| Author | Message | ||
     Akbuell |
Sean- If you get a chance, try googling the FBI Miami shootout. Short version, 8 agents made a traffic stop on 2 suspected bank robbers, and a shootout ensued. The 2 suspects, though mortally wounded, continued to fight effectively, before finally dieing. Changed the way the FBI armed themselves, and their tactics. And not the first time a severely/mortally wounded person did not walk away, and did injure/kill police officer(s). Dave | ||
| Reepicheep |
If that is all confirmed, I wish every irresponsible media party inflaming the fires of mob violence with misleading information is first fired and then sued for damages. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
My apologies. I've never been shot! Had I been, and in the arm by a police officer, I'd like to think whatever stupidity led me up to me being shot ended right there. That it didn't for Brown struck me as perhaps the actions of a person of very little intelligence or crack high was all I was saying. Rocket in England | ||
| Thumper74 |
I saw the news release a little while ago. I don't like that anyone died, but I'm glad the officer seems to have been cleared in it. | ||
| Thumper74 |
AK, are you thinking of the LA shootout where they had body armor and were on painkillers? | ||
| Aesquire |
He's talking the Miami shootout where the criminals had body armor and a lot of firepower. 1986. April. | ||
| Akbuell |
The Miami FBI shootout was 11 April 1986. The suspects (Matix and Platt) both received mortal wounds, yet continued to fight. No body armor that I am aware of. The LA shootout is, IIRC, called the North Hollywood bank robbery. Full auto AK-47s, body armor. | ||
| Aesquire |
Ah, thanks. I was posting from my phone so didn't properly research the armor factor. The Miami shootout was the one the FBI did a big rethink on issue pistols after. What was the lesson drawn from the L.A. shooting? "Stopping power" is a much argued concept. Must be a thousand pages devoted to it..... | ||
| D_adams |
Heroes Behind The Badge YOU ARE OFFICER DARREN WILSON, FERGUSON P.D. by Marshall Frank Imagine this. You are a 28 year-old man with a bright future in law enforcement. You’re on the job in a small city outside of St. Louis, patrolling a predominantly black community for the last six years. You have received commendations for outstanding work and never disciplined for anything. You’re soft spoken, friendly to everyone and referred to in the highest terms of respect and honor by everyone who knows you. You’re on routine patrol one day. A call that goes out about a strong-arm robbery at a convenience store. As you’re nearing the scene, you spot two black males walking in the street, one of whom is quite large. You do your job and order them to get off the roadway. They ignore your order. You stop the patrol car. You are not expecting what follows. As you’re exiting the patrol car, the large male suddenly comes at you with a powerful punch to the face delivered by a humongous fist. In a split second, your whole world turns upside down. The large fellow starts walking away. He has just committed a felony. You’re stunned, in pain, confused, shaking. But you have to do something. You reach for your pistol and order him to stop. He doesn’t. Instead he comes back at you, challenging. He’s already punched you in the face. He’s unarmed, but the mere size of a young man, 6’4”, 300 pounds, is intimidating enough to realize you’re no match, physically. You are suddenly scared to death, fearful of being pummeled by this behemoth of an angry young man. As he nears, you panic and start pulling the trigger in his direction, two, three, maybe six shots, whatever it takes to stop him from maiming or killing you. The young man collapses. You don’t know he’s only eighteen years old. You don’t know he’s just committed a felony at a convenience store. All you know is that you’re shaking inside, injured and emotionally wracked because you just did something you hoped you would never do in your entire life. This had nothing to do with the young man being white, black or purple. You were just doing your job by ordering two boys off the dangerous streets, and from there, it mushroomed into an incident. You did everything the right way. But that doesn’t matter now. Fast forward nearly two weeks later. You have been villainized as a racist by everyone in local, state and federal governments. Angry citizens by the thousands are chanting for vengeance, declaring you as a hater of black people. The media is on a frenzy, stoking the flames of disorder as you flee to an undisclosed location because of threats to kill you. You are a symbol of the criminal justice system, but you see something else unfurling before your eyes as you read newspapers and watch television from your hiding place. You always thought the system was about evenness and fairness, where justice is determined in a court room where evidence is presented challenged