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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 09:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here, Tod may be of help.

The monoculture ( one crop ) farming is in many ways easier, and because of the Corn to Fuel subsidies, most profitable. There's a LOT of land that has Corn on it that probably should be fallow ( resting between crops ) or grazed or planted in something else. because Corn is King. ( I know, I was Born in Nebraska. The name of the Football team is The Cornhuskers. ) King Of Profit with Government Interference.

And don't anyone get their propaganda soaked panties in an uproar, no profit = no food.

You would not freaking believe what a tractor costs, much less the tools that they tow behind... plows, planters, sprayers, etc. And different tools for different crops. Harvester Combines ( that pick the crop and separate the part you eat from the rest ) are insanely expensive. In Western New York most farmers only have a tiny one for the odd shaped & small fields. A bit bigger one in the rest of the country, and the REAL BIG ones are owned by companies that follow the harvest 24/7 ( generally South to North ) and spend the rest of the year fixing the Big equipment. And it needs a LOT of fixing.

When they harvest the field across the street from me it's one 24 hour plus marathon, and it's not considered a huge field locally. So they don't use the big gear on it. And it takes longer.

I just sleep through the lights and the noise, it's a normal seasonal thing.

The point is that if you want to "Go Organic" you have to have a 30% surplus of crops to feed the planet, and I don't know that that's true.

Because of weird religious cults, ( in the West ) GMO food is rejected in some parts of the world, and people starve with warehouses full. I'm not a good enough biochemist to tell you that bio-engineered food is harmless and there is nothing to worry about.

There Is a small difference between the hybrid foods that mean the difference between waves of famine and a well fed planet, and plants we've manually stuck genes for desired characteristics into. ( usually resistance to Roundup, the weed killer ) And I suppose it's always possible that mans' Hubris will lead us to making a long term poison that wipes us out. ( although I'm more inclined to believe in a deliberate plague unleashed by eco-terrorists ) However, so far, they tell us that GMO crops are good. They certainly are more profitable.

One thing to remember. Without the Green Revolution, today the population would be Billions less, and the way that happens is millions dying horribly around the world in waves, as droughts and waves of crop disease take the food supply below the minimum to live.

It's the way the world worked for Thousands of years until we changed that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution

I remember when I was a kid, Kansas grew more wheat than the entire Soviet Union, and the only reason the Soviets stayed in power was we sold them & gave them food.

And another thing propping up that charnel house was Mao's genocidal decision to sell the Soviets rice in exchange for tanks, to "prove" that Maoism was better than Stalinism... and to this day the Chicoms lie about it... like they lie about everything.

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM

Among all the democide estimates appearing in this book, some have been revised upward. I have changed that for Mao's famine, 1958-1962, from zero to 38,000,000. And thus I have had to change the overall democide for the PRC (1928-1987) from 38,702,000 to 76,702,000.

I consider these numbers wildly optimistic. I bet you Mao's numbers are far closer to a Billion than 100 million. But, I admit, teasing verifiable facts out of public records in Communist countries is like estimating the profits of the Mob based on public book keeping records.
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 11:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-315 6594/Is-mini-ICE-AGE-way-Scientists-warn-sun-sleep -2020-cause-temperatures-plummet.html
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Tod662
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I got a smile out of you trying to explain to me the cost of a tractor, I bought my first one when I was 12( though a '37 JD A is slightly antiquated )I'll leave you guys alone for a while, 8 days ago I found a little property. With some amazing resources.I am trying to figure out the cash flow and a business plan, I don't think a couple motorcycles are going to be enough collateral but with a will there's a way.

Last ramblings - mono cropping is not cool, biodiversity is key to a healthy system. Corporate farms are farming the system, not farms in the system. An organic well managed soil with a healthy micro biology living symbiotically with diverse root structures and a good rotation can hold much much more water then dead chemfilled conventionally farmed dirt. I love dirt- I've probably ate a ton, but soil is the key to healthy life.

And I call bull shit on the organic salad being a bigger e coli risk. I couldn't find any creditable source for that assertion, that's scare tactics, big Ag worried that food can be grown without their poisons. (And the risk is literally bullshit which ain't allowed) and Kansas is a dust bowl because of mono cropping and the Ukraine has 8 feet of rich topsoil... Just sayin, but I just grew up on a Wisco OG dairy farm what would I know.
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Sifo
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Nope, just doesn't happen... E. Coli Outbreak Prompts Trader Joe’s, Whole Foods To Pull Packaged Salads Of course any source called "Organic Authority" is probably just anti-organic and funded by big oil.
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Certainly not the farmers fault. That's Big Business saving bucks and not cleaning the salad greens properly. And making a huge profit off "Organic" labeling. There has been some changes to make organic mean something other than "suckers will pay more".

