 20 FEET!" Whew! I was getting a serious inferiority complex! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The only reason I can see to have one chambered/safety-on is for stealth (which is important I will admit) ...call me paranoid but I wouldn't feel comfortable with a chambered weapon pointing at my junk (waistband carry.) | ||
| Hootowl |
Leave the chamber empty, and also carry cocked and locked. When you get home each day, note the number of times the hammer has fallen while it was in your pocket or other holster. I'm betting it will be zero. | ||
| Sifo |
Of course, guns like the Glock, Springfield Armory XD series, and some of the S&W M&P are designed to be safely carried cocked and chambered with no manual safety. No need to thumb a safety or rack the slide. Carried in a proper holster, it won't just go off. IMO the most dangerous part is putting it in the holster, making sure to not snag the trigger (quite difficult to do BTW). I've developed the habit to get my hand off the backstrap safety on my XDs when holstering it. It won't fire unless the backstrap safety AND trigger blade are both depressed before pulling the trigger. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Zane, many different choices out there and it seems you have some fair experience with shooting. Mostly its a personal choice, of course, and I DO like your choice of a Glock 30S. I have been a CC person for 25 years here in Utah and at first, being "old school" I carried a 1911 Officers model in .45 ACP. About 15 years ago a friend who owned a gun shop convinced me to try a Glock 30 and I was sold after some range time. A fine choice I do believe. With that said it wasn't perfect but with a few small inexpensive changes it became so. Of all the "new" pistol choices Glocks have been around the longest and therefore have the greatest amount of after market accessories for them. And info, maintenance and enhancements. I did three small changes the made it my weapon of choice for CC. I disassembled it completely, did a fluff & buff on all trigger parts, installed a Ghost 3 1/2# connector and got Glock 21 13 round mags. with a grip fillers. I use the stock recoil spring for carry and a lighter one for light practice loads. I spent less the $80.00 total and now its perfect for me. What all that did was add round capacity and a little longer grip for control. The work on all the trigger parts and the connector made the trigger pull lighter, brake more sharply and have a much shorter reset all adding to faster and more accurate shooting. It did consistent 4" groups with 5 different ammo choices including two of my hand loads at 15 yards, slow fire, from a rest with no malfunctions. My ammo of choice is Federal 165g. Personal Defense. It conceals well enough for me that all I need is a loose shirt, sweatshirt or light jack to hide completely in a high ride, canted forward strong side hip holster. I'm 5'6", 165#'s. Now for summer carry I have an AMT .45 Backup. (no longer produced). All SS 5 rd. mag. with one in the chamber gives me 6. DA only so no external levers, safety's. etc. Point & shoot. A little heavy but I can just put it in any pants pocket, even shorts and its not noticeable. Sometimes I use an inside the belt holster and a "T" shirt covers it well. One of, if not the smallest .45's available. Rather hard to shoot well but it IS a last defense backup for very close quarters. Again: Personal choice matters completely. If you want/need to carry a large HK USP .45 with 45 Super(.41 mag. power) rounds just use a fanny pack as I have done! One last very important thing. "I have never had to shoot either in anger or for defense". I will always completely avoid all confrontations if possible. Bob. | ||
| Tootal |
I totally agree with different tools for different threat levels:  As far as having all weapons to be similar is not a bad idea. I don't seem to have an issue switching back and forth, it's like as soon as it's in the hand the brain already knows which one it is and what to do. It's sort of like when I rode a Yamaha dirt bike and a 69 BSA. I could switch back the forth without issue even though the brakes and shifter were the opposite. Your brain is pretty amazing sometimes! | ||
| Henshao |
Once you "graduate" to a rifle mentality, all this handgun stuff becomes way less interesting. Which is too bad, because playing with rifles is even more expensive. | ||
| Zane |