and evaluated before judgment is reached. But that’s not happening for you. You’re different. You’re a white cop. The dead kid is black. You’re guilty. You are astounded at the responses by prominent individuals who seem to have already tried and convicted you, reaching conclusions before knowing the array of evidence. Governor Jay Nixon: “A vigorous prosecution must now be pursued.” Congressman Lacy Clay: “I have absolutely no confidence in the Ferguson Police or the County Prosecutor. I know we won’t get a fair shake.” Captain Ron Johnson, Highway Patrol: “I wear this uniform and I should stand here and say ‘I’m sorry.’” Al Sharpton: “Justice for Michael Brown and his family.” Benjamin Crump, family attorney: “They tried it with Trayvon, now they’re trying it with Michael.” Darrel Parks, Brown family spokesman: “The person who shot Michael should be on trial.” Attorney General Eric Holder: “I understand the mistrust. I am Attorney General, but I am also a black man.” You’re watching the purveyors of racial hatred signing petitions in a call for the removal of respected County Prosecutor from the case. Robert McCulloch has been elected four times in sixteen years by the predominantly black electorate with an impeccable record, including several successful prosecutions of police officers. But he’s not trusted because his father was killed by a black person fifty years ago. You’re seeing the beginnings of a lynch mob, setting the ground for a vigorous hate-filled prosecution hell-bent on seeing you in prison, or else. And if you are not prosecuted and convicted, the communities will burn, just like they did in L.A. and Miami. Everyone is on edge. And if you are not charged or fail to be convicted, the power of the federal government will step in by adding charges about violating civil rights. You’re going to prison, one way or another. Guilt or innocence is not an issue. It’s all about revenge. You now realize you will pay the price for all those racist cops in America who abused black people over the last century. You are sorry that you had to fire that weapon. You feel sorry for the family of Michael Brown. But no one is listening. You don’t matter. Everyone, from the top law enforcement officer of the nation to the street people, all declare the need for justice for Michael Brown. But justice doesn’t apply to you. No national figures are coming to visit you. No celebrities, no whites, blacks or Asians. You are alone. So you turn the channel to get your mind clear, and you see another issue stirring emotions from across the globe. An American journalist has had his head severed from his body by fanatics, though he is guilty of no crime. Your heart skips a beat. You see what’s coming. Welcome to America the beautiful -------------------------------------------------- ----------- For the PDF version of the above text, please visit: http://heroesbehindthebadge.com/PDFs/YOU_ARE_OFFIC ER_DARREN_WILSON.pdf www.heroesbehindtheadge.com (Note, the red, bold type is my emphasis and these worthless pukes need to go) | ||
| Blake |
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/20/former-poli ce-chief-speaks-on-latest-michael-brown-informatio n-released/ Interesting notion that the Feds are gradually actually leaking evidence exonerating the officer in order to prevent rioting. If that's true, then I've misjudged Holder and Obama and am happy to admit it! | ||
| D_adams |
I don't think you misjudged them. Unfortunately for them, sometimes pesky facts get in the way. | ||
| Sifo |
Pesky facts like this one? New Information Released on Michael Brown Case
| ||
| Reepicheep |
Not to mention Browns tissue appears to have been on the cruiser, exactly consistent with him being injured by shots being fired during a struggle for control of the officers gun. So to be clear, Brown apparently *was* armed, with the officers weapon, he just never had complete control of it. I do a slow burn every time I see "unarmed" as the sole modifier for Brown. It was one of the lesser relevant aspects of the event. We deserve better reporting. | ||
| Hootowl |
Will we see the usual race baiter suspects offer an apology for their rabble rousing when the grand jury declines to indict based on hard evidence? Will the idiot protesters/looter/rioters finally pack up and go home? Will the president and attorney general (part of the race baiter group, actually) apologize to the police officer? My guess...no. They will all still believe the thug was shot in cold blood by a racist police officer. They've gone too far to turn back now. | ||
| Court |
I always wonder where these folks were when I was shot 3 times and had the .38 Special shoved in my throat and the hammer pulled back. There's never a protester when you need one . . . . . Se la vie' | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Hootowl, you're a funny guy. The way I see it the only unknown is whether the violence spreads to other cities when the verdict comes down. I think it's safe to assume Ferguson and surrounding areas are going to erupt in violence, yet again. | ||