I did not say organic salad is a bigger risk. I say several e-coli deaths and waves of sick people have come in the last years from organic packaged salad.

Also from a meat packing plant with bad layout and maintenance. Literally cow shit on the meat. Not organic farmers.
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I did imply gourmet organic pre package salad is a health risk..... assault veggies.

JD 430. Well used. I may do a full restoration this winter.

I wasn't telling You how expensive farm equipment is....that was for general knowledge. First time I saw a seven figure price tag on a harvester I nearly freaked.

Re: sun cycles.
If the theory is good, this is great news for science, and horrid news for civilization. 2022? So 6 to 7 years before famine, plague, war, pestilence. ...... That's not hyperbole. Off the cuff that's 2 plus billion dead without war over territory.

Not the civilization killer that a full on ice age has been but not a walk in the park. Dark age coming.

This could be mitigated a lot with proper planning and stocking of food and oil. I fear the short term power promise of Global Conning will prevent rational preparation.

Maybe I should get a gyro....
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Tod662
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 12:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok ok I'm trying to go away but sifo really that's your gotcha proof. Really that's like more bs then the pasture I rode my s1 through today. 26 people got sick NO ONE DIED. NO ONE, NOT ANY PEOPLE, ZIP, ZERO, NADA. Man you really showed me. That's like the worst atrocity I've seen since.. wait I just swatted a mosquito, that was more carnage then your amazing in depth addition to this discussion. Thank you so much for another riveting insightful post. 

Oh wait I didn't read the 2 linked articles 58 people and 33 people also DID NOT DIE. How horrible of the organic industry to fully disclose this, those evil cretins, gosh I don't blame you for not trusting organics, any industry that freely discloses illnesses in 119 people must be at like a Dick Cheney level of evil. You guys do realize he went on national tv and said yes me AND THE PRESIDENT knew about torture in gitmo, cuz he didnt want to be the only one going down for war crimes, right? (That probably sounds as ridiculous at what I'm dealing with here but you wait and see) the dudes so bad he threw his own pres under the bus. And yes it should be closed, the crack pot media circus your congressmen and the media whipped up, saying we couldn't risk have international terrorists in court in this country is pathetic. We are so great and mighty but we can't do that safely... I'm not fully articulating my argument but shoveling shit is hard work. I'm really not trying to agitate the slurrystore but I just had to elaborate on the "evil" quip. 

And you wonder why all the liberals have been ran off this sight, with such asstute counter points what chance do we have. Yeah I quit (for now) 

And if they had not been used to the sterile crud we accept as food in this country it would of been fewer but that topics opens up a whole other can of worms I don't have time to explain. Could you please just leave the bull shit to us professionals. 

Aesquire, im not sure your mini ice age argument holds any solid water because it was a more local event i believe, Australia and other locales did not experience the same drop in temp... jd 430 nice, id like more info ...1957 and 8 I believe they were made... 7 variations I think...v=veggies , h= hicrop c=crawler, u=utility, s= standard, i= industrial, t=tricycle..? The serial number will say. Last of the Dubuque built two cylinders except the diesel 435. 

And then I'm just going to bury my head in old skool till I have a new address... possibly, hopefully, maybe, bet you guys can't wait to hear more. 

Now would you guys please stop cuz according to the National Organic Standard: Regulation (§205.203(c)(1)) raw manure can not be spread within 90/120 days of harvest, and I'd hate to have to write you all up. 

https://youtu.be/nsDYAtKlsT4
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Alfau
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 03:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe I should get a gyro....
getting a life away from your computer would be smarter dork.
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Gaesati
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 05:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mini ice age and global warming, wow, maybe they'll cancel each other out. How fortuitous.
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 06:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

No, unfortunately. The slow fraction of a degree per century long term ( in human terms ) warming trend stopped. ...paused, 17 years ago.

We are still colder than it was a thousand years ago or the height of the Roman empire.

Another solar minimum on the order of the Maunder Minimum would be big suck.

