| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Dave, Why was our federal govt constituted? | ||
| Blake |
Should my wife and I be free to refuse medical insurance in favor of investing our money into our new business? Or should we be forced by the federal govt to purchase medical insurance and forfeit investing our own money into our business to give it the best chance for success? Which is on the side of freedom and which is tyranny? | ||
| 99savage |
Buellinmke George Romney, the father of the latest Republican loser that you voted for, was born in the Mormon colonies of Mexico because they were polygamous. That means Mitt Romney's grandfather had multiple wives. How horribly sad. “sad”, why “sad”, I mean really, why “sad”? Multiple wives assure that the most genetically fit males get to procreate and the inferior males do not. – Win for the species Multiple wives reduce the burden on women; several women can cooperate in nurturing a family and have only one male to contend with. – Win for women. Multiple wives increase the likelihood of the male of the household in obtaining sexual gratification. – Win for the fittest males. The inferior males are more likely to become homosexuals – Win for homosexuals. I ask again, “sad”, why “sad” | ||
| Cityxslicker |
yeah for Texas... and anyone thinking that Texas should be seceding - would not be in favor of California joining their side - unless that swamp was forcibly taken and drained. It is a quagmire that should left to its own devices - the only thing it has going for it is some nice roads and scenery. | ||
| M2nc |
Wow! This was never intended to be a real attempt to secede from the union, but to gain the attention of the government and the fiscal responsibility they need to take. I found it ironic that this story made the local news here tonight. They reported that folks here in North Carolina too had entered this non-binding Internet fun. Interesting fact they pointed out that here in North Carolina it is illegal to actually petition the state to secede, something past by the state legislature not long after the civil war. As an independent I believe the best course for America is somewhere between Republican and Democrat. I want a government that has parts controlled by both parties and this status quo vote seems to me to be the closest to the moderate that I am. It seems that my fellow non-colored delegates agree with me considering the outcome of this election. If tea tippers would allow compromise, basically a must now, we can get a fair and balanced way out of this fiscal cliff we must cross. Remember the last balanced budget this country had was with a divided government like we have now. Give all the power to one party, any party, and fiscal imbalance follows. The party only dictates the direction of the imbalance, not it's existence. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
i got a good laugh last night. Was on lunch break and went to a local BBQ joint (well, a chain place that was down the road, whatever). Im finishing up and this man comes in, about 40 or so, and has three kids with him, all girls. Two are twins, around 10 years old, the third is much younger. As they enter the two twins are talking about how exciting this is, that we might be our own country soon, just as soon as 25000 people sign this online petition.... this is the future of America. And it gets worse - the dad, who I could tell did not believe what his daughters were saying to him about this, asked, "well what would we name the country?" one girls response, "how about NObama" Oh for F's sake. Blake - again, no one is FORCING you to be ok with homosexuals getting married. Your church, or anyone elses, doesnt have to sacrifice their beliefs because of this. They can simply say they dont approve and not perform the ceremony there. Its not that difficult to understand really. | ||
| Sifo |
George Romney, the father of the latest Republican loser that you voted for, was born in the Mormon colonies of Mexico because they were polygamous. That means Mitt Romney's grandfather had multiple wives. Someone must have failed proofs in HS geometry class. I don't know if Mitt's grandfather had multiple wives or not. It doesn't matter. This is not proof, in any way of his marital status though. They can simply say they dont approve and not perform the ceremony there. Its not that difficult to understand really. It is that hard to understand, because it doesn't end there. They're tax dollars will then be going toward promotion of gay marriage, just as now tax dollars go toward promotion of traditional marriage. Why is that so hard to understand. I wonder who's idea it was to promote marriage with the tax code in the first place. I know it was done with good intentions, but what road does that pave? | ||
| Sifo |
All 50 states now have petitions to secede. White House ‘secede’ petitions reach 675,000 signatures, 50-state participation So if we are a government by the people, how can the government refuse to dissolve itself, if that is the choice of it's people?  | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Personally I think those of you who are resisting gay marriage & regulated abortion are denying others their choice & freedoms to enforce a point of view that does not directly impinge on your lives. But that's just my opinion, ranting at me won't change it so please don't bother, it's been covered endlessly in other threads too. The next question arising in this train of thought is this. So what happens when you've had enough of the Federal government & your state votes massively to secede from the Union, but refuses to take a stand on these issues? Do you bite the bullet & accept "The will of the people" ? Do you leave your home state to continue living in the USA? Do you become an underground resistance fighter battling to right an injustice (as you see it)? Bear in mind you will be called terrorist by those who disagree with your point of view. There's so many unanswerable questions related to this issue. PS. Why would people can worms anyway? & if they did, why would you open one, new or not? | ||
| Hootowl |
