| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
I remember reading about this bike in Hot Rod magazine back in the early 70's (they used to have a motorcycle column) and I found one photo of it in a "coffee table" Harley book many years ago. I found a couple of photos of it on-line tonight.   It's a prototype Sportster Harley built in the early 70's. The engine was apparently a 750 cc, single overhead cam unit, with offset cylinders (no knife-and-fork rods). The bike's styling isn't that great (this bike would make a damn nice cafe project though) but the engine looks really good. Imagine that? Harley actually trying to build a "performance" Sportster. Too bad they didn't put this into production about 1975. Imagine the bikes Buell could have built if they could have started with this engine. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
really small gas tank! | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ I wonder if that's not an airbox? Looks like it has a downdraft carb between the cylinders (just like an XB). It could be a wet sump engine (no separate oil tank) with the gas tank between the covers under the seat. | ||
| Rick_a |
It would have been rejected, flopped, and worth a bunch to collectors thirty years later. Hell, you try to sell a guy on a nice set of two into ones and they accuse you of trying to turn their Harley into a "Jap Bike." | ||
| Blake |
Interesting. Not so good looking though. | ||
| Buellish |
It looks like they "borrowed" the engine design from Moto Morini. http://www.bikeexif.com/moto-morini-motorcycles | ||
| Crusty |
The bike pictured was developed by the H-D Race shop in the early - mid '70s to counter the threat posed by Yamaha's XS-650 based dirt tracker. The Yamaha was making over 90 HP while the XR's were making horsepower in the '70s. Dick O'Brien was the head of Harley's Racing Department, and he wanted a bike that would be capable of competing with the Tuning Fork bikes. It was a SOHC 60° twin. The Morini referred to was a pushrod twin with Heron heads, and had nearly nothing in common with the prototype pictured above. If you can find a copy of Harley Racers by Allan Girdler, you'll see lots of interesting bikes that never reached production, including the one pictured above. | ||
| Buellish |
Gosh Crusty,it sort of looks like a Morini and there's the offset cylinders. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
The H-D museum has a wall of engines. REEEALLY jaw-dropping. Single cylinder 500cc knuckleheads, liquid cooled V4s, all sorts of things tried and then not used. I would post the pics but if I resized them for this site, the detail would be lost and it would be pointless. | ||
| Aesquire |
Reminds me of an early Virago Engine. Basically 2 thumper jugs on a V twin crankcase. The early ones looked good IMHO, then they seem to have done a "focus group" idiocy and started looking like bad HD copies, complete with random chrome bits tacked on. I did have a soft spot for the 920 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_XV920R which seemed to prove that you can't sell sport tourers in the US. Yes, there were many flaws in the Virago of any era. Yes, it had rustomatic pipes and pita non-adjustable carbs that made aftermarket pipes and power far more work than on most. And, yes, later models had a bad case of the uglies. Same thing seems true of the Suzuki Intruder. The Original was a US design, and was very clean in styling. Later versions got pretty hideous, and never regained their popularity. | ||
| 86129squids |
 ... Somehow that engine DOES look like a Yammie Vtwin. I kinda liked the early Viragos, the 535's were a good bike for inseam-challenged folk. Agree also on the Intruders. The first, maybe also 2nd-year 750's sometimes had a nice mag wheel option, and the early 1400's were so cool, they even ran 4-speed trannys! I bought a few of those when I was working for a metric wholesaler, gobs of torque, and no real need to shift gears much. And yes, they got fugly in the late 90's. | ||
| Tootal |
Yes, there were many flaws in the Virago of any era. Yes, it had rustomatic pipes and pita non-adjustable carbs that made aftermarket pipes and power far more work than on most. And, yes, later models had a bad case of the uglies. And don't forget the lousy starter! I worked on too many of those! That being said, I wasn't too thrilled about the non cruiser model but as I got older I actually got to like the looks of it but they no longer made it. | ||
| 86129squids |
Hmmm... never knew about that 920R, actually pretty cool looking. I'll add that to the list of oddball Jap bikes I'd like to have. That thing should have plenty of torque, bonus points for the enclosed chain-drive! | ||
| Buellish |
A friend of mine had an XV920 Yamaha,it was more standard than cruiser.It did have that box of rocks starter though. | ||