I used to joke..... If you believe in Global Warming then you can't allow three billion Chinese to have SUVs. The only way to stop them is nukes. ... then you get nuclear winter. Problem solved as long as mass murder doesn't bother you.

Not a great joke. Greenies never laughed....
( Also it turns out nuclear winter was bad political science with not a lot to back it up. )

I keep telling folk. Cold bad. Warm good. Overall. If I lived in the Congo I might disagree.
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Sifo
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry Tod, I thought the bar was set at e coli risk, not e coli deaths. I guess it just doesn't happen if people don't die.

I really don't have a problem with organic farming. I don't buy into your silly assertions that it's just as productive as conventional, industrial, or whatever term one wishes to apply to anything that doesn't meet your definition of organic. I don't believe that any "side" has a lock on all best practices. This is your chosen topic though, and it's you that have made what appears to be some pretty ridiculous claims about productivity of organic farming. No point in getting further into it with you if you plan to go off an bury your head in the dirt.

Little Ice Age a local event? You aren't up to speed on recent research. Evidence of it has been found pretty much world wide. The "local event" thing is pretty much a fairy tale based on and euro-centered writings. I'm not saying that I buy into this prediction at this point. The global warming predictions have failed quite consistently and spectacularly though. This is a fairly new theory on prediction solar cycles. Time will tell if it turns out accurate. The theory of solar cycles being a major driver of climate has been proving itself a much better theory than changes in CO2 in recent decades though.

Back to organic farming for a bit though. What methods of pest control do you use?
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Reepicheep
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Your best post since you got here Tod was about your organic farming strategies and knowledge, and it felt like I could learn something when I read it.
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Sifo
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This one's for Tod...

New Analysis of Southern Hemisphere Temperature Reconstructions Confirms Global Little Ice Age
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If Australia was first settled by England in the 18th century, did the natives use Celsius or Fahrenheit to measure temperatures in the 16th ? Or the 11th?

I have nothing but respect for the natives, admire their skills, but don't recall an extensive written weather record.

I do lack respect for faked data and outright lies to support political theories.

One Thousand years ago the best makers of littoral combat ships did have some records of weather patterns in their operating area. That only stretched from Constantinople to Newfoundland, so it's not planetary, but it's the best we have geographically until perhaps the British Empire. Not a lot of precision measurement back then from them though. Mostly how stormy the Atlantic, North Sea, and Mediterranean was and how it affected trading and raiding expeditions.

Warm = good. Cold = bad.

That's been the pattern through history.

Now local effects, often catastrophic, from climate change can and have happened when temperatures rise or fall.

Greenland colony was abandoned when it got too cold to support farming and glaciers were scraping away previously useful land. Quickly.

Petra suffered a long term drought and desertification, in some part man made by over grazing sheep. Still desert. ( part of "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" was filmed in the ruins of Petra )
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Sifo
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have nothing but respect for the natives, admire their skills, but don't recall an extensive written weather record.

Exactly the point I was making when I mentioned Euro-centered writings. It's kind of funny how "science" manages to come up with theories like the LIA being a local event based on not looking for evidence world wide. I don't know for a fact, but I would give pretty good odds that the "local event" theory wasn't popular until they felt the need to cleanse the temperature history of it's inconvenient fluctuations.
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2015 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://poststar.com/mount-st-helens-still-steaming -holds-the-world-s-newest/article_7bf92344-177a-50 06-8f7e-e9e2316a097f.html
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Tod662
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 12:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

" What methods of pest control do I use"

Matters on the pest. Are we talking about heel flys, house flies, blow flies, rootworms grass hoppers, leaf hoppers, aphids, ants, termites, microbial or bacterial organisms, rag weed, pig weed, Canadian thistle, bull thistle, scotch thistle, wildlife, or the plethora of other bugs and diseases, toxins plants animals or beings that could hinder the health of said desired plant or animal?
And though I've never made my living from the ground I've been around people who have my whole life. The first time I drove a skidsteer I was in kindergarten and I got to go sell organic yogurt at the Capitol farmers market when I was 8. And driving up the valley our fields usually were not much weedy..er then the very well managed chemical layden, syntheticly nourished vibrant, often sick crops (field corn, sweet corn, pop corn soybeans, green beans string bans snap peas hay oats field peas, canning peas pole beans wheat barley veggies red clover white clover alfalfa Timothy grass rye grass, blue grass reed canary grass, orchard grass brome grass, winter rye, spring rye , etc. etc. etc. That we grew) (Through usually a much wider variety at home, many conventional farms may only plant 5-6 at most different crops/species) grown on neighboring farms. And I know a few people who have made a living no a life of it, some of the first dairy farmers to sell milk to a little company called Organic Valley. I could try to answer questions but I won't waste my time refuting cut and paste ideologies.
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Sifo
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 12:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I could try to answer questions but I won't waste my time refuting cut and paste ideologies.