| Aesquire |
Is there a line on that in Vegas? I'd bet with Ferris. | ||
| Hootowl |
If this unfortunate fellow were black, Sharpton and Jackson would be all over this blatant abuse of police power. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/10/23/pennsylvania- police-repeatedly-mistake-man-for-alleged-cop-kill er-fugitive/ Alas, the poor sap is white, and is ass out. Except for the nice folks who are pitching in to buy him a car. Can you believe the police department's response, which was effectively: "he hasn't complained, so it didn't happen" ? | ||
| Xdigitalx |
It be messed up if this dude finally gets his car and dirtbag Frien ends up highjacking him and taking his car and ID and then that same cop lets him slide thru the roadblock ....ugh | ||
| Ducbsa |
For the real victims in Ferguson: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/10/fergus on_police_officers_urgently_need_our_help_.html | ||
| Swampy |
BTW...When is the verdict due out? I have been out in the twoles for the last two days and haven't a clue... | ||
| Sifo |
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FERGUSON _PREPARATIONS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAUL T&CTIME=2014-11-05-20-49-19 Funny thing, the community organizers that have threatened riots, now want a two day heads up on the decision before the "release" of the decision. This, so that they can prepare, and prevent riots. Why not simply start explaining right now, that you shouldn't riot because the police were put in a position where they had to shoot a thug? Sugar coat it how ever you like, but that seems to be the truth. Is anyone really going to be surprised when they announce that there will be no prosecution of the cop? There's already been a very long delay in announcing this, hoping the situation will have settled by then. What will an additional two days do? Sounds more like a passive aggressive threat from the community organizers to me. And they want to impose their own "19 rules of engagement" for the police to follow? How about telling people to follow the law? | ||
| D_adams |
Had an email forwarded to me today. Starting to wonder when the boots are going to drop here. Part of the copy/paste below is from here at http://members.boardhost.com/stlouiscoptalk/thread /1414373341.html This message was sent to me by a retired Major from the St. Louis Police Dept. He is not a man who frightens easily or is prone to wild hyperbole. Therefore, I strongly recommend that you take precautions and plan for the worst, and, pray for the best! This message is circulating. Passing it on for your information - for what it's worth. THIS WAS SENT TO ME BY A CAREER LAW ENFORCEMENT COLLEAGUE. HE IS NOT PRONE TO OVERREACTION. I FORWARD IT TO YOU FYI. RE: "A Safety Message For Civilians" A consensus of reasonably well-informed opinion has it that the the anticipated release date of the Grand Jury finding in the Mike Brown case is on/about Monday 10 November, probably after 2PM. National Guard, Army Reserve, FEMA and other federal agencies are deploying additional people to the St. Louis metro area in the two-three day period just prior to Monday 10 November. There does not appear, however, to be a sufficient degree of coordination among federal, state and local authorities to display a meaningful degree of learning from the race riots in Los Angeles or Cincinnati. Accordingly, the principles that governed the pace and scale of those situations can reasonably be anticipated to govern here, too. Local police are telling their friends and family that they'll have to be ready to be on their own for a period of several days after the Grand Jury finding in the Mike Brown case has been released. Meanwhile, as municipal leaders have been essentially silent on the subject, I know several police officers who are not only asking their wives to stay home from work and their children to skip school, but they are also getting their families out of town to the homes of relatives or to weekend places, farms, cottages at the lake, etc. This may or may not turn out to have been an over-abundance of caution, but it's wise to be aware that these measures are being taken privately as we see little meaningful advance preparation on the part of authorities. A great many police officers are disgusted with the lack of advance preparation, and word is beginning to leak past police friends and family. Last night a message thread approved by message board moderators was posted on St. Louis Cop Talk (see below) warning citizens to be prepared to take care of themselves. Mayor Slay has not said anything about readiness preparations for the coming lawlessness, but he did find time to complain to the media about a lawful assembly of open-carry advocates for whom no police presence was required and during which there was no violence or