I'll ask again. Why do I have to have a permit from the government to get married? What business is it of theirs? Flat tax. Everyone pays. No deductions. No incentives for having children. No incentives for being married. Stay the hell out of my life. Our tax code is a social engineering experiment gone haywire. Enough already. I guarandamntee you if everyone was paying 15% federal tax, there would be no deficit, no debt (because we would not have an entitlement state) and everyone elected to Congress would be penny pinchers. Texas has no debt and no deficits. When there isn't enough revenue, the folks in Austin (are you sitting down?) ONLY SPEND WHAT THEY HAVE. There was a 36 billion dollar shortfall a few years ago, the money wasn't borrowed or spent. The world did not end, and the Texas economy did not implode for lack of government spending. Meanwhile, the US is on track to borrow another $1,000,000,000,000 this year, and the government is signing my name on the loan agreement. This CAN NOT go on. | ||
| Sifo |
I'll ask again. Why do I have to have a permit from the government to get married? What business is it of theirs? Flat tax. Everyone pays. No deductions. No incentives for having children. No incentives for being married. Stay the hell out of my life. Our tax code is a social engineering experiment gone haywire. Enough already. I'm glad that someone else sees this. Yet for some reason, those who complain the most about the government being involved in our bedroom lives, are those who insist the most that government get more involved in our bedroom lives. | ||
| Hootowl |
Posting a controversial remark and then asking that no one respond is a bit pointless, don't you think? "Personally I think those of you who are resisting gay marriage & regulated abortion are denying others their choice & freedoms to enforce a point of view that does not directly impinge on your lives." By that logic, you should have no problem with murder, as long as you aren't the one being murdered. Murder is OK, as long as it is regulated? Someone is raped, becomes pregnant, and murdering the child, an innocent victim, is an equitable solution? | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
This thread is about secession, you want to debate abortion, that's a different issue. I don't apply linear logic, you may do so if you wish. I research & evaluate the information I find on any particular subject with an open mind & formulate my personal opinion. I don't apply my opinion of one subject to another. I made no mention of murder. I'll put my own words in my mouth, you keep yours. I'm afraid I don't see anything controversial in those words, I clearly stated that it's my personal opinion, it's no more or less valid than yours, or anybody else's for that matter, where's the controversy in that? The point that I was making & which you ignored is that secession is by no means a simple affair of red & blue or economics. | ||
| Hootowl |
"I made no mention of murder. I'll put my own words in my mouth, you keep yours." You most certainly did (which brought us off topic). You said abortion. Abortion is murder, there's no leap in logic to go from one to the other. And that is not an opinion, it is a biological fact. The act results in the death of a human being. It doesn't really matter what we choose to call it. However, the topic of abortion is topical, as it speaks to other portion of your post related to secession: Federalism and the rights reserved by the states (which is all of them not specifically enumerated in the US Constitution and delegated to the Federal government). Some states choose to make the premeditated murder of a human, who just happens to be on the other side of the uterine wall than you and I are, illegal. The federal courts say they can not do this, and have to allow the murder because the mother has a right to privacy that trumps the right of the soon to be murdered human's right to not be murdered. Now, a plain reading of the constitution clearly gives us all the right to life. Nowhere does it say that your right to privacy is supreme, and trumps another person's right to live. Conservatives have more issues with the federal government than matters of finance. It runs way deeper than that. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
NO you're wrong! I did NOT mention murder! READ THE WORDS!! YOU associate abortion with murder "Abortion is murder " your own words. That's your opinion, you're perfectly entitled to it, I don't say you're right & I don't say you're wrong, I hold a different opinion to you, as do many people. So STOP trying to put words in my mouth. As for saying that I dragged the thread off topic, I thought I was doing the opposite, integrating the previous anti gay marriage & abortion threads into the secession discussion, oh well, can't please everyone. I respect your opinion & beliefs without trying to belittle them, & you have just stated, as I did, that in your own words, It runs way deeper than that. On that we are most certainly agreed. | ||
| Davegess |
I am going to stay out of this, it is pointless. So far I and friends of mine have been insulted and I really don't have tiem to waste on this. I need to concentrate on geting my job done and finding a new one. | ||
| Hootowl |
"Abortion is murder your own words. That's your opinion" Again, not an opinion. A life is intentionally ended. That is a fact, and no amount of verbal gymnastics can alter it. Like I said, you can call it whatever you want. It is what it is. | ||
| Buellinmke |
Anyone that wants to secede is free to renounce their citizenship immediately and leave the country that you no longer recognize. Your time is over, you are no longer relevant, you are the past. You can live in the 18th century over in Iran along with the rest of your buddies that hate homosexuals and demand that the government bow to religion. Otherwise prepare yourselves to be crushed by the gayroller:  | ||
| Macbuell |
Oh Jeez, why did Abortion and Religion have to be brought into this conversation. I don't care about abortion or religion and I certainly don't care what law abiding citizens do in their bedrooms. My issues with our Government are tied entirely to the fiscal insanity that is running unchecked DC. We will run this country into the ground if this keeps up. If you don't think so, please tell me what is happening in Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and on and ••••••• on. European Socialism is a failure. But hey, lets just keep giving everyone, everything (such as Free Cell Phones. Why do we need to give out Free Cell Phones?) and worry about how to pay for it later. That always works well in the end. You Progressives that are pretending huge debts and deficits don't matter are really in for a rude awakening and when that day comes, you will have no one to blame but yourselves. | ||
| Hootowl |
Those issues are in play. It is the entire Progressive agenda that is driving talk of secession, not simply the out of control spending by Progressives. | ||
| M2nc |