| Hughlysses |
The H-D museum has a wall of engines. REEEALLY jaw-dropping. Single cylinder 500cc knuckleheads, liquid cooled V4s, all sorts of things tried and then not used. I would post the pics but if I resized them for this site, the detail would be lost and it would be pointless. I found this pic on-line; the engine that's the subject of this thread is at the top center of this pic. This version looks slightly different than the ones I posted. The Nova V-4 is visible just in front of this one.  | ||
| 1313 |
Here's a cropped pic from one of my visits to the H-D Museum:  That was back when I would patronize such an establishment, 1313 | ||
| Hughlysses |
Thanks for the photo, 1313. It definitely seems to have all the same key features as the engine on the bike in the photos I posted, but there are some significant differences as well- the primary cover (apparently on the right side of the engine) is different, and it has dual side draft carburetors vs. the apparently single down draft carburetor on the bike at the beginning of the thread. I suppose the engine in the bike could just be a mock-up, or an earlier or later prototype. | ||
| 46champ |
In my book Harley Racers by Allan Girdler dated 1987 The same pictures That Hughlysses posted are in the the book with the story of the XR replacement engine. The bike and engine in the picture predate the phase 3 XR. These pictures were from 1971 and was suppose to compete with the Triumph and BSA triples and the Honda 4. The project was canceled by AMF after the purchase. The engine was a 55 degree 750. The phase 3 XR was a later engine that the racing department started designing in about 1975. At the time the book was written no known pictures of the phase 3 engine were known to exist so when someone brings up that project they bring out the pictures of the earlier bike probably because they sound the same SOHC 750. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Dana- wow, the story gets even more interesting. TWO separate air-cooled, SOHC V-twin projects from HD. | ||
| Bgbrd |
Look at the rear mounting bolt pattern. Looks as though it was made to bolt into a sportster(or tuber frame!!!). Makes you wonder What if? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Yea, it's sad that pre- ~1980, HD actually was interested in building performance motorcycles. Somehow, when they decided "heritage" was their sole marketing strategy, they decided that "performance" wasn't a part of that. (Message edited by Hughlysses on August 13, 2013) | ||
| Elsinore74 |
Thanks for all the info. I grew up around H-D big twins and never knew of any canceled prototype motors except the Nova V-4. It's sad to look back at the coulda/shoulda/woulda of H-D. Afraid they've painted themselves into a corner when it comes to their lineup. Good thing the majority of their customers are satisfied with the status quo. Even more recently, their models that appealed to me (FXRS-Sp Sport Glide, VRSCR Street Rod, XR1200X) were the ones they couldn't give away, and were discontinued. | ||
| Crackhead |
And unfortunately for HD (but fortunately for EB) HD decided to discontinue Buell instead of using Buell as the performance division. Anyone else notice that the Blast motor is up on the wall while the XB is not. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Anyone else notice that the Blast motor is up on the wall while the XB is not. Speaking of which, whatever happened to the rumored Blast replacement we heard about at least a year ago? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
there are a few spy photos and concepts out; Rumor out of India is that the 500cc is a V twin http://tinyurl.com/n867ba7 | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ Interesting, but I'm highly skeptical HD had anything to do with that bike. If you look closely, you can see the radiator and cooling fan between the frame downtubes. In fact, the entire powerplant looks just like my Honda VT500FT Ascot. Radiator/fan placement and header pipes look identical. Spy pic:  Ascot (not mine, but one just like it):  | ||
| Hootowl |
I had an 83 VT500C (Shadow). Great bike. I rode the piss out of that thing, and it never failed me. Only thing I ever had to do to it was replace the clutch cable. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I always loved the Ascot - thought it would make a slick flat tracker ; just a little tweaking.... yum. ended up with the 700 Nighthawk S instead. The bike that got me kicked out of the house - 'You will kill yourself on that thing! As long as you are under my roof - you will not have that bike ' easy peasy. would love to have one again would really love to have MINE back again- If I ever find the somnabiatch that stole it...... grrrrrr still miffed at that. |