Yes you could. But instead you use two paragraphs not answering the question "what methods of pest control do you use".

You may think that I have some sort of anti-organic ideology, but that is far from the truth. I'm all in favor of seeing best practices from various farming styles be tested and let what works best become the standard. This has gone on for generations. You however make some bold claims that just don't seem to match easily available information. You have done this on numerous other subjects too, where I know you are spreading bad information. I'll admit, that given your track record, I question what you claim to be true, especially when you evade simple questions like the above. But if you don't want to support your assertions, well, that's not my problem.

I thought you were busy buying some land. Of course, before that you weren't going to post unless we all agreed to watch your video. Whatever...
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 07:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Still waiting for cut and paste evidence that Organic has the same yields. So far the only evidence is a cut & paste from the guy you are arguing with.

Which gave a better number than I'd ever read.

Speaking of cut & paste, I can easily justify it because others have a much better way with words than I do. You have a 97% fetish of cut & paste UN Alphabet Soup Propaganda.

Cold times coming if they got the science right.

Will taxing you for power to feed a multi billion dollar scam feed the planet when Wisconsin has a much shorter growing season?
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Tod662
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 01:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Before you guys correctly stated that I am light on research and I had to spend my morning break finding this I have been going to recommend looking into the work and research done at the Rodale Institute.

this is a very balanced look at what is possible

http://rodaleinstitute.org/
http://rodaleinstitute.org/our-work/farming-system s-trial/

"""The Farming Systems Trial (FST)® at Rodale Institute is America’s longest running, side-by-side comparison of organic and chemical agriculture. Started in 1981 to study what happens during the transition from chemical to organic agriculture, the FST surprised a food community that still scoffed at organic practices. After an initial decline in yields during the first few years of transition, the organic system soon rebounded to match or surpass the conventional system. Over time, FST became a comparison between the long term potential of the two systems.

[AND THIS IS ALL AS I HAVE SEEN OVER AND OVER, DURING THE FIRST COUPLE YEARS OF A 4 to 7 PLUS YEAR ROTATION OF CROPS, YIELDS AND CROP HEALTH MIGHT SUFFER AS FARMERS ARE LEARNING HOW TO DANCE WITH MOTHER NATURE but it gets easier]

As we face uncertain and extreme weather patterns, growing scarcity and expense of oil, lack of water, and a growing population, we will require farming systems that can adapt, withstand or even mitigate these problems while producing healthy, nourishing food. After more than 30 years of side-by-side research in our Farming Systems Trial (FST), Rodale Institute has demonstrated that organic farming is better equipped to feed us now and well into the ever changing future.

STUDY FACT SHEET-

Organic yields match conventional yields.

Organic outperforms conventional in years of drought.

Organic farming systems build rather than deplete soil organic matter, making it a more sustainable system.

Organic farming uses 45% less energy and is more efficient.

Conventional systems produce 40% more greenhouse gases.

Organic farming systems are more profitable than conventional.

Although the Rodale Institute Farming Systems Trial is America’s longest-running side-by-side comparison of organic versus conventional farming, a number of universities have established long-term trials over the years. Between them all, we know that organic agriculture is more profitable, builds more soil fertility over time, and can yield just as much as conventional systems."""

and here is the whole report.(im going to have to read it soon)
http://66.147.244.123/~rodalein/wp-content/uploads /2012/12/FSTbookletFINAL.pdf

This is not propaganda it is research into sustainability.

Sifo asking a farmer how they deal with pests is like asking Erik Buell how to design a motorcycle.