law-breaking of any kind. It should be clear that many elected and appointed officials are essentially trying to be neutral parties rather than siding with the law-abiding against the lawless. Police are expecting to be overwhelmed by the coming Fergusson troubles no matter what precautions they take. Have heard from several SLMPD officers that commanders have been planning triage approach to an expected flood of calls for service from citizens in the wake of violence stemming from the release of Grand Jury information in the Mike Brown case. The word has gone out that police will not be responding to a number of types of calls that would ordinarily bring police response. Squad leaders have been telling their officers not to do anything pro-active and to stay safe. The theme among working cops has been primarily maintaining officer safety. The New Black Panthers have promised to kill police officers and intel suggests a primary enemy tactic will be to lure responding officers into ambush kill zones via calls for emergency service. That tactic was used in the initial flare-up in Fergusson, and resulted in police not responding to a call to a residence on behalf of a civilian female who had been shot in the head at the protests. Lawful protest activities will be used as cover for a large number of violent crimes, including not only the expected looting and arson but also score-settling among tribal rivals, robberies, burglaries and other crimes of opportunity. There are elements that are out to destabilize society, and there are many street gang crews and common criminals who will seize the opportunity to take advantage of the anarchy. Finally, a heightened threat of Islamic terror attack is anticipated during this period of chaos when emergency response capabilities have been stretched beyond capacity. Violence is anticipated to be widespread and essentially beyond their ability to get under control without military assistance. A period of 96 hours or so of anarchy and lawlessness without consequence seems to be a consensus expectation, beginning approximately 4 hours after the Grand Jury finding has been released. If that comes to pass, the worst of the trouble will probably not be the first night, but more likely about 48 to 72 hours later, with sporadic flare-ups throughout. Intel suggests the violence-prone elements intend to use the lawful protesters as human shields. A body count is expected among all parties. For weeks, the enemy has been arming, recruiting people, bringing in reinforcement agitators from outside the region, laying in in supplies, getting comms, safe-houses and fall-back positions in place, and the target selection process has been underway -- scouting, probes and recon-by-force activities have been detected in far south and southwest St. Louis county as well as west of the Missouri River in St. Charles City and County. Gun stores, cell phone stores, and banks in particular seem to be high on the threat list (that makes sense, since it takes weapons, ammunition, communications gear and money to fuel a revolution). Understand that the threat profile is dissimilar from anything that authorities in this area have ever faced before, and that few in office understand the complete ramifications of that fact. No public leader at the federal, state, or local level has been able to get out in front of this situation, and all agencies are in a defensive posture, both from a tactical perspective as well as a political perspective. That means emergency services can only react and will not be able to mount any kind of effective counter-response. In turn, these circumstances very likely mean that many law-abiding citizens will be lumped in with law-breakers when the authorities clamp down. For some time now, the "Us vs. Them" mentality has been allowed to fester in our police departments; "John Q. Citizen" is viewed too often as a PITA if not the enemy on the part of the authorities. We'll likely see official under-reaction followed by panicky over-reactions, in which curfews, road blocks and other extraordinary measures will have the effect of causing harm to law-abiding citizens as authorities try to "restore order." This is the pattern seen before in similar events elsewhere and because authorities here are behaving in a manner virtually identical to the authorities in those other events, outcomes will be similar. Here is the thread from St. Louis Cop Talk: A Safety Message for Civilians Posted by A Concerned Cop on 10/26/2014, 8:29 pm If you don't have a gun, get one and get one soon. We will not be able to protect you or your family. It will be your responsibility to protect them. Our gutless commanders and politicians have neutered us. I'm serious, get a gun, get more than one, and keep one with you at all times. Re: A Safety Message for Civilians Posted by The Moderators on 10/26/2014, 8:33 pm, in reply to "A Safety Message for Civilians" We agree with and approve this message. Re: A Safety Message for Civilians Posted by .x-ucity on 10/26/2014, 8:53 pm, in reply to "Re: A Safety Message for Civilians" The message is already gone out. There are folks out there that have never owned a firearm and are arming right now. Many areas are becoming armed camps. This thing has gone viral and many are in fear of their safety seeing what is happening with the benign approach the leaders are taking. Re: A Safety Message for Civilians Posted by Concerned on 10/27/2014, 2:26 am, in reply to "Re: A Safety Message for Civilians" Are they seriously telling you guys to sit back while they potentially burn this city down? Will they do nothing if the looting and rioting starts back up? That's utterly ridiculous. Why are they being so soft now? All that it's doing is showing them that they can do whatever they want and get away with it. They're like children, they need to be reminded not to do something. Are they actually telling you guys to sit back and do nothing? That's baffling. Re: A Safety Message for Civilians Posted by wayner on 10/27/2014, 6:38 am, in reply to "Re: A Safety Message for Civilians" Again, I have a guy who works for me that's retired from LAPD. Tonight he repeated what he said before, standing down was the worst thing they did during all the rioting 20 years ago. If it hadn't been for armed shop owners and civilians the carnage would have been worse. No BS from a guy who's been there and seen it happen. Do not take any unnecessary risks. Plan to alter your work and transit routines. Stock up on essentials now. Plan for both sheltering in place and for evacuating. Set a mental trigger for when you will try to get out so you don't wait too long as most people do in such situations, finding themselves unable to get out. Know where you will go and by what set of alternate routes. Avoid the main pathways, as they will likely be clogged and scenes of violence themselves. Anticipate that there will be crowded and lines at the stores and bare shelves, much as though a hurricane were coming. Avoid trouble. If trouble comes to you anyway, be prepared to engage it and understand that you will be on your own. You will be your own first responder, and there is virtually no likelihood of timely backup from authorities who will be too busy trying to protect themselves to come protect you. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I'm glad I don't live out there. | ||
| Blake |
I predict no mass riots. Still wise to avoid undue risk, regardless. | ||
| Ducbsa |
Problem Solved! Just adopt these reasonable, common sense guidelines: http://twitchy.com/2014/11/07/safe-houses-no-tear- gas-no-riot-gear-ferguson-protesters-propose-riot- ready-rules-of-engagement/ My fav' is "Protestor demand #68 "time rioting counts towards fulfilling unemployment job seeking requirements" " | ||
| Aesquire |
My suggestion is to jam & monitor cell communications, raid the "safe houses" and prosecute to the full extent of the law all found within. Hold them all without bail, flight risk, known criminal intent, and I hope the "reverend" types get special attention. A M-61a1 mounted on an APC to deal with the riot may be over the top. M-19's too. But you can dream. | ||
| Aesquire |
The results of the inquest have been delayed. This is probably an effort to get ready for the burning. http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/07/ferguson-protest er-beaten-by-other-protesters-for-some-unknown-rea son/ http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/11/just-now-f erguson-business-boarded-up-national-guard-armored -vehicles-staged/ Abu Ottoman @RadioR_m Follow US Army National Guard vehicles are being positioned in St. Louis to crush blacks Who've been protesting killer cops. 9:43 PM - 7 Nov 2014 I'm mildly curious, does Abu support Putin in Ukraine? ISIS? Convinced that NASA faked the moon landings? http://fox2now.com/2014/11/06/ferguson-power-outag e-caused-by-a-vandal/ The locals have figured out the bad guys are the professional protesters. | ||
| Ducbsa |
"A M-61a1 mounted on an APC to deal with the riot may be over the top. M-19's too. But you can dream." Napoleon called that sort of thing a "whiff of grape(shot)" and had the same intent. A non-politicized DOJ would be more appropriate. | ||
| Aesquire |
I fully support the right to protest injustice. I even agree that there is a historical, and present injustice, in law enforcement, from small town Boss Hogg to Eric Holder's Very Criminal Justice Dept. Ferguson is a case of professional communist agitators causing violence to destroy western civilization. Even though most of the Useful Idiots don't know what the motives of the greedy ruler wannabes really are. Power and wealth at the expense of the Peasants. Just like 10,000 years ago. Progressive my shiny metal.... The People running the riots don't care how many get hurt, in fact they love the idea that people they fool will die to give them more power and money. |