Bob, Couldn't agree with you more about the choice of self defense handgun being a very personal choice. I've zeroed in on Glock because layout and operation is the same across their total product offering. Also Glock's reputation for reliability is pretty awesome. I'd still like to see the Springfield lineup and I do lust in my heart for both the M&P Shield and the LC9. So many guns, so little time. I may head back to a couple of gun shops tonight to see if I can have a look see at the Springfield XD lineup. On a side note my son has an interview with Cablea's next week. It's a brand new store just north of were we live. If he gets the job I wonder what kind of discount he can get? Grand opening sale, plus say another 20%.... I live in hope. | ||
| Aesquire |
I'd like to put in one word for you to go with all the other mostly excellent advice. Laser. Yes, Lasermax is one of my customers and vice versa. A laser both increases your chances of a first round hit and is a great training tool for dry firing. ( with all safety precautions. Please ) it shows your every wobble and teaches you trigger squeeze nicely. Also a laser greatly reduces the need for deadly force. Most folk get very emotional when there is a laser spot over the heart. Remorse, regret, feelings of acceptance and non violence. Talking to pros discuss the sudden lack of aggression when illuminated is illuminating. If they still are overtly hostile with a laser dot it still improves your position. | ||
| Mnscrounger |
Zane wrote "I'm a big fan of 19ll style handguns. I've owned several and shoot them well (for me). I'm not of fan of carrying cocked and locked. That's why I'm not just getting 1911 style handguns for this. " I used to feel the same way, but then I realized the addition of a firing pin block (series 80 style) meant no extra worries of AD from cocked and (not)locked Just to be safe my 1911 style pistol is a Para LDA, some like em, others don't but the trigger is a very light DA pull, with a clean SA break every shot. The only downside is how far forward the reset point is for the next shot. It is a difference you need to mindful of in training. | ||
| Zane |
Aesquire, I had not considered a laser. My thinking was that at the range where I'd be shooting, a laser would not be required. After reading your post, I'd say I was 1) arrogant and 2) short sighted. Just because I can pretty consistently 10 ring a paper target at 15 feet doesn't mean I can do that in a real confrontation. When the adrenaline is flowing, all bets are off. I had not even considered a laser as a training aid. Since I haven't shot much at all in the last 5 years, the need for training is gonna be pretty severe. I most likely will need all the help I can get...lol I may have to make lasers a phase two project because of price. Mnscrounger is correct about the safety of the series 80 models. It's just an emotional issue with me, not based of fact. (Message edited by Zane on December 09, 2015) | ||
| Hootowl |
My Kimber has the crimson trace laser grip. It's pretty neat, but for some reason, at the range, I'm better without it. Doesn't make any sense to me.  | ||
| Aesquire |
1911 safety internals vary. Series 70 Colts use a trigger deactivated firing pin safety. Kimbers use the grip safety ( design invented by Swartz for Colt ) & while I like it there is a lot of internet bitching. I assume from folk with troubles with consistent & proper grip. If I'm wrong on the above, please correct me. Rather give accurate advice. I love the Para LDA but don't have one. I'm looking. Preferably a Commander size. I'm not a 1911 fan for carry. But i have not carried one. Ymmv. Hoot is not the first I've heard doesn't like the laser "on the range". Where a laser wins is low light. Even with tritium night sights a laser is a major force multiplier. Lasermax makes wonderful recoil spring guide lasers for Glocks, 1911's etc. Use your old holster. Closest beam to bore. Titanium nearly indestructible. Also a good range for revolvers and for rails. Their low profile rail laser has a rail on it so you can attach lights. I bought the now discontinued Rem 870 light/laser setup, it's tough, bright & easy to adjust. I've used their guide rod models at the range on Glocks & Berettas. Other companies also make good stuff. Make sure your fingers don't block the beam on grip mounted lasers. Btw I "tested" the 870 light/laser ( without gun ) on a few buddies. All complained the light was annoyingly bright and most swore violently when they saw the laser dot when I let them try it. | ||
| M1combat |
My recommendation is to always carry a 5" 1911. They carry very well because they're narrow and rounded. I think instead of trying to find a pistol for every "carrying style" one should reduce their carrying styles to one and get the best pistol for that. Get good with that one pistol and you're golden. The only time I find a 1911 doesn't work is maybe when I'm wearing basketball shorts or riding a jet ski??? At the local swimming pool maybe? Other than those situations (which I find myself in about once every two or three years) a 1911 at 3:00 or appendix works excellently every time. |