So if we are a government by the people, how can the government refuse to dissolve itself, if that is the choice of it's people? Could be something to consider if you can reach a major majority of the people (66%). At present the dissident count is about 2/10 ths of one percent of the population. Just a reality check. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Wasn't 2/10 about the catalyst for the original American Revolution ? - and considering the ones that I know, versus the ones I know of - I like our odds. http://www.lifenews.com/2012/11/01/obama-admin-tel ls-court-hobby-lobby-must-obey-hhs-mandate/ | ||
| Sifo |
M2nc, The point wasn't how near to that we are. The point is that people are saying that the Civil War settled that states can not secede from the union. I would acknowledge that the civil war demonstrated that blood can be shed to the point of capitulation, but it did nothing that I'm aware of to settle any legal issues of secession. A union by choice for mutual benefit is always going to be a union under duress. We are tipping the scales to where states are feeling duress. Not a good thing IMO. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What happens when the unemployment rate continues to climb? What happens when the che is start to bounce? What happens when the riots start? What happens when the government steps in to put the riots down for the "good of the country"? What happens when law abiding citizens are contained along with the criminal elements? We don't need to ask for the right to secede. We secede because we have no choice and are the government to do something about it. If a state announces that they are leaving the union because the majority of citizens in that state have voted to do so, the Federal government will smash that state. Others will follow in short order at the outrage of what has been done. The silver lining is that by the time Obama is done cutting our military, they won't be in much shape to enforce anything. Cut the military by $500B. Raise taxes. Borrow another $1.4T. Burn the bastard down. Let's not pu$$yfoot around. This slow creep BS sucks. | ||
| Thumper74 |
Grumpy, I agree. The best course of action is probably in the middle. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Thumper, you'll have to develop your Canadian accent.  | ||
| Blake |
>>> Blake - again, no one is FORCING you to be ok with homosexuals getting married. You no read good. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Your time is over, you are no longer relevant, you are the past. Fascism is the natural next step from "Progressivism." We'll played heir Joe. It takes a strong will to show your true colors so clearly. "Tolerance" for all who agree with us isn't tolerance, it's facism. Hitler would be beaming with pride. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Lets go a little further & ask a few more questions. Say for example Texas leaves the Union. The following questions become immediately urgent. What are Texans going to use for money? Dollars are backed by the Federal Reserve & Texas is no longer part of that system. Border control, How you going to do it? & who's going to pay for it? Citizenship, how will you define it? will you need to have been born in Texas? or will a grandparent be enough? Will those who have no blood connection be accorded citizenship? If so under what criteria? the length of time you've lived there? how long will that be? Will those that suddenly find themselves ineligible for citizenship be expelled? Then there's the other side of the same coin. Will Texans living outside of Texas suddenly need a green card, or will they be interned & have their assets seized? Will Texan owned businesses outside of Texas be allowed to continue to function normally? & conversely will US owned firms still operate in Texas? Do people that live in the border zone get special treatment as they have family & friends on both sides. How will you control smuggling? Will Texans currently deployed with US forces have their weapons taken away & be expelled from the military? Where do you stop? Where do you draw the line? I don't believe that in this day & age with all the meshed social, communication & production infrastructure that such a thing would be possible. At the time of the last civil war most everything was produced more or less locally & people didn't instantly communicate over vast distances. We don't live in the same world anymore, take the Auto industry as an example, parts come from Canada, all over the US & Mexico to make "domestic produced" vehicles. How will that work with another layer of independence to deal with. You've seen job migration already, how do you think all that will be affected? Some of you may be thinking, "••••••• tosser, what does he know. He ain't from aroun' heare." Let me tell you, I've already seen it all with my own eyes here in Europe. Best of luck with it all, & if any of you need a place to lie low for a while, I'm sure we can arrange something.  | ||
| Blake |
>>> I certainly don't care what law abiding citizens do in their bedrooms. What does that have to do with anything being discussed here? We might as well proclaim that we don't care what law abiding people eat for breakfast. The issue is one of forcing people to recognize and tangibly support a wholesale redefinition of the institution of marriage and to do so in direct blatant conflict with long held religious standards. Some here apparently want to pretend that this is not an issue because it may not have happened yet in their state. They conveniently ignore what has already happened in some states and what is likely given the president's new policy on the issue and his willing failure to defend existing law on the issue. We now see a federal govt tyrannically forcing a long established Christian religion to violate their core understanding of G_d's will, yet people--they even call themselves "Americans"-- ignore, excuse, and even re-elect the tyrant responsible for such an outrage. Then when we object to the blatant violation of our unalienable rights, we are dismissed, told to leave the country, that our time is past. Others burry their head pretending no such issues really exist. I'm not sure which group should be held in greater contempt. When the federal govt of America fails to defend our unalienable rights and instead concocts new "rights" out of thin air, "rights" that blatantly violate our clearly enumerated unalienable rights, failing justice, then what is there for honorable G_d-fearing men other than secession or revolution? Let's hope and pray that justice prevails. "To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." |