There are ever varying weather, time, economical and feasibility considerations (and many more) that must be factored in. A major part of my job (as an organic certifier) is verifying the organic acceptability of "inputs". An input is anything that a producer wants to use on his farm. I think its pretty true to say that the point of all inputs is to promote or inhibit growth in a target organism on your property. We have a database that has 8000 products with a detailed explanation of how and where they can or can't be used. We also pay to use another larger database with only about 20,000 products listed. I was not trying to be contentious (and I am going to make an effort not to be) with my above post. I have limited time and many balls being juggled right now, i was trying to articulate that I dont have time to research and refute all ridiculous claims that can be found on the internet. And if you want to think the Rodale institute's work and many university studies including ones performed at my family farm are not scientifically sound (most professors were quit sceptical of the viability of organic ag and many still are)thats fine but I dont have time to research and debate the topic at this time.

The answers here can not be given in fox news style news bites there are many many factors involved. The answer to most pests is management, planting and cultivating crops at the perfect time (with mother nature not always leaving the right window open) and having a clean well managed operation. Healthy crops and animals have survived for many years and can do quit well for themselves on healthy soil. I keep bringing up healthy soil microorganisms and they are more important then most even organic farmers realize. This is a topic i would like to delve deeper it to but its a aspect i am still learning more about.

Organic farming is a constant experiment, farmers are always trying different crops, techniques, practices, animals, timing, and a thousand other variables. There is not one answer to any problem, there are many techniques and a farmer has to decide what works best in their situation. Both 170 grain boat tails and diatomaceous earth are great tools for the right species but a 30-06 does not (very efficiently) get rid of flies and Diatomaceous Earth will not deter deer.

I am trying to spend less time devoted to forwarding a researched view point but I can't in good faith not try to shed some light on a way of life that is so dear to me. Farming is not a 40 hour a week occupation, all farming and especially organic farming is a constant struggle of second guessing the weather, extremely long hours, management decisions that might literally cost you the farm, constant struggle and yet many determined people wouldn't give it up for the world. A farmer is a bookkeeper, a laborer, a veterinarian, a plumber, a welder, an operator, a manager, a soil scientist, a wildlife expert, a marketer, a weatherman, a carpenter, a mechanic, and a always a steward of the land.
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Paul Harvey had an oft played poem "so God made a Farmer". Worth a listen.

I'll get to your link when I get a chance.

I take it you agree with me on the madness of burning more fuel than you get out growing food to turn into fuel?
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Tod662
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 01:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

corn as fuel isn't sustainable, it was a way for corporations to sell more equipment and chemicals.

there are oil seeds that may be much more sustainable to turn into fuel though.

Organic Valley has been studying and testing it for a while. they have trucks that have turned a million miles on 100% biodiesel. I havent researched it enough personally to be sure about it.



http://www.organicvalley.coop/resources/videos/bio-fuels/

http://smallfarms.cornell.edu/2011/01/09/traveling-biodiesel-processor-boosts-self-sufficiency-of-organic-valley-farms/

http://www.organicvalley.coop/about-us/our-partner s/sustainable-biodiesel-alliance/

(Message edited by tod662 on July 15, 2015)
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Hootowl
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 02:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Organic farming systems are more profitable than conventional."

That I believe. Some people are willing to pay more for something because they're told it's better for them, even though both methods produce nutritionally identical products.

Bio diesel is great. Actually better for the engine. Naturally keeps the fuel system clean, though it is slightly less lubricous, and slightly less energy dense than traditional diesel. Most diesel in the US contains some bio, up to B5 I think, by law.

In fact, like the ethanol mandate, there isn't enough being produced in the US to meet the mandate, so we import it, pushing our ridiculous food to fuel waste of farm land and farm resources on the rest of the world.

I was really pulling for the biomass/fuel from waste/salt water algae energy boom. Lots of smart people trying to make it happen. But now I think it'll never be commercially viable. Not in the scale we need. I hope I'm wrong. I fear I'm right.
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Tod662
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The benefits to the earth are very great, and there are many micronutrients and such that can do interesting things. People have been healed from all kinds of ailments by switching to an organic diet. Can I explain this-nope. not right now. but i have seen first hand cases.
the main vitamin and nutrients might be similar but there are a ton of other micronutrients that interact in many ways and have healthy affects.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 03:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Be careful with declarations of cause and effect. You seem to struggle separating your desires, and from your hypothesi, and from real facts. I don't say that as a criticism or a judgement, just as an observation.

Nothing wrong with organic, and from a conservative standpoint, less manipulation and intervention in crops is desirable.

(Message edited by reepicheep on July 15, 2015)
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 03:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You do have to watch declarations of cause and effect.

Example. Gas magnets. "Aligns the molecular. ...blah blah"
Throw a magic magnet in your fuel tank, get better mileage.

