| Author | Message | ||
     Johnnymceldoo |
Electric will start looking better when our fuel costs as much as it does in Europe. No one especially in government wishes for that though. | ||
| Aesquire |
No one especially in government wishes for that though. Actually, that IS the governments policy. It's on record, they WANT Euro-cost gas. Secretary of Energy. Want a link to him saying exactly that? That's why the Volt is programmed to be an "electric" car and not a hybrid. Sold that way too. It is deliberate. The logic is. Only by making gas so expensive that "alternative" fuels can compete, can you force people to buy "alternative" fuels. Like alcohol made from food that takes more energy to grow than you get back in fuel. With massive subsidies YOU pay for. | ||
| Aesquire |
Sifo, it depends on the vehicle if it gets damaged when run dry. High pressure direct injection pumps are the major issue. Most cars will, after a few years parked, might need a seal replaced or such to run good. Tires, battery, some rubber bits with dry rot. I'm sure you know the drill. I can't think of any car before the Tesla that will cost you $40k if you park it and don't do anything to it for 3 weeks. (Message edited by aesquire on February 24, 2012) | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9101874/M inister-praises-plan-to-heat-swimming-pool-from-fi res-of-crematorium.html | ||
| Kenm123t |
Obama spoke of algae based fuel Which some are calling Pond scum. I know a few greenies they are so into it they brag we can run our cars on pond scum. So I asked them HOW LONG TILL WE HAVE A LAWYER Shortage with that Plan? | ||
| Aesquire |
 The idea of using algae to make fuel is not new. If you can genetically engineer better yields, it might just maybe be profitable. ( please use much salt ) Of course there will be objections to GM pond scum getting loose in the wild, a valid worry, and even more objections to the "carbon footprint" of the eventual mega factory complexes needed to make pond scum gasoline for less than $30 a gallon in quantities over a pint at a time. I have zero hope for bio-fuels while the Greenies are in charge. the USAF was told to stop work on bio-jet fuel because it had too high a carbon footprint. ( cleaner in real world pollution, but against the New Religion ) (Message edited by aesquire on February 25, 2012) | ||
| Aesquire |
http://news.yahoo.com/energy-secretary-chu-admits- administration-ok-high-gas-193900713.html Sec. Chu, Prez Obama, and I all agree that we should reduce dependence on foriegn oil. ( I personally doubt they actually feel that way... but still, they say so. ) Chu, Obama, and I all agree we should use less oil, and need alternatives. We disagree, fundamentally, on how. They want to raise prices, until something else, ( they don't really know what ) preferably something cute and fuzzy, I mean renewable and green, can compete on the open market, and displace fossil fuels in our lives. I want a well thought out alternative fuel that can compete with oil on merits and price, without jacking up inflation and making everyone poorer to meet a political agenda. So, instead of forbidding drilling, or pipelines, or refineries, how about offering a "X-Prize" for alternative fuels? Say, off the top of my head, $4 billion, tax free, for the first alternative car gasoline that can be massed produced, transported, and sold, with close to current taxes, at $1.50 a gallon. Or from Jerry Pournelle's blog.. 4. The sum of $10 billion to be paid for construction and maintenance of a solar power satellite system which delivers at least 800 megawatts of electric power to a receiving station or stations in the United States for a period of at least two years and one day. 5. The payments made shall be exempt from all US taxes. | ||
| Sifo |
No one especially in government wishes for that though. Actually, that IS the governments policy. It's on record, they WANT Euro-cost gas. Secretary of Energy. Want a link to him saying exactly that? Johnny gets someone every time he does that.  Sifo, it depends on the vehicle if it gets damaged when run dry. High pressure direct injection pumps are the major issue. That's exactly what all of our buses are. Still never heard of one getting damaged though. They just send the service truck out with a can of fuel and drive it back. The idea of using algae to make fuel is not new. If you can genetically engineer better yields, it might just maybe be profitable. ( please use much salt ) "Profitability" is dependent on it's competition. The need a petroleum crisis to make it happen. They've found that the crisis just won't happen naturally as predicted though, at least not in a time frame that pleases the environ-Nazis. One of the big problems I see with algae is that it is essentially solar power that requires a number of conversions. Some of those conversions also require energy, and none of them are without energy losses. You can only capture so much energy from a square foot of real estate. It's the law! OK your space mirrors could help that. Until then it's the law though. You also have all the problems of finding a suitable site with good sun, water, available land, where you don't have a fox or toad that will be displaced. It's a complete pipe dream in today's energy market though. | ||
| Aesquire |
You are correct. The gathering of diffuse energy, Wind, Solar, etc. has high capital costs and not insignificant ecology issues. We need to cover Texas in solar panels to meet our needs with Solar... Or it's equivalent in square miles and associated storage ( Cover Connecticut in Deep Cycle lead acid batteries ). Doable, but darned expensive, and the ecology issues.... Solar collectors alter the heat moisture balance in an area, by creating shade, or displacing the native ground. Dual use agricultural land can be designed, with livestock grazing between the endless rows of collectors. Deserts are best for Solar. People don't live there. Deserts are fragile ecologies. So we need Superconducting trunk lines to pass the load along, and a rebuilding of the entire electricity system, to accommodate the Electric Car, and you have a big mixed bags of possibilities and liabilities. Same thing with wind. it's expensive, has enviro issues, etc. So, very capital expensive, disruptive, and, for better or for worse, life changing. I don't think diffuse energy collection should be ignored as a possibility, Where it makes economic, and esthetic sense. but let's face it, the history of progress, is one that goes from diffuse to more concentrated forms of power in the hands of man. And the needs of the planet are only going to go up, until the population explosion bursts, and our capacity to feed & shelter them is overwhelmed. Again. ( this has happened before.... ) | ||
| Aesquire |
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/b eltway-confidential/gm-laying-1300-due-low-volt-sa les/406771 Darn. As I have said, the energy storage requirements for a reasonable car require energy density that can at least make a nasty fire. gasoline, battery, capacitor, whatever. The Press's education seems to have no actual class requirement for anything involving science or math.... | ||
| Hootowl |
"the company is cutting Volt manufacturing to meet lower-than-expected demand for the electric cars" Lower than expected by whom? Wishful thinking lefties with their hands in my wallet? | ||
| Bandm |
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/02/1 0563905-volt-production-halted-1300-workers-out-of -work | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
GM and Chrysler need to put all their advertising dollars into engineering and quality. The cinematic over the top commercials are too much. | ||
| Strokizator |
I'm watching TV right now and the Volt commercial is on. "This isn't just the car we wanted to build, it's the America had to build"." It really should say "This isn't just the car Obama made us build, it's the car America won't buy". Obama is on record saying he'll buy one when he leaves office. Yeah, like that elitist will ever drive himself anywhere. | ||
| Court |
We may have to suspend this thread as GM has suspended production of the Volt due to poor sales. Even with up to $10,000 of credits and stupid amounts of federal fund going into the production and sales . . . the people have spoken. There are long waiting lists for:
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| Aesquire |
Brian, I don't think I agree. Kodak, a company once the biggest employer in Rochester, and now, after years of looting by the executives, is bankrupt. Kodak has been demolishing it's factories for years to reduce tax liability, sold off all the profitable bits of the business, ( and the execs getting massive bonuses, then splitting ) and announced it was going to "return to it's core business"... ( a catch phrase that means "sell our stock quick" ) One that every person who actually took photos knew was going to be a boutique small business. Besides the cretins at HQ, Kodak has morons in the advertising dept, and it helped ruin the company. At a time when the company made the best copiers in the business, ( sold that division to Cannon ) and was a serious leader in image science, digital imaging and picture processing, the only ads you ever saw were "true colors" & nostalgia ads. Now I loved beyond reason "Mad Men"'s Carousel ad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHUUyx0d7qw&feature =fvst A brilliant piece where you don't need to know anything about the show to get the full impact. Kodak never got better, or pushed their best stuff, leading to todays disaster for 70+ thousand people. The competition had smart ads, on Discovery channel, selling high priced gear to smart people. Kodak sold old stuff to a shrinking audience, oblivious to the advances in technology they themselves created. GM, etc. NEEDS to advertise smart, often and effectively. OR all we have left is the foreign car companies, and taxpayer supported green cars no one wants. | ||
| Aesquire |
Fyi, the backup mirror for the Hubble Space Telescope was made by Kodak, and can be seen on display at the Smithsonian. http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id =A20010288000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Space_Telescop e Kodak's mirror was near perfect. A co-worker was at PE when they made the one used in Hubble, and they saved $200 by not doing the straightedge tests ( Government contract! ) which would have caught the problem, and is the basic test used by amateure astronomers when grinding their own mirror blanks. that $200 would have saved hundreds of million$. | ||
| Sifo |
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/b eltway-confidential/gm-laying-1300-due-low-volt-sa les/406771
They may eventually have to come to grips with the fact that it is a mediocre product at a premium price. | ||
| Court |
Learning . . I see . . from their new owner. Maybe Erik Buell should have, in retrospect, blamed Harley-Davidson. | ||
| Aesquire |
Those gearboxes are freaking amazing. I have seen the assembly process. A real pity that the first big media blitz on the Volt was the complaint that GM had lied to the press. Overshadowed that gearbox, which is a real trick pony. ( for those who forgot, the car media guys claimed GM told them the Volt was a serial hybrid, like a locomotive, without the gas engine hooked to the wheels... unlike the Prius, a parallel hybrid with both electric and gas pushing the car. GM sorta kinda denied that...then changed course and claimed the stuff they actually are selling was secret and a surprise... ) I admire the tech in the Volt. Looks like another step in making a more efficient car.... but isn't, for political reasons. ( like pimping a Camaro as a family truckster, or a F-450 as an econo-box.... ) Then there is the pure politics thing with currently a $10,000 hit for YOU every time one gets purchased. Will I buy one? No. It fails to meet my perceived needs, which my VW Sportwagen TDI does, including the ability to carry much stuff, handle like a sports car, and get very high mileage. ( in anticipation of this kind of thing... Cassandras are always hated... http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/gas-price-perf idy_633143.html ) I've even hauled a heavy pavillion center pole ( medieval tent pole. 8'+ Wood. Octagonal. longer than the roof . ) a pavilion, ( Canvas, heavy, large ) over a dozen wall poles, & an arsenal of medieval weapons, ( 6 foot pole arms, etc. ) all inside the Sportwagen ( albeit taking up the passenger seat for the center pole, BUT safe from rain ) across 3 US states ( or 6 European countries ) @ 41mpg. A Volt might be able to do that, but for near twice the cost, and not the same mileage. ( price difference depending on nav accessories ) There are a few other cars that might have the same capacity to serve and please my wants, and I'd be glad to hear about them, ( I suspect the Ford Fiesta is a touch small ) but I'm not paying $60k for such a thing, ever, if I can avoid it. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-might-no t-get-his-chance-buy-chevy-volt_633098.html 1. why not buy one now? He's a millionaire. He can park it as an ad and trophy next to the garden the the Park service plants full grown vegetables for shool kids to pick with the First lady. 2. It matters little what he owns, he probably will never drive again, having a lifetime Secret Service detail and armored limo/suv paid for by us. GWB escapes that fate, a little by being an avid Mt. Biker. ( with the fittest security detail, btw ) | ||
| Xb9er |
if the volt was made by toyota I feel it would have been a big seller. Give GM and the other American automakers a chance to get up to speed with the import companies. the import companies have always been 20 years ahead of the American auto companies | ||
| Court |
>>>>Give GM and the other American automakers a chance to get up to speed with the import companies. Let me tell you the problem with that. Go back . . rewrite it . . . and loose the ridiculous word "GIVE". Try wrapping your mind around this "When the American companies once again EARN our trust and business". It can be done. I'm watching a motorcycle company that not only didn't get anything "given" to it but had a big frickin' corporate boot heel placed on it. Yep, there was some folks were took the "not only are we not going to support them, we're going to actively interfere and impede". But . . in the America I know and love . . . good people thirst for this kind of adversity . . . meet it and beat it head on. It's this "somebody owes me a cell phone" . . "somebody owes me an Ivy League education" . . ."I don't want to work and get my own job so appoint me to a federally funded agency" . . .mentally that has screwed us into our current position. We are so coddled, protected and hooked on the sugar water of other peoples money that we've even had our manufacturing dominance shoved down our throats. When we can once again say "no problem" rather than "oh, but look at all the problems" we can get back to doing amazing things like the folks who built aircraft at the rate of about 1 every 3 days during WWII. Americans are smart, resourceful and persevering people. The current "oh woe is me" whining is not our style. Homeostasis, since our countries origin, has been our saving grace. Americans are accepting people to a point. But once that point is reached they rebel and do what's right. Some folks, I've a friend among their number, have tired of the "lazy American" syndrome and are starting to fight back. Watch for the small to rise and the mighty to tumble. A new day is not far away and the whole "gimme, gimme, gimme" will be a chapter in our history. >>>the import companies have always been 20 years ahead of the American auto companies That's inaccurate. What you meant to say was that no company, except American firms, were burdened with so many ridiculously contrived rules and regulations. Imagine, even a great company like Toyota, if they'd had to compete on a level playing field and pay UAW wages and benefits. (Message edited by court on March 04, 2012) (Message edited by court on March 04, 2012) | ||
| Aesquire |
the import companies have always been 20 years ahead of the American auto companies Not so much. After WW2 ( you might have seen it on tv ) the industry in Europe and Japan was pretty much gone. Lots and lots of money went from here, to there, to help get them back on their feet. And NOT for tribute, as happened in the past. ( American Exceptionalism ) But After the War, American Industry tried to go back to the old ways, while ignoring some of the ideas that made the Industrial explosion here work, mostly from the Airplane Industry. So people like Deming were ignored, and so...went where their talents were appreciated, and the rest, as they say is History. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming In Japan, the 3 biggest influential western individuals are Perry, MacArthur, and Deming. I studied under one of Deming's disciples, who did in China what Deming did in Japan. He warned us about China. And that Japan would fade, in comparison. And I then, in turn, tried, very hard to teach companies SPC and to get them to adopt methods, not religions. ( like TQM ) I'm no longer in that business... maybe I should go back? | ||
| Aesquire |
I just realized. My relation to Deming is the same as Barack Obama's to Alinsky. ( he studied under Alinsky's disciples ) Makes sense of some of our disagreements.......... | ||
| Moxnix |
Two volumes of Scherkenbach on my office bookshelf. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Volt production halted......... http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/4/2843549/chevy-vol t-production-stop-poor-sales-gm | ||
| Glitch |
Volt production halted......... Guess they couldn't even pay people to buy them. I like how the market STILL decided the fate of an unwanted product, even with socialist intervention. | ||
| Court |
Yeah . . . and with the GOVERNMENT CONTRIBUTION coming out to $250,000 per car.
Obama . . you just decide which part of this guy to be ashamed about on any given day. | ||
| Hootowl |
I think Obama is doing a wonderful job of keeping his campaign promise to fundamentally transform America.  |