Not really. You go to fill up and it takes less gas! Yeah!!!

But really you paid more attention to your driving, & the magic magnet takes up room in your tank..... so it takes less to fill.

Simply eating with attention to what you eat is healthier than random impulse junk food. Works most of the time. Could be that name brand, could be you just ate more fiber.
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Strokizator
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 04:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Cold times coming if they got the science right.
Wait a minute, I just bought a house in the UP and you tell me it will get colder, not hotter?

As far as organic farming goes, I've lived in the San Joaquin Valley since 1965 and if one way of farming proved more profitable than the next, the farmers would be switching en masse. When word gets out that almonds make more money than stone fruit, thousands of acres of nectarines are ripped out of the ground and almonds go in their place. Cuties and Halo oranges are going up everywhere. I haven't seen any organic stuff out there.
Now for my backyard garden, the fertilizers I used were organic but I wasn't a nut about anything.
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 05:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wait a minute, I just bought a house in the UP and you tell me it will get colder, not hotter?

That's not certain, but it's my bet, based on the latest theory of solar cycles.

just a Theory at this point, and in REAL Science, a theory may be wrong, and is then changed or discarded.

Keep in mind the Global Warming Theory appears to be a bust, since the models in current use cannot predict the past, so are utter B.S. at predicting the future. NONE of them predicted the "pause" that has been going on since 1998, and it's now obvious to those who pay attention that the annual "It's the Warmest Year On Record" announcement has been full of non-organic-chemical and cash soaked crap.

They change the numbers, ( fraud ) and actually make earlier years colder ( lie ) to make a publicity point. Plus, they list differences of .01 degrees with a collection of measurements only accurate to 1.0 degrees. Of course the number you come up with for an average planet's temperature is going to be part guess, and lots of guestimated correction factors, and that means you can lie like a rug. Change any assumptions and we're in a drastic cooling trend. ( I doubt it )

There's a roughly 11 year sunspot cycle. More spots, hotter Sun & Vice Versa.

The "Cold Times Coming" idea comes from a new theory on how the Sun works. A dynamo inside a dynamo. ( there may be 3 or more, we'll figure that out as time goes by )

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/15070 9092955.htm

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-na sa/2013/08jan_sunclimate/

Sunspots have a major effect on climate, and there's a weird relationship between sunspots, cosmic rays, and clouds.

Short, oversimplified form... when the sun is active, the gusts of solar wind push on the Earth's magnetic field, concentrating the field lines, and filling the space around the planet with ionized particles and radiation. in a sense, thickening our protective layers, while trying to push through. The denser layers absorb more cosmic rays from deep space, before they reach the air. When the Sun is less active, the fields and particle density is less, so more cosmic rays get through.

Clouds form when water vapor condenses around dust particles. Cosmic rays interacting with the upper atmosphere create dust particles for clouds to form on. More Rays, more very high altitude clouds, which reflect sunlight, even if you can't see the high haze.

So... less Sunspots, more cosmic rays, more high altitude clouds, cooler planet.

PLUS a less active Sun is a bit cooler, so cooler planet. PLUS the more active Sun has more high UV rays, which change atmospheric chemistry, more Ozone, etc... and there it gets more complicated than I can explain....

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/when-the- earth-was-warm-iran-will-get-the-bomb/

The current Theory is we are on our way to a bad solar minimum, possibly as bad as the Maunder Minumum, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder_Minimum

This is not to be confused with the Great Ice Ages, which are believed to be periodic and caused by orbital dynamics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles\

Those are civilization erasers, leaving nothing but cave men in their wake, so far. ( how grand a civilization there was before the last Ice Age is unknown. Could have been diddle, just cave men and bears, or full on Dr. Who Atlantis. Could be a ruin somewhere under the Antarctic Ice Cap with amazing remains. Or not. )

We don't yet have an exact time for when we go into another Great Ice Age, could be as long as 50,000 years, or maybe as short as less than 5000. I'm not worried about it.

the Mini Ice Ages created by solar variability, however, are recent history, and WILL happen again. Maybe in just 7 years. Big suck if the theory is correct.
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2015 - 05:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

But, there is more than that in our sky

https://altairastrology.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/a lgol-and-pluto-two-astrological-hobgoblins/

And... NEW HORIZONS!!!! Yea!!!!

http://xkcd.com/1551/
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